Flush/fill that migrated into blown head gasket and plugged up radiator. Read on

[resq302]

Not that I have seen.  Ive only seen good results from it.

[73Charger]

Watter wetter is great for 8-12o temp reduction but it wont solve his problem with overheating.  My guess is blockage. it sounds like your car was fine before the flush, therefore what does the flush do to blow that? Either air or other deposit stuck where its not supposed to be. The radiator is easily tested, the stat is easily replaced, after that I wouldnt want to think about blockage in the heads or pump. That's one of the reasons Im scared to flush my system. I see white scale on my radiator but I dont want it to end up somewhere more important. Good luck, I hope it is one of the easy things.

[dodge freak]

Why not flush it again using a bottle of flushing stuff-its right with all the other cooling stuff at a auto store. Maybe use 2 cans, I think you pour it in and drive it for 20 mins and then flush the system. It might help break up the stuff clogging the heads, if thats the problem.

[70charginglizard]

Why not flush it again using a bottle of flushing stuff-its right with all the other cooling stuff at a auto store. Maybe use 2 cans, I think you pour it in and drive it for 20 mins and then flush the system. It might help break up the stuff clogging the heads, if thats the problem.

I already tried a second flushing of the system with no results. I don't think I have much choice now other than pulling the radiator out and having it tested and checking the bottom radiator hose for debris.

I decided to change out the 160 thermostat out today for a brand new 180 thermostat as well as replacing my radiator cap with a brand new one. (16psi)

Still same problem. (after driving normally for about 20 minutes temperature shoots up to 240/250 and as soon as I shut it down it boils over in the reserve overflow.)

I believe i'm outta any simple fix options from this point.

[dodge freak]

You could pull the bottom hose off the rad. and put the garden hose in the top of the rad and see how fast the water comes out. If its plug up bad the water will mostly come out on top where the hose is. Even after you turn the hose off you can look to see how long the rad. takes to empty it self out, should not take long at all. Thats what I would do and if it seems ok I pull the pump and have a good look at it, but it does seem like something is clog up.

[70charginglizard]

You could pull the bottom hose off the rad. and put the garden hose in the top of the rad and see how fast the water comes out. If its plug up bad the water will mostly come out on top where the hose is. Even after you turn the hose off you can look to see how long the rad. takes to empty it self out, should not take long at all. Thats what I would do and if it seems ok I pull the pump and have a good look at it, but it does seem like something is clog up.

Thanks
I'll try that one out tomarrow. I'm pooped for today after doing the compression test and checking all the spark plugs and putting in a new thermostat. Enoughs enough for today.

God this is sooooo frustrating! I hate heating issues in mopars. They can be a real pain in the butt!

[Steve P.]

I hear ya Lizard. We have all been there at one time or another. It sucks. Seams that you have done all the simple shit. This is normally when the heads come off..

Before you go there, did you drill a 1/8 inch hole in the new stat??

Are you sure you are getting good flow with the stat open??

Not running it too lean??

Timing??

Mirror held at each exhaust pipe??

Not sucking the hoses shut when revving??

Check all plugs for steam cleaning??

Nothing blocking radiator?? 

Checked pressure in system while running??

Checked holding pressure of system??

Some sound dumb, but I have seem them all......

[70charginglizard]

I hear ya Lizard. We have all been there at one time or another. It sucks. Seams that you have done all the simple shit. This is normally when the heads come off..

Before you go there, did you drill a 1/8 inch hole in the new stat??YEP

Are you sure you are getting good flow with the stat open?? when it warms up with the radiator cap off I noticed that it started pushing out the top of the radiator. when I reved the engine up the level would go down and when I let off it would overflow out the top of the radiator, I'm assuming this would be considered bad flow? but from where???

Not running it too lean?? Checked the plugs for that today. Heres what they looked like-http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18699.0.html
Timing??adjusted that. didnt help

Mirror held at each exhaust pipe??Ive watched the exhaust in person while it's running. its not white or black smoke it's clear clean ehaust.

Not sucking the hoses shut when revving??Nope wide open when cold and when hot

Check all plugs for steam cleaning??yep. looked at them today and ran a compression check plugs looked pretty damn good except for a little carbon deposit on a couple of them and the compression was averaging around 145 psi. Again here is what they looked like: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18699.0.html

Nothing blocking radiator?? I'll have to look into that one some more. think im going to pull the hoses off tomorrow and run some hose water from top to bottom and see what the flow looks like. I'll let you know then  

Checked pressure in system while running?? how do you check pressure on a cooling system when running? and when? (before or after warm up)

Checked holding pressure of system??Im assuming it must be holding up to at least 16 psi because of the new radiator cap I purchased and put on it today which is rated at 16 psi. It's brand new and it opened to relieve the pressure when the engine was shut down after temps were getting rediculously high again (240 and up) as usual

Some sound dumb, but I have seem them all......

[Steve P.]

Checking holding pressure is done with a rad. pressure tester. It is made up of a pump with a gauge and a fitting that takes the place of your radiator cap. You can buy or borrow one from Auto Zone.

Remove the cap.

Place the pump fitting in place of the cap. Pump it up to 16 to 18 pounds. (I normally go at least a few pounds higher than the cap is rated).

watch the gauge for a few minutes. It should NOT drop.  If it does you have a leak. If it's external you should be able to find it by a trickle of water. If it's dropping and no external leak, it's internal. (NOT GOOD).

If all is well to this point, release the pressure to about 10 pounds and have someone else start the engine. You watch the gauge closely. If it jumps by engine compression, (jump, jump, jump), it's a head gasket or a crack. If it comes up very slowly it's coming up due to heat.


One more question. Have you felt the front of the rad. while it is warming up?? Is there any area that feels cooler than another?? If yes, you have a rad. problem.

[dodge freak]

Great info--Thanks

[Lowprofile]

I was having similar issues with my Freightliner! I switched to the pre-diluted 50-50 orange stuff........ETC, ETC.......


Anyhow, They [the shop] flushed my cooling system out w Spic-n-Span & hot water! Its worked great. Also,[maybe I missed this] have you been turning on your heater while flushing? That was one of my problems....ended up that the heater core was clogged & was blocking some of water trying to return to the engine.

Good Luck bro, I feel your pain!

[70charginglizard]

I was having similar issues with my Freightliner! I switched to the pre-diluted 50-50 orange stuff........ETC, ETC.......


Anyhow, They [the shop] flushed my cooling system out w Spic-n-Span & hot water! Its worked great. Also,[maybe I missed this] have you been turning on your heater while flushing? That was one of my problems....ended up that the heater core was clogged & was blocking some of water trying to return to the engine.

Good Luck bro, I feel your pain!

Yeah I've been flushing with the heater on full blast which brings in an interesting question. My heater only blows when the car is in movement. Is that normal???. When the car in park and I turn the heater on, there is absolutely no flow coming out of the heat blower on the dash or the floor. But when I take it out driving it's blowing hot air when the heater is on. Is that normal on 70 chargers? are they designed to only blow air thru when the car is moving? Seems very weird to me.

Honestly, im not on drugs....lol

[Steve P.]

Hahaha....  No that is not normal.. Most of us are on drugs!!  Haha...    Is the blower fan working in motion or not? It sounds more like a vacuum problem to me.

[70charginglizard]

The fan is working when in motion. but when at an idle nothing....Vacuum problem on a heater fan motor? I don't think the 70 charger runs on vacuum except for perhaps the power brake line. The heater fan is electrical as far as I know.
I know what you mean about it sounding like a vacuum problem though. Weird hu? The motor must be just so old that it needs higher rps to get enough voltage to get it moving is all I can think is happening.


On another note. I'm running another radiator super clean today. This time real good. No more of this 20 minutes and then out.

Question- how long can you keep that radiator cleaner in the cooling system without it doing damage to something? I was thinking about letting it sit in there overnight and removing it tomarrow. Will that be ok or should I take it out before I hit the sack tonight? 

Thinking that if I let it sit in there for 24 hours maybe it will break up what ever is clocking up the system. If that is indeed whats going on.

[Steve P.]

Sorry. I was in a hurry and what I was thinking never made it to the keyboard.. I'll try to clarify..

What I meant to ask is does the fan blow hard when just turned on?? You should have all fan speeds without the engine running..

The vac. question goes to whether or not the hot water from your heater hose inlet valve is being properly throttled. Also, (I'm not sure of this), but, I think you also have vacuum actuators that control air flow direction.

[70charginglizard]

Apparently I only have one. on or off. the swotch positions itself like it has 3 speeds but I just went out and checked without turning the engine on and in the middle position the fan does actually turn on. but on the slow and fast fan speed positions I have nothing.
Maybe one of my past owners jury rigged a "On or Off" position switch in there at some point.

Huh. weird.

What do you think about leaving the radiator cleaner in the system overnight? do you think that will be ok?

[73Charger]

As long as the cleaner has no warning about it - I would try it too.  the fan should definately make a sound of change of speeds in each mode so you either have a bad switch or fan or like you said, someone put a cheap one speed fan or switch in there.  If you are getting heat out then your blockage is probably not in the heater core.

[Steve P.]

I have never seem any brand of FLUSH that recommended it. I would NOT.. That's acid your putting through your entire system.

I am not sure how your switch is wired. No wiring diagram here. I tend to chase wiring by eye and touch. That will teach you where things are and give you a chance to make sure nothing is being pinched or frayed.

Does the fan speed change with the engine running?? Meaning can you adjust the speed then??

[rt green]

i'm an auto mechianic. we use the coolant flush machine to flush cooling systems all the time. if this process is used, it will push out any air caught in the system. you said you had no problems before the coolant change. at this point, i would take it in to a known good shop and have this done. it has to be a stubbern air pocket.      bruce 

[70charginglizard]

i'm an auto mechianic. we use the coolant flush machine to flush cooling systems all the time. if this process is used, it will push out any air caught in the system. you said you had no problems before the coolant change. at this point, i would take it in to a known good shop and have this done. it has to be a stubbern air pocket.      bruce 

I wouldn't say I had no problem. It was beginning to act up sometimes (usually when stuck in traffic)Thats why I decided to do a flush to the system. But instead of helping my problem it just seemed to make it worse.
It wasn't doing what it's doing now....(Overheating after 20 minutes running regardless of driving conditions stop and go or cruising) 
After I finish this latest radiator super clean process I'm doing. If it's still doing it after that I'll take it in and try that though.

Anythings worth a try before I start digging into the motor.

[Steve P.]

This still sounds like a head gasket to me. Hopefully NOT a cracked head or worse...

[firefighter3931]

This still sounds like a head gasket to me. Hopefully NOT a cracked head or worse...

Throw a bottle of Bars Leak in the cooling system and see if that helps.  You might want to have the cooling system pressure checked to see if it's holding.


Ron

[70charginglizard]

Either case I just want to thanks you all for the input. It has been helping me deal with this problem much better will all your guys feedback

Thanks


"This still sounds like a head gasket to me. Hopefully NOT a cracked head or worse..."......I'm in Head gasket/cracked head denial.  I will chase everything else down until that is my only other option.

[Duey]

Charge, the fan sounds like a switch wiring issue first, and potnetially a motor winding issue second.  Did the fan work properly before?  If it's something that's happened recently (only MED working) it could be a failed winding in the fan motor.  Electrically, three speeds are often made with only two winding fields, e.g. 2A for LO, then a 4A field for MED, then HI reconnects the 2A LO with the 4A MED to give 6A of total power, thus 2A-4A-6A LO-MED-HI.  If your low field is fried, you would only get MED and in some cases HI would be the same as MED or might not work at all because of the failed LO winding.  Something to think about, anyway.  Good luck!

Cheers,
Duey

[Steve P.]

Either case I just want to thanks you all for the input. It has been helping me deal with this problem much better will all your guys feedback

Thanks


"This still sounds like a head gasket to me. Hopefully NOT a cracked head or worse..."......I'm in Head gasket/cracked head denial.  I will chase everything else down until that is my only other option.

If you have done everything we have suggested there isn't much left..

Have you pressure tested the system yet?

How about the flow across the rad. while the T-stat is open??

Any cold spots in the front of the rad. while up to temp???