Swimming Pool Help

[gsmopar]

Greetings all!

I got so many replies on the other thread, and didn't want to Hi-Jack the topic so I though I'd post here.

We signed contracts with Shasta Pools (Arizona's largest and longest in business) on March 21st.   We were told we would be swimming by the end of June.   It's now the middle of August and we're at least 2 or 3 weeks away from completion.   Delays so far include:

1.   Our first pool designer forgot about us for over a month.
2.   Incorrect type and color of pool features which had to be jack-hammared out and replaced.
3.   The repairs in #2 cause cracks in the deck and broken pool tiles (Deck repaired 3 times now and tile 4).   This is all prior to water ever being in the pool.

Everytime we complain we talk to some manager type and get told, "You'll be swimming next weekend."   I'm tired of getting the lip service and would like to cause them a little grief.   What are my options?

Thanks for all of the replies and advice!

Later,

Greg

[dkn1997]

what you have is exactly what we do for 80% of our customers.  I am from NY and have actually heard of shasta pools.  They are very involved with the american shotcreet association, which we are a member of.
My boss went to a seminar in the west put on by this association and part of the training was actuallly going out a jobsite where they were shooting gunite.  He was not very impressed with the work that was being done.  might have even been shasta doing it, but I cannot swear to that.


1. is there a skimmer in that spa?   I see a round cover in the foreground. IN any case, a true  pool/spa "combo" does not need that.  Not a big deal, but the skimmer will not function in pool mode..  In a pool/sps combo, the spa stays filtered and clean enough from the small amount of water that flows into it from the filter pump. Returning water from the filter system, 75% pool, 25% spa, FYI.

2.  I see a pipe with some sort of rig on it sticking up from the shallow floor.  Do you have a water condition there? (high water table)  or is that a pressure test rig for a shallow floor suction line?

3.  what type of pipe is in the ground?  flex or Rigid PVC?  Make sure it's all rigid, do not accept flex under any circumstances.  Otherwise you will be doing repairs there sooner than later.

4.  I don't understand why the deck looks 100% done when the pool looks like it's only just  prepped for dust.  We try to hold off on the deck untill the pool is full and running. this way if there any problems, we don't have to rip anything up.  Your deck looks like a mojor dollar solid stone job. 

5.  get me some pics of the filter system, I am curious what equiipment they are providing.

6.  If this is truly a "combo" how are you controlling it?  are you going with manual valves, or do you plan an automated system like a polaris EOS, Jandy Aqualink, or Compool?


What percentage of the job do you still owe them for?  At this point, I would not pay one more cent untill the pool is full, turned over (demo from them to you) and you are happy.
Nothing says "grief" like lack of money.  Believe me, when the higher ups get wind that billing has not gotten final from you, fires will be lit under asses quick!!

[Telvis]

Hey DKN, where are the pictures you are referring to? I don't see them??? Am I missing something here?

[dkn1997]

It was in a pm he sent me, I don't want to post the link.  If greg checks back in here, he can.  I don't know if he might not want everyone seeing his stuff or not.

it's a mountainlake gunite pool/spa combo.  looks like deck, pipe, tile, are complete.  just needs a prep.  install spa heads, inlet fittings, etc... then dust.

[gsmopar]

I don't mind and thanks for the help.  I'll take the pics you requested tomorrow when I get home from work.   Other pics are located here:

http://www.gsmopar.com/house/

[gsmopar]

DKN,

Here is the pic of the equipment you requested.  I also started a website (will post link later when it's done) with pictures of the entire build.

http://www.shastaspools.com/images/equipment1.jpg

[dkn1997]

ok, now that I see the closeup, I see that the deck is, infact, a concrete product.  you actually would have been better off with some sort of individual stones considering all the tear outs done.

It does not look good, but I guess the real problem is WHY did all those stones get ripped out and changed?  those voids behind the tiles in some of the pics are very very bad.  water will get in there and tiles will pop off.  If you get any sort of freezing, game over.  probably not an issue where you live.

you might want to consider some sort of paver border around the areas that were demolished for the stone changes.  they could cut back furthur and get a nice clean edge and fill with pavers up to the affected areas.

Looks like they sell complete hayward systems, pumps, filter, heater.  although I am a bit puzzled why they would paint the pvc pipes gold?  Anyway, Hayward makes good stuff.  is that box in the foreground some sort of water treatment system?  maybe a salt chlorine generator?  also, I see many two-way valves.  most of them are top of theline Jandy valves, but I see a few standard ones tossed in there.  they should have just used one kind.  The reason is that the Jandy's are very expensive, but pretty much last forever. 

still don't know why they put a skimmer in the spa.  During normal running, the filter system should suck from the pool and put back most of the water to the pool, with just enough going to the spa for "spillover"  there should be no "sucking" coming from the spa most of the time.  at least that's the way we do it.

Looks like they used rigid pipe, though. I just make it out in an exposed area of dirt right near the corner of the house.

I cannot totally trash the job, just a bunch of things we do different.  maybe because we are in different parts of the country.  I can say they did the right thing by putting pressure rigs all over the place during construction.  this will ensure that if they hit a pipe during backfilling, they would know it.  also means that they pressure tested the lines in the first place.   a very good move.

I still say your best bet is to get up the ladder at this company, forget about project managers, call every day if you have to untill you get someone high up.  I asked around at work and The consensus is they are probably one of the largest pool builders in the world, and I'll bet they did not get that way by screwing everybody.

I would bet your major problem is that the RIGHT person has not heard your concerns yet. 

seriousely, call me if you want to go over any of this in real detail . 631 806 0969.  I get free long distance on my cell, so I will call you back if you want. 

[SeattleCharger]

  The dog is bummed, he wanted to go swimming, in pool pic #3,  nice house.

[gsmopar]

I'll give you a call this weekend DKN and thanks for the help!  The rocks were taken out because they put the wrong ones in.  We liked the "wrong ones," but they insisted we get what we paid for?  Dumb asses, I'm sure it's costing them major $$$$$.  I created a web page last night:  http://www.shastaspools.com/ to "document" their progress.  It wasn't online 12 hours before we were asked about it.  Kind of wierd because I didn't put in any key word searches nor mail it to anyone but family.  I'll probably get sued over it, but with any luck they'll just get off their asses and finish my pool.  150+ days is crazy!  I had companies quoting me 45 days when we were in the interview process.  Went with shasta because of their rep and warranties.  I can't say I feel real comfortable with my "Lifetime Warranty" when I'm having this much trouble getting the damn thing built ("I can take a crap in a box and slap a warranty on the side if you'd like.  It's still just a piece of crap...").

Later,

Greg

[dkn1997]

I like the "tommy boy" movie reference!!!

On the bright side, they may still step up and take care of you. 

One thing you may also want to think about:  All of this shit breaks!!!  windings on pumps burn out, filters crack, digital controls in heaters fail.  It's the reality of it.  picture having all the appliances in your house.  Now picture them living life outside, forever. 
The manufacturers try to make it stand up, but there is a pretty good chance you will have a problem.

The fact that they are so huge means that any issues you have with any equipment will most likely result in them just swaping out the equipment for new.  smaller companies may not have much pull with the manufacturers and you may not get the kind of warrantee service. that Shasta will provide.

I have experienced it firsthand.  We sell a lot of Waterpik (Jandy) products.  we buy everything by the skid.  Our warrantee service reps kiss ass pretty good to keep us happy.  That means replacing stuff that may even have failed due to customers mistakes or even our mistakes.

But callme anyway and we can talk about your gold pipes!!!!

[ChargerRob]