HLPAG - Luedtke Auto Group reputation - Should I buy from them ???

[kripledbybuick]

I was about to seal a $35k deal with Oscar at Luedtke for a 440 general lee replica but had the good sense to check around a little first. I have heard nothing but horror stories since looking into it, but I wonder if they are still capable of turning out a nice example. I see a trend in the bad expeiriences, mostly people who wanted cheap cars and were only wanting to pay about $5k.  I don't think $5k gets you much anymore and wanted the car built to my specs... an agreement was made to my wish list on a particular 383 car including tax and shipping for $35k to my door. I will be holding off on the deal until I determine the risk involved with this seller. Any help with this would be helpfull as well as alternative builders to talk to about building what I want. I realize this may spark a debate about ANOTHER general lee replica, but I have wanted this since I was 10 years old, and my life aint getting any prettier, so I want what I want, and I'm going for it. Thanks for all of your help out there...  Jason-

[beedees]

 :oOh boy, here it comes. Spend 35k with them, and you might...just might get a 5k car.

[Charger1973]

Hell no.  I wouldnt give them a dime of my money.  For that kind of cash you can have the car you want, and dont have to deal with anyone like them.  Hang around here for a little while and keep an eye on the classifieds you will find alot of good guys with nice cars to sell.

[Troy]

It's rare that they have anything that nice but... on occasion they sell cars on consignment. If they haven't "restored" it yet then it might actually be ok. If it's a General Lee I'd bet they worked on it and I'd be checking every single inch of that car before handing them a dime. Whatever you do, do NOT allow them to ship the car to your house sight unseen.

Troy

[bull]

Type the word hlpag in the search box above for a good read. Here's a good place to start: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6464.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,3692.180.html

Their typical modus operandi is to locate and buy rusted Chargers cheap, give them a half-assed "restoration" (consisting of little more than a coat of orange paint and a GL decal kit), advertise them at four times what they paid with just a few pictures of the car (good angles only), take payments in full through the mail or other immediate venues and deliver the cars under the cover of darkness. When the buyer finally gets a good look at the car in full daylight they discover that "GOOD FATHER/SON PROJECT!!!!" means "parts car at best" and "TRUNK METAL CUT OUT AND READY FOR PATCH PANEL" means "trunk rusted out and fuel tank gone," etc. And when the customer calls to complain that the car was not as advertised hlpag will not return their messages. They are very fond of the phrase "YYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA" as well as UPPERCASE letters and lots of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when describing their scrap iron for sale.

[Doc MoPar]

PLEASE do a search on this site for HLPAG and be prepared for some painful reading ("Update to my HLPAG woes" was particularly difficult).  I used to live and work in North Chicago not terribly far from where HLPAG does their "work".  I used to look at their web site for fun but now it just pisses me off.  There are no less than 6 Chargers on e-bay right now including this 68 RT 4 speed, item # 140071871849 if the link does not work, for less than you are willing to spend and undoubtedly in better shape. 
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-R-T-68-CHARGER-R-T-4-SPEED_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6199QQihZ004QQitemZ140071871849QQrdZ1)

If you are still considering buying from HLPAG I'm sure someone from this site who lives in IL would be willing to go look at it for you and be brutally honest.  Heck I'll even do it when I fly back for a visit in early Feb if nobody else will.

[dads_69]

I smell a rat. Look at the guys sig name. Couldn't think of a better won? The company has a bad reputation. I find it strange you wouldn't know that. After coming so close and then backing out. If the guy who posted here about HLPag, after a few months of being logged, then maybe I'll apologise for what I've wrote here.
Mark
Edit:
Bull, I find it very strange that someone would even consider sending that amount of cash w/out even seeing the car or anything in person first, then paying for it. thats why I have chosen to call B.S.
I call it intuition. The guy even pm'd me to call him to verify hes legit, no thanks!

[bull]

I smell a rat. Look at the guys sig name. Couldn't think of a better won? The company has a bad reputaion. I find it strange you wouldn't know that. After coming so close and then backing out. If the guy who posted here about HLPag, after a few months of being logged, then maybe I'll apologise for what I've wrote here.
Mark

I initially thought that too but after seeing his last post here http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18332.0.html I think he's legit. Forgive us, we're all kind of twitchy when it comes to hlpag.

[kripledbybuick]

I thought the sig would get the most attention! I guess it worked. I will find a builder, just not these guys. I did get lucky not sending that check! But better lucky than screwed!

[kripledbybuick]

Holy crap! What is up with you guys? DADS69 you need to relax buddy, I'm just tryin to be nice and you're all over my case! I already agree that buying from hlpag would end up another horror story. Do you guys always treat newbies like this? 

[dads_69]

Holy crap! What is up with you guys? DADS69 you need to relax buddy, I'm just tryin to be nice and you're all over my case! I already agree that buying from hlpag would end up another horror story. Do you guys always treat newbies like this? 

I am relaxed. Like I said before, I smell a rat. If your still around after a few months, then you'll get my apologises, in the mean time, I just find it strange thats all, so you chill out!

[kripledbybuick]

I guess Dads69 just don't like me or something - oh well - whatever! This is the list I sent to Oscar and will be sending to any builder I can find as a jumping off point for my project.

Hello Oscar,

Here is the final list as of 1-8-07 :

General Lee 1969 Dodge Charger
1975 Corvette flame red
all body panels in good shape - no wrinkly or damaged valance panels, quarters, fenders or doors
no rust or fully repaired solid everywhere
no saggy doors - must line up nice
Throttle on left side of brake peddle
blowout proof motor mounts and super durable tranny mounts...( something like Schumacher Creative Services -"poly loc"- )
tubular headers with ceramicoat - jetcoat or equivalent long lasting, durable heat insulating ceramic coating ( not heat paint )
blowout proof header gaskets and collector gaskets
dual exhaust with turbo mufflers (2.25" tubing min dia - 2.5" even better-)
square mopar exhaust tips ( placed to exit below each reverse light and at slight upward angle like stock )
healthy auto 727 (inspected and serviced)
Trans cooler in front of radiator
8&3/4" suregrip rear (inspected and serviced) limited slip unit dana or borg warner fine... ( 3.23/1 gearing & 1.75 or 1.875 pinion shaft)
very good to new U-joints ( inspected and serviced if needed )
proper torsion bars for Big Block
power steering
properly aligned after suspension work completed
front & rear suspension rebuild ( The real deal kit )
front 11" disk power brake conversion
front and rear anti sway bars
factory AC in dash disconnect at firewall ( all AC components still in dash )
Clock replaced with tach
black dash gage cover
black interior
reupholstered and very good to new carpet
very good to new headliner
black console
dash pad in very good condition or new
factory sport steering wheel
am fm factory radio
series 2 wide push bar welded to frame ( high quality gloss black paint, automotive if possible, powder coat a big plus )
12 notes of Dixie air horn
4 new 15 inch vectors ( 7.5 width front & 8.5 width in back) and good (or new) rubber black wall out
remove all traces of window tint
hi perf 7-9 year 3m vinyl graphics with proper DIMs and spacing
good to excellent condition window molding, trims, and gaskets... ( all window registers should work flawlessly )
chrome strip added around sail panel area and inside tunnel back area of rear window ( no plastic stick on )
excellent mechanical condition throughout

Here is the engine detail list for 440:

440 cube big block (orange block paint - all aluminum to remain natural)
hardened valve seats or stelite inserts ( unleaded fuel survival )
forged steel crank
windage tray
no greater than 10.5 : 1 compression ratio - no less than 9.8 : 1
quality gaskets through-out ( felpro would be fine but up to you )
rebuilt block with quality bearings and quality bore job ( no flex hone quicky - torque plate honed a big plus )
good quality oil pump or high volume pump
good quality water pump or high volume aluminum water pump
cast aluminum valve covers ( black wrinkle )
mopar performance unsilenced air cleaner ( black wrinkle finish ) with 1969 commando pie plate insert (orange) picture attached
edelbrock performer-RPM intake
true roller timing chain
comp cams kit part # k21-223-4 ( link = http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=K21-223-4&Category_Code= the over the phone price was $475.48 - online shows higher price )
double angle 30 degree back grind on valves ( improves flow )
quality rings
holley double pumper 750 cfm 4 barrel carburetor

The list is complete at this point and we can move to a contract with your approval of all items listed. I will be sending the signed contract and $35k check tomorrow fedex overnight. Thank you for working so closely with me to finalize these details and help facilitate the out the door price including shipping and tax for $35,000.00.

Please give me a full list of the items provided in the brake conversion and the suspension rebuild kit ( the real deal kit ) . Please also include a full list of engine build details ( block numbers, head numbers, valve sizes, crank grind diameters, rod type, cam specs, bore size, bearing, seals, gaskets, stock items, aftermarket items and compression ratio ) . I am also a picture fanatic so as many pictures along the way as you are willing to snap would be thankfully received. Any pics of the build up will be used in a web site devoted to this car and will showcase the hard work you put into the product. It will also be good advertising for your product and may even help you sell more cars in the future.

As soon as you have completely reviewed all final list details pending your approval, please send me a response e-mail including any details you feel important including all item listed and spell out the arrangement details to move into contract.

Again thank you for all your help,
  ****************************************************************
I will leave out all of my personal info as to avoid any further wrath from dads69

Jason-

[bull]

Here's some pics of Airborne Silva's sorry hlpag acquisition:

[kripledbybuick]

OMG!   That is hidious!! I will go get the pics they sent me and post here shortly.

[dads_69]

I'm not picking on you intentionally, read what I wrote dude. HLPag finds ways to get us to buy they're crap. They suck ass! If you had done your homework, oh nevermind, you'll just piss and moan some more about me pissing in your corn flakes. I'm not gonna go over this crap again w/you, gees dude, get over it already.
Later................

[kripledbybuick]

Heres a composite of what they sent me, I have more detail shots in trunk, under backend, engine bay ... everything looked good to me, but these are just pictures, no replacement for the real thing. I know the resolution is low but I shrunk the file to send it, guess I shrunk it too far. I can't believe the photos of that rust bucket with no trunk! I would kill someone if that happened to me! And dads69- let's just start over here... I'm just tryin' to be friendly, and this is me doing my homework, - forgiven - forgoten - I just got my ass saved by you guys showig me the true luedtke operation, I am thankfull. But now I need help finding a better builder to continue with... I will probably have to change my sig if I stick around here, way to contaversial the way it is!

[bull]

Heres a composite of what they sent me, I have more detail shots in trunk, under backend, engine bay ... everything looked good to me, but these are just pictures, no replacement for the real thing.

I've seen better pictures of that car (at least I think it's that car) recently here: http://midwestgeneralleeclub.com/index.php?topic=123.0

If nothing else it's another place to get some insight into hlpag. The least I would do, if you're still tempted to buy a car from them, is go see the car in person or hire someone who knows what they're doing to look at the car in person. If you really want a General Lee replica though I would go with Smith Bros. loooooooooong before I would get anywhere near hlpag.

[kripledbybuick]

Smith Brothers? Please give me all the info you have so I can start over with them... web adress, phone numbers, contact names... the works. Thanks again

[bull]

This is all I've seen: http://www.richardcummins.com/comingsoon.html

Looks like the site might not be active at the moment but I've never heard anything bad about the Smith Bros. like I have about hlpag. The Smith Bros. are up in Washington somewhere. I started a thread about them once but didn't get much info: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,12792.0.html

[kripledbybuick]

Thats' great, I'm in cali so that's much closer to me... I changed my sig name to something more accurate, so as not to stir up any controversy. I will try finding a contact there tomorrow morning and sending them my list. I think I should be able to get what i want for $35k don't you? Or am I asking the impossible for a custom build in the real builder circle?

[bull]

Thats' great, I'm in cali so that's much closer to me... I changed my sig name to something more accuate, so as not to stir up any controversy. I will try finding a contact there tomorrow morning and sending them my list. I think I should be able to get what i want for $35k don't you? Or am I asking the impossible for a custom build in the real builder circle?

I really don't know what they charge but I know they have different levels of service for different prices. I would hope to think that $35k would get you what you want though.

By the way, why do you want the throttle on the left side of the brake pedal?

[kripledbybuick]

MAN! that took a minute to stop laughing... you have a good eye, I wondered who would catch that first. By my sig and avatar I bet you already guessed - my right leg no worky no more - left one still works good so all my cars have an auto and the throttle on the left. here is a pic of the left side gas pedal in my old mazda rx8, flyby wire throttle modified with custom fabed reverse pattern ABS pedal and billet aluminum adapter arm.

[bull]

Oh, I gotcha. So you had some trouble while driving a Buick? Sorry for your misfortune. There are a couple of awesome Charger buddies here in chairs too, both in Washington. 8WHEELER (Dan) and 472 R/T SE (Mike) whom I've met and hung out with on several occasions at the dodgecharger.com meet in Kent, WA and at the Mopar Nationals in Woodburn, OR. Mike even let me come to his house and drive his '70 4spd R/T before he sold it and got his purple '70.

Sorry if I'm bringing up a sore subject here. I never really know how to deal with conversations about wheelchairs but if anything I think these guys are more courageous than the average guy for what they've been through and yet continue to do. They seem to have more energy to hit more car shows than I do and I really look up to both of them on many different levels. Don't tell Mike I said that.

[JMF]

That list you made I very much doubt HLPAG could get anywhere near that, go elsewhere, try these places

www.classicmusclecars.com

www.southernmotors.com

[JimShine]

I am the guy you spoke to earlier. I am glad you found this site.

Listen to these guys here about HPLAG.

Didn't know about your leg. I screwed my right leg up in a accident too. My left leg is the one I have to use.