HELP!

[TheGhost]

Dart died on my last night.  Figured it might be the fuel filter, so I replaced that today, and it ran again.  I drove it about 10 blocks, where it promptly died on me.  Pushed it home, checked to see if there was water in the tank, didn't find any.  Checked the carb float, seemed okay.  I'm getting spark, the car is turning over, but, the spark plugs are dry.  Checked to see if the pump was doing it's job, and, gas was being pumped.  So, we're stumped now.  Anybody got any idea why it won't run?  Is the timing chain off?  Carb go bad?  HELP!  Engine is a 225 slant 6, by the way.

[andy74]

are you getting spark at the plugs?i would check that,and make sure your getting gas at the carb,a weak pump/leakey fuel line?

[TheGhost]

We took the carb apart to check the float, and the chamber was full of gas, so we are getting gas there.  Spark plugs are getting spark.  Didn't see any gas on the ground or in the engine bay, so I doubt it's a leaky line.  Maybe a weak pump, though....

[SpudRacer]

The gas in the bowls may have been left over there.  I recommend disconnecting the fuel line from the carb, point it into a pop can or equivalent and crank it over.  If you are squirting fuel, the pump is working.  If you manually throw the throttle open while looking down the carb throat, you should see the accellerator pump squirt fuel down the venturi.  If both check out, it's GOT to be the ignition system!

Let us know...

[TheGhost]

We checked the pump, it's working.  Will check the carb tonight, when my dad gets home.

[moparguy01]

you getting spark? pull a plug wire, bridge it with a screwdriver and have your dad crank it while you hold it close to something metal and watch for spark. if you have no spark at the plugs, check for spark at the coil wire.

if you have spark at the coil wire but not at the plugs, take the cap off the distrib and see if you can spin the rotor around in a full circle. if thats the case yank the distrib. and replace the shitty nylon pile of crap gear they put on the bottom.

just going by what happened to mine...sounds similar.

[The Mad Scientist]

I've seen pics of that engine compartment of yours.   

I don't know what all you've fixed on it since you've had it, but...   I noticed that it looks like someone put a later model head on it.   below the deck surface it looked like the engine was made out of crud insted of cast iron, and above the deck surface it looked degreased.   Also you had what appeared to be emissions lines and possibly vacuum lines going to nowhere.   Also it appeared that your fuseable link was bypassed and your battery casing was melting.   You might want to look into these things, if I'm right that is.   It was hard to make things out in the picture.   

As for your problem.   I'm torn.   I'm not sure what to think.   You said it ran with a new fuel filter but it sounds like you're getting fuel, do a fuel volume or pressure check and make sure the accellerator pump is working right.   That slanty of yours have a holley or a carter carb (what model)?   Is the needle and seat plugged?   when you mentioned the float being okay did that mean the setting was okay, or that it was clean and not sticking?   Try lightly tapping the bowl with a hammer.

about 90 percent of the slanty driveability problems I've seen were due to ignition/timing(static or dynamic).   The old /6's will run all sorts of wierd with poor or out of time spark.   And going back to those orange twist caps I saw around certain places, that leads me to believe it's electrical.   Check the   cam timing, make sure allignment between cam and crank is right on and that your timing chain hasn't slipped (you can check for this at the distributor, no need to pull the motor apart).  A sudden and severe loss of compression will also indicate this.   Just how easy is it to turn the motor over by hand now (like by using the belt)?

Running a compression check can also indicate this (if compression is low across the board).   

If you can coax it to run again, do a vacuum test.   a steady rising and falling by about 5 inches of mercury is usuaully a good indicator of a loose timing set.   

If there was fuel in the bowl the thing should have ran, unless the carb is plugged up with crap.   

I didn't get to notice from the pic, you got breaker points or elec ign?

What were the circumstances of the mighty Dart quitting you?   Tell the long and sordid tale.   Cut out all of a sudden?   All of a sudden ran like crap then quit?   Started surging then quit?   etc etc etc

MG I can't believe I forgot about those damn nylon gears.  

[TheGhost]

you getting spark? pull a plug wire, bridge it with a screwdriver and have your dad crank it while you hold it close to something metal and watch for spark. if you have no spark at the plugs, check for spark at the coil wire.

if you have spark at the coil wire but not at the plugs, take the cap off the distrib and see if you can spin the rotor around in a full circle. if thats the case yank the distrib. and replace the shitty nylon pile of crap gear they put on the bottom.

just going by what happened to mine...sounds similar.

We have spark, and the gear is still there, so that's not the problem....  My dad is convinced it's the jets in the carb are clogged.


TMS, I have a Holley, not sure what model, and it's too dark to check outside now.

I can't get it to run again, at all.  All she does is turn over.  Distrib is points.

What happened was, on Monday, I drove from my house, to a neighbors, about 4 blocks away, and then drove back.  When I entered the driveway, it sputtered for a second, then died.  I tried restarting, with no luck.  The next day, we replaced the fuel filter, and she started up again.  I drove about 10 blocks, where it died at a stop sign.  I could get it to start back up, but, the moment I would let off the gas, it would die again.  White smoke would come out of the tailpipe when I revved to keep it running, too.....

Someone said it might be moisture under the distrib cap.  Could this be the cause?  The Dart does run rough when there is alot of moisture in the air, I/E during/right after a rainstorm.

[The Mad Scientist]

Well Everett...   White smoke out exhaust usuaully means one thing, coolant in the combustion chamber.  

as for the carb, tap the bowl and base with a hammer to see if you can unstick what's stuck.   It's not a fix, but then you'll know what's wrong.

how easy is the slanty to turn over using the belt?

For future reference...   Water that gets under the cap can be a real PITA, but that same water can make bad plug wires worse with regards to arcing.     

By the way, does your cyl head have spark plug tubes??? 

[SpudRacer]

White smoke... bad sign.

[TheGhost]

White smoke... bad sign.

How bad?


I tried starting it up today, before I messed with it, just to see, and, she started right up.  Ran without me holding the gas pedal, but too rough to drive.  This is just plain odd....


I can't turn the belt, TMS.  By spark plug tubes, do you mean little removable tubes in the spark plug holes, that kinda cover the spark plug?

[ramit]

I am no expert but it sounds like the points need to be replaced or you have moisture getting in your distibutor cap.  I had a 71 charger with a 318 that did all of the same things you are explaining except for the fuel filter changing part. I spent a few hundred dollars fixing stuff such as the carb and fuel pump only to find out it was about a $10 fix.

[The Mad Scientist]

well,   when it quits have you tried starting it with ether?

Also.   There was a change on the slanty head in 74 and 75? I think.   74 was beginning of hardened seats for unleaded gas.   Those heads still had the spark plug tubes.   Aluminum tubes that surround the spark plug.   Starting I believe in 75 they did away with tubes altogether and made a casting that had the sparkplugs more out in the open like a V8.   The way your engine shot looked I'm guessing someone either did a valve job or slapped a later model head on it.   More of an idle curiosity.   Not serious.   But it might come in handy for later.   If you don't have a smog head   you may want to slap one on if you have a coolant leak in the combustion chamber which it sounds like you do have.   Might also be a good time to find a super six 2bbl intake and carb     If someone had the head off before you bought it and did a half assed job of valve job/head gasket/etc.   that could explain your white smoke.   Popped head gasket, cracked head, cracked block, you won't know till it's taken off.   There are a couple of ways to find out if it really is coolant in the combustion chambers.   sniffer test (using a chemical detector that changes color with combustion gasses) or sniffer test (your nose) near the tailpipe.   If it were me, I'd yank the dist. and throw some points on it, check it over lube it, check the vacuum advance actuator, basic inspect and points/condenser replace.   It's cheap enough that if it wasn't the problem you won't feel so bad about wasting 7 or so dollars for the points and condenser.   If you don't have feeler gauges and a points file now would be a good time to invest in some, and also a set of heavier duty offset feeler gauges solely for the purpose of setting valve lash which you could probably stand to do as well.   It would be a good idea to do some other basic tune up stuff, since it sounds to me like you'll be needing to tear the head off.  

If you've got other specific questions pm me or keep posting, you've still got my email too right?   I've got shop manuals I could scan and a little knowledge in my head.   I'll help you all I can.  

*edit  If you can't turn over the motor by turning the belt or harmonic balancer pulleys etc. then it's a good bet your compression is good.  Either that or you need to work out more.  (ha ha)

[moparguy01]

white smoke is not a good sign. usually means blown head gasket or something cracked. yank ALL the plugs and spin the engine over. see if anything comes out of the holes. if anythings in there, it should make a nice mess......

ya, that engine shot was a freakin nightmare. twist connectors everywhere. dear lord.
mad, i only remember that POS nylon gear cause of my wonderful experiences with them. I hate those damn nylon gears. who thought of that anyways? i gotta go kick his ass.

id go ahead and get new points and a new cap. they're cheap. and buy a rotor too. dont cheap out on us now. if you dont have a feeler guage you can set points with a matchbook cover and get close enough for it to run decent.

check for fuel is the next step. but like mad, im guessing it has to do with that wiring nightmare under the hood. i mean come on, it makes lucas wiring look good. you gotta do something about that crap. good connectors arent that expensive and they're just as easy to put on.

[The Mad Scientist]

solder and automotive grade shrink tube is even cheaper/better.  

Good point about the cap/rotor.  

Everett.   You've lucked out this far with the car.   Time to sink some $$$ in it.   No car runs forever if it needs care.   Not even a slanty.  

Before I worried too much about points/condenser/cap/rotor/carb rebuild/plugs/plugwires/valve lash/etc.   I'd worry about that coolant you have in your combustion chamber.   Check to see if it is coolant.   But honestly, I don't know what else it could be.   Sounds by your description that that head needs to come off and needs to be sent to a machine shop to be checked for cracks and valveguide clearance and valve spring tension and warpage.   While you're at it.   Check the valve seals.   Are they new.   Or cracked to hell and gone.   If the head comes back okay.   And there's no evidence that the head gasket has been leaking/blown.   Then I hate to say it, but the block or cyls may be cracked.   If that's the case then it's time to magnaflux, or get a penetrating dye kit.  

I hate to come out and say it, cause it sounds so much like bad news, but...     Sounds like your car is bleeding to death from a thousand small cuts.  

Clogged carb, blown head gasket/cracked head/block or whatever, lack of tune up, bad bad bad wiring (very bad), mystery hoses/lines, And inless I miss my guess.   There was a bunch of crap around the press cap on the rad.   Perhaps a tube of silver seal (or equivilent) to "fix" an internal coolant leak?

How close are you to getting that baracuda?   Your mighty Dart may require an investment.   But I'm just going on what I'm told from 2 states away.   I could be wrong if there was a mix up, omission, or all purpose misunderstanding.  


If you push it here I'll take a look at it for you.