Shooting in downtown SLC mall

[GTX]

Have you guys heard about the shooting here tonight?

It's in Trolley Square Mall which is a boutique mall built in the old trolley barns here in town. A bunch of stores and restaurants of course.

Anyway, the facts aren't in yet but apparently some guy walked in ala Columbine style ( trench coat, shotgun and backpack of ammo) with a shotgun and began shooting. It looks right now from very preliminary reports on tv to be about 5-10 dead including the shooter and more hospitalized. He just walked around shooting and reloading and there were reports of as many as 30 rounds shot.
They don't know if the shooter offed himself but I suspect it was one of the cops they said came in right after it began.


Weird thing is that we were going to go there and eat either at the Hard Rock or the Desert Edge bar and grill.   We go down there fairly often.
We decided to hang out at home instead.....guess it's a good thing maybe.


Maybe Charger Fan or one of the other locals will have some other news? 
We'll see what set the psycho off maybe. My brother in law is SWAT for County Sheriff here, maybe he knows.

[ChargerSG]

A dude who does things like that deserves to get shoot by the cops, if he survive i hope they fry him

[Shakey]

 

[Ponch ®]

that's why I live in L.A....less violence.

[Charger_Fan]

That was all over the local radio news this morning.
Here's one of many links for anyone interested; http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_044105216.html

There's sure no shortage of whacko's these days.

[Brock Samson]

18 yr old...  damn!

[d72hemi]

I thought moving to UT would have been safer than So Cal. All I have heard was in online news pages. I beleive there is 5 dead. At least the shooter is no longer walking around.

Ian

[Charger1973]

 

[jordyjim]

gta its worlwide news! ime in the uk and i have heard about it..jim

[Jon Smith]

just been posted on moparts that one of the victims was the daughter of one of the mopars at the strip organisers

[GTX]

I knew it had to be his daughter.

Charger Fan, is it Steve?

[Charger_Fan]

Yes, it's Steve's daughter.  http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/moparsofutah/vpost?id=1701130 (looks like someone else posted that on his screen name)
His ex wife is still in the hospital.

Steve is one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) Mopar musclecar supporters in our community, has been for years. He works in a local dealership & is tirelessly helping out fellow Mopar folks, along with arranging to clear off the whole dealership lot one weekend a year to hold a Mopar car show.

This shooting tragedy was not only something that happened locally, but also involved one of our own. It's a sad, sad deal.

[Johnny SixPack]

My prayers go to the families of the victims and to all involved in this.

I just can't fathom what would cause someone to decide to walk into a crowded public area and begin randomly killing people.

If you're that keen on dying, just go out into the woods and off yourself.

[GTX]

I met Steve in 1979 and talked Mopar with him, I had a '68 R/T and a '73 Charger SE. I think he was still in high school then and I have known him since although I haven't spoken to him in a few years, too busy. For years I used to buy a bunch of parts and get info from Steve when he worked at Hinckley Dodge.
It was also Steve who in '89 told me where to find my '70 GTX that I still have now after I sold it in '84 and regretted it.

Steve is one of the strongest and certainly one of the most known names in the Mopar community here.

Real bummer is all I can say. I can imagine how devastated Steve is over the loss of his daughter and his wife being injured. 
It's very hard not to feel anger towards the loser who did it but I guess he obviously had some real problems of his own.

We also had the guy up the street from me who got hit by a drunken kid and lost his wife and two kids ( half the family) last weekend.

I guess we just have to let God sort it out.

[Brock Samson]

you would be amazed at how many folks die in stupid stuff that don't even make the news or are simply a short report item...
a little novelty will boost it to the headlines, but plenty of folks are wasted in malicious murders and simpliy moronic traffic accidents every day...
  once you realize this you can use compassion to fight back against violence. It's better then joining them.. 

[Big Lebowski]

Here's what NO one in the news has the BALLS to tell you...The 18 year old shooter is a Bosnian Islamo fascist, you know from the religion of peace. But since he wasn't chanting to Allah when he killed those people, we can't call it a terrorist attack. Bull$hit!!!

[d72hemi]

Here's what NO one in the news has the BALLS to tell you...The 18 year old shooter is a Bosnian Islamo fascist, you know from the religion of peace. But since he wasn't chanting to Allah when he killed those people, we can't call it a terrorist attack. Bull$hit!!!

I would not say "NO one in the news has the BALLS to tell you", http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=892975 . After I read that a while ago, I thought of that possibility also, but I will reserve my final opinion until after the investigation details have been released. Remember, just because someone of a particular faith commits murder, does not mean that it was because of their religion. Over all It pisses me off. I am also a member on the Mopars of Utah forum, although I have only been able to attend one of their monthly meeting, due to my work schedule. I could not imagine the pain I would feel if I lost my daughter, especially in that manner.

Ian

[GTX]

I know a Muslim family from Bosnia here who live very near to that kids home. They are very poor and very, very humble people. They are bewildered and confused by America and now very scared too in light of 9-11.
They see people like probably 99% of us in here with education, multiple cars, trips to foreign lands and plenty of food to eat and they have none of that as a rule. Most have been severely traumatized. Some have seen their fathers murdered in front of their eyes, some were raped and some never found out what happened to their families.
I'm certainly not defending this creep, it's not for me to judge or defend, that's God's work but I simply try to understand the motives. Frankly, yes, one of the first things to pop to my mind was a religion issue but I'm really not too sure. The issues are much deeper.
In my experience these people are mostly very good people who want very much to fit in among us and yet are very frightened of us. These are not the stereotypical radical Islamic people you see or think of, at least not as I've seen them. On the contrary, most are very gentle and shy people and very ,very generous when they let you in.

I'll tell you how we met the young girl we know and her family. We were up in the canyons here having a little picnic and roasting marshmallows - it was Fall.
This young girl kept staring over at us for quite some time and then out of the blue walked over and sat by us and began talking to us. She asked what we were eating, she had never seen them like that. The whole family was very curious but afraid to approach (remember that these people are intensely private and understandably so after what they've seen and been through). We invited them over but they were very timid so the girl asked us over,we told her that we would only go if the parents said we were welcome.

Well, we went over and they fed us their Bosnian food until we were about to burst. They wanted us to dance with them but there was no way I'd do that.
Michelle, my other half danced with the girls elderly father who with her brother were all the males that were left of the family. The man was spared because he was old and rather frail and the boy because he was so young.
Later we went to their home (which most of us could never call an acceptable home although it was very clean) out on the North West (poor) side where they have all been located by the government ( I could NEVER live there). We took the young girl to a movie which she had also never seen in the U.S and she was in awe at what we take for granted!

No, not all of these people are Muslim radicals by any means. Most(99.9999%) are simply poor, confused people trying to make sense of this life and this country and wanting to fit in. I suspect that this kids problems may more closely be linked to an inability to fit in with us and\or his own personal problems. I would not be surprised to see autopsy results shedding some light on it too.

Now, on the other hand, YES I am very bothered by this kids actions. It happened in my town in one of the places I hang out in and he killed the daughter of a man I've known for nearly 30 years.

Let's please just try to keep the blaming and speculation down until the facts are in and even then it won't bring these people back or undo the scars on this city.


-Dave

P.S

If anyone wants to be of help to some of these people I'd highly recommend finding a Bosnian refugee family ( I'm sure there are many others too but I'm speaking of this group) and befriending - adopt them. They are located pretty much everywhere and no, these are not illegals!
Help them fit in and show them that we are the good people that they hope and think us to be. I guarantee you that you will probably gain much more than you give out and you will walk away with a new understanding of what these people have endured both at home and here. You will also learn to be VERY thankful for being an American and living where you do regardless of how tough you think you have it.
I ran across this family by accident by the girl approaching us and we're glad that we got to know them, 'our girl' is graduating from high school now! 

[d72hemi]

Very well put GTX! I have had the opportunity to become friends with many people from many differant cultures, and I have found what you said the be true.

[Charger_Fan]

Damn, now I can't post my "Islam is a dynamite religion" sticker, without feeling bad.

I agree, that was well put, Dave.
I hope they can get to the bottom of his actual motive sometime soon, to end the speculation. The local morning radio shows are sure getting some heated callers calling in.

[Brock Samson]

GTX that was a GREAT post!
thank you!

[Big Lebowski]

I know a Muslim family from Bosnia here who live very near to that kids home. They are very poor and very, very humble people. They are bewildered and confused by America and now very scared too in light of 9-11.
They see people like probably 99% of us in here with education, multiple cars, trips to foreign lands and plenty of food to eat and they have none of that as a rule. Most have been severely traumatized. Some have seen their fathers murdered in front of their eyes, some were raped and some never found out what happened to their families.
I'm certainly not defending this creep, it's not for me to judge or defend, that's God's work but I simply try to understand the motives. Frankly, yes, one of the first things to pop to my mind was a religion issue but I'm really not too sure. The issues are much deeper.
In my experience these people are mostly very good people who want very much to fit in among us and yet are very frightened of us. These are not the stereotypical radical Islamic people you see or think of, at least not as I've seen them. On the contrary, most are very gentle and shy people and very ,very generous when they let you in.

I'll tell you how we met the young girl we know and her family. We were up in the canyons here having a little picnic and roasting marshmallows - it was Fall.
This young girl kept staring over at us for quite some time and then out of the blue walked over and sat by us and began talking to us. She asked what we were eating, she had never seen them like that. The whole family was very curious but afraid to approach (remember that these people are intensely private and understandably so after what they've seen and been through). We invited them over but they were very timid so the girl asked us over,we told her that we would only go if the parents said we were welcome.

Well, we went over and they fed us their Bosnian food until we were about to burst. They wanted us to dance with them but there was no way I'd do that.
Michelle, my other half danced with the girls elderly father who with her brother were all the males that were left of the family. The man was spared because he was old and rather frail and the boy because he was so young.
Later we went to their home (which most of us could never call an acceptable home although it was very clean) out on the North West (poor) side where they have all been located by the government ( I could NEVER live there). We took the young girl to a movie which she had also never seen in the U.S and she was in awe at what we take for granted!

No, not all of these people are Muslim radicals by any means. Most(99.9999%) are simply poor, confused people trying to make sense of this life and this country and wanting to fit in. I suspect that this kids problems may more closely be linked to an inability to fit in with us and\or his own personal problems. I would not be surprised to see autopsy results shedding some light on it too.

Now, on the other hand, YES I am very bothered by this kids actions. It happened in my town in one of the places I hang out in and he killed the daughter of a man I've known for nearly 30 years.

Let's please just try to keep the blaming and speculation down until the facts are in and even then it won't bring these people back or undo the scars on this city.


-Dave

P.S

If anyone wants to be of help to some of these people I'd highly recommend finding a Bosnian refugee family ( I'm sure there are many others too but I'm speaking of this group) and befriending - adopt them. They are located pretty much everywhere and no, these are not illegals!
Help them fit in and show them that we are the good people that they hope and think us to be. I guarantee you that you will probably gain much more than you give out and you will walk away with a new understanding of what these people have endured both at home and here. You will also learn to be VERY thankful for being an American and living where you do regardless of how tough you think you have it.
I ran across this family by accident by the girl approaching us and we're glad that we got to know them, 'our girl' is graduating from high school now! 

  And when a nuclear bomb goes off in your city, everybody dies, even the poor Bosnian refugees. It's not about the 99% of peace loving Muslims, it's about the 1% of the Islamo Facsists that are building these nukes right now as we speak. Poof, you lose.

[GTX]

Do I really lose if I'm no longer here to listen to that tripe?


I'm sort of wondering who the fascist is around here...and also maybe more than a little paranoid?
Who is it who sounds like the most likely to to be buying their own trenchcoat about now?


So we should run off all of the immigrants? How many generations?  Who would be next? The blacks, the Jews, Catholics, Baptist, Mormon, how about left handed people or those with blue eyes? I fit into several of those groups and I'm sure many others here do too. Would we be safe in your world?
Where would the paranoia stop?

The FBI said that there is no indication of terror on this and religion didn't play any part in it, just a misguided kid. Was the columbine shooting also a religious issue?
Should we just unleash the stormtroopers now? This is the west, should we saddle up and form a midnight hanging party?
How do you propose to root out the domestic 'American' terrorists who have proven to be more deadly on our own soil?

Thank you for your sensitivity and thoughtful insight. I've tried to be diplomatic on the issue but you my friend are paranoid and full of sh&#, we can agree to disagree.

Maybe it's time to put a lock on this since it's turning volatile and polarizing just like what caused the mall shooting it's self. Most likely people unable or unwilling to communicate and see each other as humans. I'm really sorry that you are unable to accept anyone outside of your narrow band of tolorated people but you are the one who is losing out, certainly not them for knowing you.

BTW,
I really suggest cutting down on your daily intake of talk radio aka redneck radio.

[Big Lebowski]

I guess you don't watch the news...The Pres. of Iran said..."Isreal should be wiped off the map". He also denied the holocaust ever happened. The Pres. of Iran IS the next Hitler, and he IS building a nuclear weapon. Some people CAN'T understand that. Kinda like Neville Chamberlin in 1938, he appeased Hitler untill Hitler bombed his country. History will repeat itself when ignorance ignores the enemy. Remember 9-11.

[19Charger68]

Dave, thank you for your insightful post.  This is a terrible tragedy but your post should remind us that there is good and evil in everyone regardless of their ethnicity.