Pictures of my "easy to do" Charger from HLPAG

[cudaken]

 Tony all so all most bought a Charger from them Sean68charger.

                 It will be saved

                                 Ken

[DBR/T]

Hey man, dont feel too bad, I also bought a car from HLPAG about 2 months ago. I didnt know anything bad about them either. I just found this site about a week ago. I was shocked when I saw my car the first time, but luckily I drove there to see it in person before I bought it. It was not near what they said it was either, I was really ticked off after driving 5 hours to get there. I offered them half of their asking price, they refused, and I left. I talked to them a few days later and they threw in a bunch of parts that were missing and lowered the price 2500.00 and I went back and brought it home. Its not near as bad as yours though. But I would agree with the other guys in that it would be a shame to junk yours. I hate to see any of them junked even though sometimes its not possible to save them. I pray your mess gets straightened out somehow. It sucks when you get screwed like that.  Dale   

[AirborneSilva]

I don't know if they have parts you can use, but if you look at what they show in the pics,   they have frame rails and front clips. Might be worth a try.

http://www.texasacres.com/parts/metal.html

Thank you for the link, I may be talking to them when the time is right. 

[AirborneSilva]

What I meant by write it off,was to get your money back,and get a better car! Tony, I have fixed some really rusty cars, over the years. But all B.S. aside, I cut up two 69 R/T SE Chargers,that werent as bad as that car that they sold you! One of them was a trpple black electric sunroof car! Where are you from,because I get calls all the time about cars for sale! If you want another body, I can get a hold of you if something decent comes up! Last year, I bought three Mopars,I bought a 68 Charger roller,for $100.00,I bought a 70 R/T Challenger,383,4 speed(turn kry car with a non matching,rebuilt 383,and an 18 spline Hemi trans) solid car for 5 grand,and it came with a truck load of extra parts,and another 68 Charger complete solid driver for 4 grand.There are still lots of good deals left out there!As far as Ken helping you out, the point I was trying to make,is that if you do all that work,even if Ken gives you a huge break,you will still have more into that car than it will be worth!If the AG cant do something for you than get a lawyer,and take him to court!Even if all you get out of him is a better car!

Sent you a PM

[AirborneSilva]

Tony, have you been looking for parts, subframe with tail light panel like I posted. Contact the yard and see if you can get one. Better be looking, 69/70 (could use) are going fast.

                                                           Ken

No I haven't, I have kinda put this on the back burner until I know what is going to happen with the AG....

[AirborneSilva]

hey tony, I know it does not make a difference, but i sent them an email telling them what scumbags they for jacking you like that.

Truly sad.   I don't know how ebay still lets them sell cars.   maybe nobody complains.   The usually F everyone, but not usually as bad as they got you.   They always lie about thier cars, but they are usually clever enough with the wording to kinda sorta leave themselves an out.   But I think you will get them this time.   bold face lies.

and unlike the previous guy who sued and got no money from the bodyshop, you will get money from them.   They certianly have it.   how could they not?   they drag cars in that they probably got for free and filp them for 5k each.

Thank you, I'm sure it went in one ear and out the other - or they probably got a good laugh outta it.  People like that think it's funny when they stick it to someone (so I'm sure they are laughing good and loud  )

[AirborneSilva]

i nearly bought a charger from those loosers , just imagine seeing the stunning photos they sent me over the net then waiting 3 months for it to arrive hear in britain and finding it in that condition, man i`d want to kill someone
i am so glad i went with the charger i got

Consider yourself lucky!!!!

[AirborneSilva]

Hey man, dont feel too bad, I also bought a car from HLPAG about 2 months ago. I didnt know anything bad about them either. I just found this site about a week ago. I was shocked when I saw my car the first time, but luckily I drove there to see it in person before I bought it. It was not near what they said it was either, I was really ticked off after driving 5 hours to get there. I offered them half of their asking price, they refused, and I left. I talked to them a few days later and they threw in a bunch of parts that were missing and lowered the price 2500.00 and I went back and brought it home. Its not near as bad as yours though. But I would agree with the other guys in that it would be a shame to junk yours. I hate to see any of them junked even though sometimes its not possible to save them. I pray your mess gets straightened out somehow. It sucks when you get screwed like that.   Dale     

I wish I could of gone to look at the one I bought but I lived in Hawaii at the time, I'm now in S. Arizona so it would have been easier to get there but I was on a budget and they got every bit of that budget plus a bit extra  I'm glad you were able to work somthing out, hopefully the AG will get something done for me as well, then I can get Ken out here to help me save this poor thing.....

[cudaken]

 Tony, looks like you where posting to your self there buddy? I would go away and contact that yard and let them konw what you are looking for. From the look of there stock they don't cut them like  did mine.

                                                 Ken

[41husk]

Ken, is that 40 hours like 45 minutes stripping time??? sorry I couldn't resist

[AirborneSilva]

Tony, looks like you where posting to your self there buddy? I would go away and contact that yard and let them konw what you are looking for. From the look of there stock they don't cut them like   did mine.

                                                                         Ken

Yeah I talk to myself all the time  the wife and dog don't listen to me so I have to talk to someone  but I felt the need to answer some of the posts people put up.  I will see about sending that yard an e-mail and let them know what I'm looking for (what exactly was that again  ), I hope that things will get settled with HLPAG soon because the wife will not let me spend a penny until after we know what the AG says....

[41husk]

What is the AG ?

[Blown70]

What is the AG ?

Attorney General....


TOm

[nascarxx29]

I personally would want a straight rust free body ,To build from.

[AirborneSilva]

I personally would want a straight rust free body ,To build from.

can't argue with that but what was described to me and what I got were two different things. 

[Mike DC]

One more opinion for the HLPAG car:

I think it greatly depends on what you want out of this.  
Do you want a totally restored Charger with an original-looking interior & nice bodywork?   If so, then it's not realistic to make it from that baseline.   Certainly not as your first Charger restoration.   I also vote to sell it before a $5K mistake turns into a $20K mistake and you're still not done.  

Trying to pay a shop to build that car could push you into $25K of investment into a car that still doesn't even run.   At which point, your mind will start to wander back to right now . . . "if I had just sold it back then, I wouldn't have gotten $5K back but I might have gotten burned for as little as $2-3000 after selling the car & parts . . . man, I've spent that much just on the small stuff for this car during the last couple of years . . . but after a certain point I had gone too far with this car to bail out anymore . . ."

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Happiest future scenario for that car?

I think it's salvageable for a guy who has been re-skinning old cars for years and doesn't care about the specifics right now.   He might take it, hang some new rails & skins on it, and just make a fun race car out of it.   Forget the interior, put hot drivetrain in it, and move on.  
Then 10 years from now (and when a lot more reproduction parts are being produced for Chargers), he might sell it to someone who looks at the VIN and decides to take it all the way back to stock R/T condition.   Happy ending.

It might happen but this is not what you bought the car for.   And the investment from those two owners that I just dreamed up would probably still be more, TOTAL, than the car is worth.   Do you get my drift?   Even the ideal happy ending isn't truly cost-effective.   It's just spreading the cost out to two smaller money-losers instead of one BIG one.

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You bought this car to get a restorable Charger R/T street car, and you didn't get one by any reasonable yardstick.   You've gotta either change your goals & plans for the car or sell it and build another one.   I hate to be so blunt with your dreams, but I'm really trying to help.

[AirborneSilva]

One more opinion for the HLPAG car:

I think it greatly depends on what you want out of this.  
Do you want a totally restored Charger with an original-looking interior & nice bodywork?   If so, then it's not realistic to make it from that baseline.   Certainly not as your first Charger restoration.   I also vote to sell it before a $5K mistake turns into a $20K mistake and you're still not done.  

Trying to pay a shop to build that car could push you into $25K of investment into a car that still doesn't even run.   At which point, your mind will start to wander back to right now . . . "if I had just sold it back then, I wouldn't have gotten $5K back but I might have gotten burned for as little as $2-3000 after selling the car & parts . . . man, I've spent that much just on the small stuff for this car during the last couple of years . . . but after a certain point I had gone too far with this car to bail out anymore . . ."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Happiest future scenario for that car?

I think it's salvageable for a guy who has been re-skinning old cars for years and doesn't care about the specifics right now.   He might take it, hang some new rails & skins on it, and just make a fun race car out of it.   Forget the interior, put hot drivetrain in it, and move on.  
Then 10 years from now (and when a lot more reproduction parts are being produced for Chargers), he might sell it to someone who looks at the VIN and decides to take it all the way back to stock R/T condition.   Happy ending.

It might happen but this is not what you bought the car for.   And the investment from those two owners that I just dreamed up would probably still be more, TOTAL, than the car is worth.   Do you get my drift?   Even the ideal happy ending isn't truly cost-effective.   It's just spreading the cost out to two smaller money-losers instead of one BIG one.

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You bought this car to get a restorable Charger R/T street car, and you didn't get one by any reasonable yardstick.   You've gotta either change your goals & plans for the car or sell it and build another one.   I hate to be so blunt with your dreams, but I'm really trying to help.

I hear ya, but can you tell me how to get outta the car without losing most of my $6K invested ($5K for car and $1K for shipping)?  I will be doing most of the work on the car myself, yeah this is my first restoration and yeah I know, talk about jumping in feet first but as you know it wasn't suppose to be this deep...

[chargervert]

That would be the perfect car to pro street,tub it and four link it! You won't have to cut much out,its already gone!

[AirborneSilva]

That would be the perfect car to pro street,tub it and four link it! You won't have to cut much out,its already gone!

Yeah you're right, but I REALLY want a car to restore and street it....  Man this is getting depressing 

[CB]

Yeah you're right, but I REALLY want a car to restore and street it.... Man this is getting depressing

I feel sorry for ,getting screwed that way. Hope all turns out well. Good luck.

[Mike DC]

Silva,
What did you really want to do with this project in the first place?   Do you want a stock R/T driver?   A mildly modified one?   A General Lee?  And is this your first experience with a Charger and your first heavy restoration?

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I'm asking because of the principle of stock vs. modified parts prices.   Most novices in the old-car world walk into a project with the notion that rebuilding a car/part to factory-stock condition is cheaper & easier than making any modifications.   They don't realize that this is getting less true every year.

The components of these cars are getting really old & outdated.   The factory designed them to last 3-4 years.   That's how long the average first owner kept a car in 1969 and they didn't care about resale in those days.   Get it?   The factory didn't really design a 1969 Charger to last any longer than the early 1970s.   So trying to keep a car "stock" often doesn't really save you any money over just modifying it these days.

Example:
Of course it costs hundreds of dollars to do a whole custom instrument cluster with modern guages & switches . . . but you should realize that you WILL also spend several hundred dollars rebuilding your factory stock one to look & work like it should in the first place.   And the modified one will take less searching for old parts & dealing with refurbishment methods that only "sorta" make things as good as new.   In my experience, the restoration industry has a hell of a lot more concern for winning show trophies than it does just making the parts continue to work for years to come.

The old car magazine writers refer to this issue as the coming "street-rodification of musclecars."

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What I'm saying is that although it would cost a TON of money to fix the car you bought, you should realize that it was gonna cost a TON of money to buy any Charger for less than $10K and make it into a nice driving one.   Nobody sinks $30K into one of these cars just to show off their wallets.   We all do it to get the cars working right in the long-term.

.

[BB1]

Though about talking to a body shop school? If they're looking for a final exam, let them tackle your Charger.

It would be a lot easier, (in my uneducated bodyman experience) to cut the back end off and find a donner back end.

[Mike DC]

It would be a lot easier, (in my uneducated bodyman experience) to cut the back end off and find a donner back end.

Yeah, but at that point the donor body is almost always gonna be better than the one being fixed.  I wouldn't cut up a decent 318 Charger body to try to save an R/T that's already gone.  I'd rather build the 318 Charger in that case. 

If I needed framerails for a Charger R/T then I'd cut them out of something else.  There are still lots of B-bodies out there that aren't gonna be saved and the framerails & floors are the same on all of them.  I'd hack up somebody's Satellite parts-car with rusty floorpans.

.

[cudaken]

 Tony, I would do the Charger in steps but I would not start out with the goal or restoring the Charger to new shape. They are right to a point, restoring any car is a losing proposition unless it is a high dollar car like a Hemi Daytona and you get into it real cheap, say $20,000.00. I have seen rust free bodys cost well over $40,000.00 to restore.

But, you need to understand what a restoration is. It is taking out every nut, bolt, clip, and replacing them. Flip the car up side down and detal every inch of the car. Including parts that no one will ever see again. I have seen the under side of the package tray detailed? Got to make sure the chauk marks where there or some happy sh-t like that. Restoration is like talking to God, and living to tell the tell.

My thinking is you need to do one like mine. I call them street peelers. Good looking car, solid and fun to drive. My floor pan is not pretty, but no rust holes. Springs work well, but not detailed, gas tank does not leak and is black not restored. Brakes and hard replaced but not painted and detailed.  Body would look good, but there would be some small flaws that most people would not see. You getting the idea Tony. My Charger was done that way, and little at a time.

With you doing some of the work, cost of seats, engine trans paint and body you should with carefull shopping get by with $20,000.00. Get her on the road around $15,000.00.

Most of the rust your Charger has is normal where I live. Rear tail panel and frame rails only added around $1500.00 to $2000.00 depending on what you pay for the parts.

  I will call you later, maybe yet today.

By the way, before any nah sayers say it can not be done, I have my Charger Title that says it can be. Want to bet yor car?

                              Cuda Ken

PS, mine broke in half from rust just like Tonys.

[AirborneSilva]

Ken, thanks and you are right, my verbage is wrong.  I want to build this car to street it, not for show.  I just want a safe reliable 69 Charger R/T, I do not want to "restore" it from the ground up.  this is not a numbers matching car and I will want to add A/C to it, I'm not sure if I'm even going to paint it original color either.  As our MTV generation would say, my bad.  I have heard that there are different degrees of "restoration" and I certainly was not going for any high degree, midle of the road is fine since I will not be building this to sale or show, just to enjoy is all.....