Cam/torque converter recommendation needed for 493

[Ranman69SE]

Ron, I am hoping you will offer your invaluable advice for suggesting a cam & tq. converter.  I am building a 493 and have read and re-read all previous posts regarding the best combination of goodies.  This is what I have started and will be putting together:

Holly 850 DP
Edelbrock Perf. RPM (unless I can find an SD)
Edelbrock RPM heads (tweaked for improved flow)
TTI 2in. headers, 3in. X-pipe exhaust
12cc dished forged pistons
Zero-decked block

I am hoping to build a strong street machine that might see the track once in a while.  I want to run a solid flat tappet cam and match it to the right torque conv..  You had previously suggested a custom grind to another member, and I would love it if you could do the same for me.  You had also recommended a Turbo Action 10 (tight) to someone with a similar build, is that still a good choice or is there something better?  I like the idea of a stock-feeling converter that doesn't slip excessively during around-town driving, but will allow the engine to spool up when hammered.  I've only had 4-speed cars before this one, and the only time I've been in a car with a high-stall converter, it felt and sounded like driving with the parking brake on!  I want to avoid that if I can.  I will be keeping my 3.23 SG to start with, and will be running a 28in rear tire.

I am currently running a Comp XE268h in a Pontiac 389 and I love it.  Good low-end grunt, nice lope at idle, and will pull to 6000.  I would like similar characteristics with the 493, nothing too radical.  I like the idea of a custom grind, specific for a Mopar motor. 

Also, do you think I should use studs on the mains?

Sincere thanks!

Randy

p.s. Can you get O'Keefe's Extra Old Stock in Ottawa? (My beer of choice when North of the Border, in B.C.)

[firefighter3931]

Hi Randy, welcome to the board. 

Couple of questions ;

(1) will you be keeping the 3.23 gears or will you upgrade later ?
(2) does the car have power brakes ? It makes a difference with regard to cam selection 
(3) How much racing are you planning to do ?

Fwiw ; The street dominator is a much better choice and is available brand new from several vendors Holley pn 300-14  The RPM is an excellent dual plane intake but with a stroker you will allready have tons of torque and you want it to breath well up top....The SD is the right choice, inmo.

The rest of the parts look fine....it looks very close Steve's build that i specced out a few years ago. 



Ron


Ps. Yep, O'Keefes is still available here but i prefer Alexander Keith's Premium ale. Try it next time you're in the great white north....you won't be disappointed. 

[john108]

Ron
Please excuse my 2 cents but the plans I am hoping to follow are very similar to Randy's.
Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to think that a single plane inlet manifold was for engines runnung mostly in the higher RPM ranges and the dual plane (better for street) spread the torque better across a wider range along with the LSA 112 cam, but I am probably remembering wrong.
John

[firefighter3931]

Ron
Please excuse my 2 cents but the plans I am hoping to follow are very similar to Randy's.
Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to think that a single plane inlet manifold was for engines runnung mostly in the higher RPM ranges and the dual plane (better for street) spread the torque better across a wider range along with the LSA 112 cam, but I am probably remembering wrong.
John

John, your thinking is correct with respect to a 440....once you stroke the engine, everything changes....dramaticly. A stroker doesn't need any help with bottom end power....in fact a single plane will help because it takes some of that torque away and makes it a little easier to hook up on the street. Switching from a single plane to a dual plane means your just moving the powerband around as you allready know. On a stroker that allready has killer torque you don't need to help it with a dual plane intake manifold. You also don't want to choke it off up top either.


Ron

[Ranman69SE]

Ron,

Yes, I will be keeping the 3.23's initially just to see how it runs around town, which is what I'll be doing mostly, along with some highway cruising.  As far as racing goes, that is a big question mark. I've never run a car on the track (embarrassed to say) but I'm thinking this one would be a good one to run.  If I get the bug, and want to clock faster times, I will obviously want to change gears.  Also, I do not have power brakes, so vacuum won't be an issue (just need enough to close the headlight covers  )
John, thanks for asking a pertinent question regarding dual plane vs. single plane, my assumptions were the same as yours.  Ron, will a drop-base air cleaner work with the SD and still allow the hood to close?

I followed your advice to Steve for this motor.  Did he ever respond with the results? 

I'm assuming that my build is going to be similar to many other members who have, or will do the same with their 440's.  I know I speak for many, when I say how much I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.  This is the last car that I will be able to put together for a while, as I have three daughters in braces and college will sneak up faster than I expect.  If I can get it right the first time, it will save precious time and money (and keep the wife happy!).

Randy

[firefighter3931]

I followed your advice to Steve for this motor.  Did he ever respond with the results? 

Yep, he did respond...here's a quote :

"All the hype I have been hearing about BB strokers, well to put it in simple terms, I just about $hit myself the first time I throttled it. This beast will absolutly grab you by the seat of your pants and pin you there until you let up! The bite of this monster will definitly back up it's bark! "


Here's the thread complete with Video of the breakin.....the video link still works 1.5 years later. 


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13148.msg151206.html#msg151206


As for yours i would spec it out with a milder cam so that it works well with the 3.23 gearing. You will also be able to run a smaller converter which will be more street friendly with a tall tire and 3.23's.....that will keep trans temps in the happy zone. 

What type of cam....solid or hydraulic ? My preference is for a solid flat tappet with an adjustable valvetrain. 


Ron

[Ranman69SE]

I definitely want to go solid flat tappet, and will use adjustable rockers (good excuse to get out of the house "Honey, I have to go adjust the valves!").  I thought about solid roller, to avoid the recent oil issues, and to avoid burning my new headers during break-in, but I have to at least try to maintain some sort of budget    I like your idea of a milder cam with a good streetable converter.

Great video, and oh-so-sweet sounding motor!  More members need to post videos of their cars in action.

R.

[firefighter3931]

Cool....i like solid cams. 

I would go with the 512ci kit....the extra cubes will help especially with 3.23 gears. Torque rules, especially on the street. 

Lemme mull it over and i'll post a suggestion list for you to look at. 

The cam will be a  custom grind. 



Ron

[Ranman69SE]

Mull away, my good man!  And thanks.

Not sure if it is going to make a big difference but I am committed to 493 cubic inches (parts have already been ordered).

Also, would you stud the main caps?

R.

[firefighter3931]

Ok Randy, here's what i came up with ;

The 493 is fine....changes the cam profile a bit from say a 512....both make killer torque. 

The build will be basicly the same as Steve's....just copy it and you will be fine. There are a couple of deviations you can use that won't hurt power output and save a few $$

(1) heads ; the RPM e-heads are fine....just have them inspected for valve guide clearance and a 3 angle valvejob.
(2) rocker arms ; the crane ductile iron 1.5:1 ratio rockers are bulletproof and all you need for a build like this. Much more economical than a full roller rocker arm.
(3) torque converter ; a good 11in Hemi "street" converter from Turbo Action is all you need and is well matched to the cam and 3.23 gears.

(4) the Cam ; this is a custom grind that you will have to order from Comp Cams. It is smaller than the stick in Steve's engine because you won't be running 4.10 gears and a 3500 stall. This will idle pretty nice and be easy to tune.....and make lotsa torque ! 

intake lobe # 6057/ exhaust lobe # 6059 with a 112* LSA (lobe seperation angle)

On paper it will look like this :

282*/290* advertised duration
244*/252* @ .050 valve lift
.521/.542 lift
112* lsa

* order the cam with a 3 bolt core....much better than a single bolt.

Lifters ; i would use the Howards lifters with pressure oiling. These have a hole in the lifter face that pressure feeds the cam lobes as opposed to the traditional splash lubrication that stock engine's use. This new technology basicly keeps the cam well lubricated at lower engine speeds such as idleing in traffic. There's no good reason not to use them. 

Here's a link & description of the EDM lifters :

http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=91718



Any questions feel free to ask....



Ron

[Ranman69SE]

PERFECT!  Ron, this is killer.  I now feel like I am putting together a proven combo, not throwing a bunch of stuff together and hoping it works.  I'm glad you picked up on my need for a more streetable car and not a quarter mile monster.

I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road (pun ) but for for now I'm off and running.  Sincere gratitude 

R.

p.s. Any need to strengthen the bottom end in any way?

[firefighter3931]

PERFECT!  Ron, this is killer.  I now feel like I am putting together a proven combo, not throwing a bunch of stuff together and hoping it works.  I'm glad you picked up on my need for a more streetable car and not a quarter mile monster.

I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road (pun ) but for for now I'm off and running.  Sincere gratitude 

R.

p.s. Any need to strengthen the bottom end in any way?

Randy, you're welcome. I'm sure you'll be quite pleased with this engine combo. 

On the bottom end.....use the ARP studs and have it line bored. The stock main caps will be fine. 



Ron