69 charger electrical questions

[69chargeryeehaa]

so my new (to me) 69 charger r/t has the typical electrical woes, and i'd just like to get some advice.

here's the issues,
1..headlights dim at idle; amp meter reads -10, more with brakes on
2. when headlights are on, guages (all of them) read 1/8 more (higher)
3. brakes alone (lights) seem to pull alot of current.
4. amp meter reads - at idle with no lights on, goes to + when you drive, or at idle not in gear (idle speed 650 in gear).

so my plans were to put in a new hi/low switch, new regulator (in engine compartment, is there another one? dash?), and to install headlight relays, and convert the rear bulbs to LED.  thoughts??

also, my parking lamps in the front turn off with the headlights, that normal? i thought that was for the 68's?  oh, one more thing, what's the correct bulb for the rear inner parking bulbs?

[Charger-Bodie]

thats all pretty much normal

[Nacho-RT74]

you are on right and normal stuff ( except for the higer reading with beams on, never did happen to me ). Engine bay regulator is the only one. Dash stuff is limiter to feed gauges with 5 volts, form original 12 vols source. Stock alts normally starts to charger GOOD on around 1000 RPMs.

some tips to think.
-Change smaller pulley alt will give you better RPMs response from alt.
-Clean all terminals at bulkhead. Mostly sure if you unplug bulkhead harnesses plug will find the alt wire and batt wire ( HEAVIER black and red wires ) cavities burnt.
-Relay will save SOME of the bulkhead terminals and switches ( floor and cluster ) from the beams load, BUT alt will be still same unable to feed all the car. You will get a wrong reading on ammeter  if you take the relay source from batt. To get right reading will need to be feeded from alt stud. Anyway, the load will be still on charging net, coming or going from alt to batt or backwards, depending of RPMs. Dimming wil be just more less saved, but not definitelly if you don't have complete charge on batt.
-Led's on rear YES will be definitelly a good idea.
-yes, 68 parkings turns off on 68 with beams on. 69 should be keep on... MAYBE Cluster lights switch was replaced with 68 switch instead 69
-Right number on inner rear bulbs. has been posted several times but never keep on mind since I don't have 69/70 LOL. Just remember is single filament small bulb that only works with parkings not brakes.

-Some tips to make a good upgrade:
Run from this alt, single field alt what mostly sure is actually the one on your car:


Up to this, lates 70 model, double field alt, with wider stator and more output. starting to charge from low iddle.


Notice this eraliers/mids 70 alt ( also double field )


Is almost same back that the lates 70s, BUT NOTICE ON SIDES... stator is hidden by housings on lates, and visible on earliers. My advice, go with lates. ANY lates 70 will give you more output, even at low iddle

-Run parallel wires from bat and alt stud up ammeter throught firewall with a gromet, to save original wiring from extra load.
-With newer alt you have to modify too ( choose your option )
           -Ground one of the alt brushes/fields to keep same stock mechanical regulator and wiring
           -Change to old fashion reg but internally electronic upgraded. Will keep same wiring and need also ground one of the brushes/fields.
           -Upgrade with 70s electronic regulator, will need slight wire mods, run a new wire and ad the regulator plug.

[69chargeryeehaa]

wow, thankyou for that info Nacho for taking the time to type that out.   

just to clarify, the guages read 1/8 too high when either the parking or headlights are on, otherwise they read fine.  That's the one that's got me stumped.

[Plumcrazy]

just to clarify, the guages read 1/8 too high when either the parking or headlights are on, otherwise they read fine.  That's the one that's got me stumped.

The illumination lights for the gauges and the voltage limiter for the gauges both ground through the cluster housing.  Make sure the cluster housing is well grounded.

[Steve P.]

The answers to yours and everyone else's electrical woes are right here. Open the link and get ready to do some reading.. This is a fantastic site.   Better grab a few beers and take a good leak before starting to read it. Once you get started it may be hard to take a break from.. 

www.madelectrical.com

[Nacho-RT74]

I HATE MADELECTRICAL ammeter wiring mod, beside is not totally true what they say there, just partially.

[Steve P.]

They have many great reads/fixes on there. Not just the amp. gauge by-pass.  What I was aiming at was the dim headlight fix. 

What don't you agree with on the amp. gauge mod??

[Nacho-RT74]

1-ammeter is more real, accutate and INSTANT TEST. If you have a slight and constant power drain somewhere, Volt won't read it that accurate, and when read it will be probably too late.

2-they state with that mod the splice is now outside the car on starter relay stud WHAT IS NOT TRUE. Main splice IS STILL inside the car, between ammeter and bulkhead, on black wire what feeds fusebox, ignition key ( then of course all the car ) and headlights. That wire is the one that feeds everything inside AND OUTSIDE . With that mod you are only changing the alt and batt direct charging point to outside the car. That is usefull JUST when batt is discharged and you keep the engine spining for charge purpouse, so is PARTIALLY true. Car still needs and use the power route inside the cab. So when car needs power somewhere, no matter where comes from ( alt or batt ) then will be running inside the car thought the wires they state to modify. If you check diagram on second page of amm bypass, redwire between 16 gauge fuselink and splice where join the amm wires IS UNUSEFULL. You won't need that wire because BLACK WIRE where main splice it is is SIMPLY ENOUGH. Who cares if you have double wire ( red and black ) inside the cab to feed that splice if the input filter IT IS A 16 gauge FUSELINK ? those two wires tied to fuselink lis like link a 6 or 8 gauge wire to a 16 fuselink. Is simply not logical. I mean that wire won't hurt anything but is out of context. I better simply eliminate it.

The problem on Mopars are weak points at bulkhead and non charge at iddle... not even low amper alts. Iddle charging problem is what makes overheat  everything, with constant lown and high outputs levels instead an average load.

In fact with stock low amp alts IF THEY CHARGE AT IDDLE bulkhead never would suffer and would it be enough because alt constantly charging will get an average load, without peaks when press gas pedal ( just with non A/C cars ).

tip from my experience:

I changed to a lates 70s alt, unsure about amp output but mostly sure is around 70-80. Since that change and parallel wires upgrade NEVER EVER have had max Charge on ammeter... Why is that ? because alt is able to FEED even ON IDDLE, so batt never got discharge, only on cranking moment when start, and then ammeter keeps above teh center line around 10 minutes, but just around  1/5 above. Then get center and keeps there. Just at night, with A/C on mid or high speed, halogen beams and brakes pressed on a traffic light is when the ammeter barely reads discharge

[Steve P.]

Amp meter is a right now and constant test. As is a volt meter. Problem with an amp. meter is that it must be hooked up between the alt./bat. terminal and everything else. This means running everything the alt. is putting our into your dash and through a gauge inside the closed cab.  I realize we have full battery power in the fuse box. I don't believe our old cars have very good fuse boxes either.
If they made a remote amp. gauge that didn't have to send power an extra 15 feet in and out of the cab I would buy it. The fact that all alt. power is pushed through 10 - 15 feet of wire and some lousy connections is enough reason for me to get rid of it.

They bypass the dash amp gauge as the gauge itself has been prone to burning up. They even show a pic. of a burned gauge in a dash. 

My life and my car are worth one hell of allot more to me than an Amp gauge. Especially when a volt gauge will suffice.

[Nacho-RT74]

They bypass the dash amp gauge as the gauge itself has been prone to burning up. They even show a pic. of a burned gauge in a dash. 

as I told, overheat happens because you don't have a good average load. when you save from that THE REST will be fine. Truste me when I say that I'm running EVERYTING ON CAR and IN FACT INCLUDING RELAYS TO BEAMS AND A/C BLOWER HOOKED TO AMMETER STUD inside the cab, not on engine bay and AMMETER IS COLD on back of cluster. and I live in a tropical country so you can think I USE the A/C.

Anyway since I'm still testing the Relays stuff inside the cab hooked on ammeter stud because is still a new upgrade, I'm still continuouslly checking heat on ammeter. I have 6 relays on car everyone inside the cab. With relays inside the cab I'm saving from heat, rust, water, oil and dust on relays prongs. Also a clean engine bay look.

Relays I'm using are:
2 on driver kick panel area to beams.
2 on A/C control area to heater speed and max A/C speed
2 on Heater box area to A/C low and mid speed

All feeded with a 12 gauge wire runing from side to side of dash frame, spliced on every point of relays and hooked on black side of ammeter stud with a fuse link too.

Discontinued lines on diagram are the original runing wires on plugs, I re-routed to relays plugs. Then used a same color wire to go back from relay to original plug. no one wire cut.

[Steve P.]

Natcho, I am not looking for an argument. You can wire your car any way you want. It is yours..  I am not an electrician, nor did I sleep at the Holiday Inn last night. BUT everything I read on the site makes perfect sense to me.   

[Nacho-RT74]

yeah I know... I had this opinion feedback with dkn1997 once and everything is perfect, I'm just giving another option to keep everything working like stock but upgraded in fact with Mopar parts. The extra parallel wires are a MaMopar solution used on cars with towing package and more than 60 amps alts.

BRW added a diagram for a while you where posting

[Steve P.]

I believe the second or parallel wires will carry more amps. with less resistance. Less resistance = less heat.

[Nacho-RT74]

yeah, that's why I made it. Did run from alt stud and bat ( really relay stud ) up to ammeter

[71_deputy]

Natcho is mostly right.

being at this for over 25 years in mopars with the problems.

when I restored the Deputy I rewired all the main heavy power wires from the alt Thur the bulkhead- (used double the size of wire than the normal wire)
not Thur the harness connector but Thur a hole with a heavy grommet ( no splice ) to the amp meter stud- left the existing wire on the same stub to feed the dash wiring like normal- then the other stud a heavy wire back Thur the same grommet to the starter relay with a fusible link.  amp meter is cool to the touch!!!

headlights are power via relays- 20 amp fuse- back to the alt stud.  I run a decent radio system right from the main fuse box and never yet had I have a problem this way!!!!!


note: ma mopar used this same way for taxi's and police due to the problems at the bulkhead connectors and still used the standard amp meter in the dashes!!!

John Mac

[69chargeryeehaa]

just to clarify, the guages read 1/8 too high when either the parking or headlights are on, otherwise they read fine.  That's the one that's got me stumped.

The illumination lights for the gauges and the voltage limiter for the gauges both ground through the cluster housing.  Make sure the cluster housing is well grounded.

i've checked the ground, and it's fine, everything works, the ONLY issue i have now is that when i turn on the lights (either parking or headlights), the guages read higher