Purchasing a Welder

[Judhudson]

Well, I'm going to have a lot of metalwork ahead of me to restore the 68 I have. I'm currently taking a welding class to learn the basics of welding. Right now I'm fooling around with Stick Welding. The teacher said he wanted us to try out the other methods of welding before we get to MIG as once you use it, you don't want to do anything else 

So I want to get your opinion on what is the best kind of welder to get. I'm leaning towards these two:

Pro Mig 140
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=38790


Weld-Pak 3200 HD
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=7112

The thing is, I don't believe there are any differences in them. It's just one is sold at Home Depot, and the other at Lowes. Do any of you have a recommendation of a different welder, or if you used these welders and would like to comment on them? I'd appreciate it!

Keep in mind that I am looking for one close or under $500.

[charger harry]

Best advice, get a name brand welder.  If you finish with it and want to sell it, you should get most of your money back.  If you want to keep it for many years, you can still get parts for it.  Same can't be said for the off brands.  Get gas.  The flux core leaves spotty weld that is porous and generally not as good as gas weld.  110V machines are fine for body work but fall short if you get into thicker metal.  I have a Lincoln SP175, bought it used from another guy who finished his project.  Have fun.
Harry

[Silver R/T]

these lincolns should be fine for welding auto body sheet metal. Myself Im looking to get one of these.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOBART-HANDLER-140-MIG-WELDER-new-500500_W0QQitemZ130024177735QQihZ003QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
stay away from gasless flux core welders, unless maybe if you were welding your kid's tricycle (not sure if Id trust one even then)

[Judhudson]

Hmmm, so Lincoln Electric isn't a name brand welder?  What are the good name brand welders then?  I like the Hobart Welder.  I might want to check into that.  Also, you're saying I should use gas and stay away from Flux Core then.  If I am not mistaken, most MIG welders have the gas attachment to them, but I'll definately keep that in mind.

[Todd Wilson]

For body work a 110volt   Lincoln,Hobart or Miller will be fine.  Hobart and Miller are made at the same factory.  Get the gas and dont use flux core wire for body work. Consumables are important. With name brand welders you can get the parts you need to stay running.  Off brand units sometimes use odd ball parts and you may not be able to find stuff in the future.   You will go thru tips and rollers.  Most farm storms carry the consumables for the Big 3 welders.    Cheaper off brand welders sometimes still have an electrical live tip even if no welding is going on. Theres a safety factor there that you should beware of.


I bought a Hobart 135 a few years ago and it worked great for my body work.  I think they are 140's now. 110volt plug in.  One thing to remember with the 110volt units  is most require AT LEAST a 20amp circuit to run at full steam.  Their duty cycles are not as long as the industrial type welders.  They will work for body work just fine but dont expect to light an arc and weld continous for 25 minutes on a trailer frame. A zap here and there for body work and they are very good at doing that!


For body work an auto darkening helmet is a very good thing to have. Dont get a cheap helmet as they are slower to darken then the expensive helmets and will flash you even though you dont see it. Do this many times and you will feel it! 

If you decide to buy a Hobart there used to be a few Welding companies on Ebay that had excellent deals on new units. The price with shipping to your door was sometimes 100$+ less then buying one at a farm store.



Todd

[Judhudson]

Wait a minute, I knew I saw that one somewhere!  It was at Tractor Supply.  I was looking at it, but I thought it was an off-brand welder so I didn't pay much attention for it.  I never knew that Hobart has gained much respect   So now I know which one to get and where they are available, I'm going to compair prices. 

As for the helmet, that's the first thing I had to do when I took my first day of class.  The regular helmets wouldn't work for me.  I couldn't see where I started and it just drove me crazy.  So I invested in a decent electronic helmet to get my by!  And thank you for that picture, I'm going to get a stand as well!

[Todd Wilson]

Wait a minute, I knew I saw that one somewhere!  It was at Tractor Supply.  I was looking at it, but I thought it was an off-brand welder so I didn't pay much attention for it.  I never knew that Hobart has gained much respect   So now I know which one to get and where they are available, I'm going to compair prices. 

As for the helmet, that's the first thing I had to do when I took my first day of class.  The regular helmets wouldn't work for me.  I couldn't see where I started and it just drove me crazy.  So I invested in a decent electronic helmet to get my by!  And thank you for that picture, I'm going to get a stand as well!

Hobart has been around for a LONG time. They were serious players in the big industrial type of stuff way back when. It wasnt common to have a Hobart at home because they didnt make small units. Hobart and Miller are the same company. I cant remember who owns who now.


Check ebay!!!  You have to pay sales tax at the farm store and most likely you can get a new unit shipped to you for much less then buying it at the farm store! They are not auctions but buy it now prices.


Todd

[Judhudson]

I'm liking this... 

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOBART-HANDLER-140-MIG-WELDER-NEW-WITH-CART-500505_W0QQitemZ130023879478QQihZ003QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or should I just buy the stand seperately?  You've convinced me to get a Hobart now

[Silver R/T]

thats good deal or you can buy cart separately, like the one I posted link to. Better yet, weld a cart yourself, would be cheaper

[derailed]

Heres a forum you may want to place this question at.   http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/index.php

Also check your local want ads. Sometimes you find good deals in there. I was looking for awhile myself and came across a good deal about a month ago. I picked up a millermatic 210 like new used twice for $900 complete with tank. Still on the original reel of wire.

[Judhudson]

Thank you all so much   Now I can't wait until next paycheck!

[Charger1973]

So what welder did you end up getting?  I need one. 

[Mike DC]

Same advice applies.
-----------------------------------------------------------

-- Get a Lincoln, Hobart, or Miller.  No particular order on that preference. 

--  If you get a 110V setup, then try to get the most powerful 110V setup you can.  An infinite-adjustable sliding knob for the voltage (rather than 4-5 fixed settings) is not common on the 110s, but it's definitely worth paying extra money for if you can get it.

--  For bodywork, don't even mess with flux-cored wire.  Go directly to a gas bottle.  (When using it, you really don't need to have the gas blowing super-hard/fast.  As long as some amount is flowing, it's fine.  Wasting more gas than necessary won't make a better weld.)  Flux-cored wire isn't theoretically a problem.  But for body/paint work, you're gonna have to scrape/sand every bit of that flux residue back off before you primer/paint the metal. So it's really not worth the effort to avoid paying for a shielding gas bottle setup.

--  A welder that's built as a 220V setup is a LOT better for fabrication than any 110V rig, regardless of what the company says their 110V welder can do.  I wouldn't buy anything else now that I've used a 220 for a while.  But a good 110V setup can do most auto bodywork jobs, as long as you're just talking about factory sheetmetal & subframe rails.  The higher voltage & adjustability of a 220v rig is necessary for thicker metal fab work.

   

[runningman]

I have the Miller, 135 I believe.  Has the infinite adjustment.  Works awesome for the sheet metal stuff as you can really dial it in.  I bought mine a little welding supply store and got a pretty good deal on it.  The prices were pretty comparable to the Lincoln be he recommended the Miller since it uses alot of cast metal pieces in the wire drive unit as opposed the plastic on the lincoln. 

[daytonalo]

Now the last thread was the most helpfull !!!!!!!!!!Good stuff

[Chatt69chgr]

http://www.brwelder.com/IndexTemplate.cfm?file=steelman.htm

You may want to look at this website.  They have good prices and I have heard good things about them.  I am saving my money for a Miller 210.  If you want a smaller one, you might consider the Miller 175 as the price is not much more than the 135.  All Migs by the way.  Definitely gas.  And the Miller does have wire feed system that is metal, not plastic that can melt.

[Charger1973]

So basically, I think what I am looking for then, is...  a 110v Miller with the infinite adjustment knobs, gas not flux core, mig welder.  Anything im forgetting? 

[GTX]

I thought that Miller and Hobart are owned by the same company now or something?

I have a Lincoln Promig 140 110v and it does fine for lighter ,metals like body panels. My buddy has a Miller 180 220v and he has troubles getting it set not to burn holes in lighter metal. Yes, he does know how to use it, it's just a bit too heavy duty.
His welder though was what we needed to weld 4" channel for my trailer last summer. Mine wasn't getting good penetration.


If it were me I'd get your personal choice of Hobart, Lincoln or Miller and get a tank on argon gas for it, don't even mess with flux but if you mainly plan on lighter metal I'd stick with something under 150a or so. I have another buddy who swears by his little 100. You don't need a whole lot for body panel grade steel and warpage from too much heat can ruin it fast.

Oh, make sure that the welder you choose comes with a regulator and hose. You can also read up on the rated duty cycles.

[Charger1973]

All I really want to weld is sheetmetal patches.  If I need anything heavier I have access to a big 220v, but its way too powerful to do what I need. 

[Silver R/T]

Im happy with mine, link above^^^^

[Charger1973]

Im happy with mine, link above^^^^

This one? 

[is_it_EVER_done?]

I've said it before, but I will repeat it again ... There is nothing you can do on a car (welding) that can't be done with a 110 volt mig unit. Duty cycle is irrelevant (for car work) as you will never get close to overheating the welder because you would irreparably warp the metal long before any welder reaches it's duty cycle. In other words, if you are welding properly, you will only be welding a fraction of the time, and spending 90%+ of the time waiting for the metal to cool before proceeding.

Plus you will find that the portability of a 110 volt unit makes it about 100 times more usefull than a 220 volt unit. The big down side to this is that you will soon find that you are dragging your welder all over hell to fix things for everyone you know, and many "new friends" will miraculously appear as it's truly amazing how the arc of a mig at night can attract many new people into your life (all with some "little" thing that they wonder if you can weld). This isn't really a bad thing in my opinion.

of course you will need gas. I use CO2 as it's half the price of Argon, and once you get used to it, I find it preferable to Argon for everything except aluminum. Speaking of Aluminum, if you plan on welding it, make sure you have a separate gun liner specifically for it, as the lubricant in standard liners will make it near impossible to get a good weld (aluminum needs to be ultra clean).

Any one of the big three welders are as good as the other. I have a Lincoln 100 amp that I've had for around 20 years. The one thing I like about the Lincoln is that I can get consumables at most any store (K-Mart at 3:00 AM), whereas the others are not quite as prolific. I have never had even one problem with it, and it gets well used.

I would suggest you weld your own cart as it gives you practice, gets you familiar with your local steel supply store, and allows you to configure it to suit your needs.

Lastly, I (my opinion) would NOT buy a unit with a constantly variable power adjustment. The reason being because it only introduces a ton of variables into the learning stage, and the infinitely variable wire speed adjustment is designed to allow for all the fine tuning necessary. I just can't see any benefit in it (though I have never used a welder with one). Plus if you ever need to use someone elses welder, you will not be able to "fall right into it" if you are used to using infinitely variable power instead of wire speed, as my guess is that 99.9% of welders use infinite wire speed instead of power ...  My opinion only.

[Mike DC]

   
Voltage Knobs:

Gimme the infinite-slide every time.  It really made me a better welder.
It wasn't supremely important early in the learning process on ideal situations.  But whenever I took on something more challenging (thin/rusted metal, welding upside-down, etc), I really got things done better with the infinite-slide knob. 

---------------------------------------------------------------

220 vs 110 volts:

I agree that when it comes to sheetmetal repairs, a 110-volt deal is fine.  Even subframe rails are fine with the 110 if you're decent at using it. 
But as soon as I was a competent welder at all, I was already wanting to mess around with 1/8" plate steel . . . and trying to fabricate stuff . . .

It's not that 110 volts is BAD, but it's just that 220 volts is better.  And when you're first learning, I really think it's hard enough to get good penetration in your welds without being near the limits of the machine at the same time.  Once again it's not a car sheetmetal problem but it's an issue for thicker stuff.  I can weld 1/8" and 1/4" steel with my 110v welder just fine these days, but I only got decent at using the 110v on thick metal after first learning to do it with the 220.

 

[AutoRust]

Lincoln makes a 220v welder that is the size of a larger 110 machine. I believe its a 180. This is a very usefull machine, and has the capacity to weld just about anything, and is compact enough to be able to move and store with ease.
I have to agree though, a 220 machine will allow you to broaden your abilities, and allow you to tackle stuff in the future that you might only dream about with a 110 machine.
Get one with infinite adjustable heat and wire. Those preset ones will eventually tie your hands in regards to what you can and can not do.

I understand the cost is significantly higher, but if you get the skills and ability to weld anything, all those friendly neighbors will probably help foot the bill, by you being able to make them pay you for welding stuff for them. Those $10 and $20 weld jobs sure can add up.



dave

[Doright]

Lincoln is a good welder as is Hobart and some other's mentiond

Buy a Miller you will love it and it will work forever and if it ever quits parts and repairs are only a phone call away in most major city's.
My next toy will be a Miller Econo Tig or one step up and a Plazma cutter 175. you see them for sale cheap occasionaly.