Design: B-Bodies - Style and Sound.

[Brock Samson]

  When examining our cars it's apparent that there was a fundamental design shift between the first, second and third generations...
If you examine an example of each successive model you can see a tremendous simplification in the doors design, in particular in the elimination of the wing window which indicated an industry shift toward the introduction of plastics for trim and panels and one-piece door glass.
Think about it for a moment, in the first generation of the Charger, the use of plastics was evident but limited to small amount of trim, the headliner was fiberglass which was certinly innovative,.. but the use of plastics really accelerated in the much better selling second generation with their injection molded panels and trim including the entire grill and the Charger's overall exceptionally clever design, which incorporated far more plastic then metal for the styleistic details.
In 1971 however with the introduction of the B and E bodies all the factors were comming togeather in the industry to result in a trimmer more aerodynamic and much simplified vehicle design, what I would call an "Organic" style.
This is most evident in the cowl and doors. (shared with the E-bodies)
I personally and specifically don't care for the third generations (or E-body's) doors in which the glass is a huge single sheet which doesn't seal well in the opening and emits a lot of noise at speed...
In my '71 Road Runner I've taken to stuffing a biz. card in the window near the outside mirror to stop the constant howling at anything above 20 MPH.
The initial versions of the B-body were much more solid in this regard,.. It's much better to have a wing window to guide the door glass tightly into it's channels.
So, as the result of this re-design there are alto of shrieks, squeaks, bumps and clanks comming from the the doors in the Runner... maybe your third Gens too?... I dunno..
  In anycase, it's interesting to myself, a lifelong student of design, to see the materials, application and styling elements between the Generations.
The first and second Gens. cowls were much the same but the third re-design in 1971 simplifying the A-Pillar was a tremendous redesign of what was a proven success, and not necessarily for the better.
I'm just saying..

[Old Moparz]

Maybe you just bought a POS?


 

[Brock Samson]

great.. sigh,..
 

  http://www.colani.ch/frame.htm

[Old Moparz]

Just messing with you.     

I noticed years ago, like in the late 1970's, that a lot of the designs of the early 1970's may have looked nice, but were poor in function. The "frameless window" on the doors for all manufacturers was junk. My mom had a '73 Impala at one time & the window rattled & never sealed that well. The doors were thick & heavy & the hinges all seemed to sag & the doors misaligned quickly.

The curvature of the glass from a top of the door to the roof was so drastic, if you were getting in or out on a slight incline from side to side, the weight of the door would swing it back & clip you in the head or neck. I saw a lot of cars fall apart faster than usual & if I recall, the big three automakers were all doing poor in the 1970's due to the "oil crisis" & the rise of cheaper imports.

[Todd Wilson]

Sounds like maybe your window and door needs adjusted and or new seals put in.

In comparing my 69 to my 71  in some aspects the 69 appears cheaper or more flimsy. Perhaps its due to more parts and pieces like in your vent area that are old and wore some. My 69 has many more things rattling then the 71.


As for your thoughts on plastics and stuff you are right. In talking with Carl Cameron at a meet years ago (He designed the 1st gen charger)  he talked of problems making things back then that are a breeze to do now. They simply did not have the technology or know how to do some things that are common place in cars today.  Putting chrome on plastic could not be done. Making glass with curvers and so forth early on was a tough thing to do. He made a comment on a vehicle and I forget which one it was  that the glass curved a certain way and there was no way at that time to make glass that way and then one day either him or someone else had a brilliant idea that you could put a piece of glass in backwards and the curve would be right. They could mold glass curving in but not out. Something to that nature.

If you look at the insides of a 69 compared to a 71 as far as wiring and dash and small pieces here and there they are way differerent. The 70 Charger is kinda the cross over year. I see things in the 70 Charger that are from the 69 and stuff that ended up in the 71 year cars.   In fact if you look at most of the 70's Mopars no matter what it is trucks or cars they share a lot of internal things. My 74 truck and my 71 Charger have a lot in common inside and under the dash. Stuff also just has the same feel and look to it.

I wrote a little story to compare my 69 to my 71 on thw web site from long ago. Its here if anyone wants to read what I thought. I however did not look at the vehicles in the way that Strat has looked at them which is a very interesting way to look at things.

http://www.chargerfever.com/69vs71.htm


Todd

[hemihead]

I agree with the doors being heavy and wearing out the hinges.But as far as wind noises etc.,my 73 has no wind noise whatsoever. At any speed.I think the 3rd Gen as a total look, flows and blends together.

[Lowprofile]

I was sorry to see things like the vent window go the way of the dinosaur. Nothing like opening that thing up at 70 mph to cool you off and clean the dust off the dash!  

My 93' RamCharger still has the vent window, as does my 98' Freightliner. I guess I drive a lot of big ,square vehicles! It seems once Detroit had the technology available & started designing more aerodynamic vehicles, they incorporated "curving" the glass to follow the new body lines.  

btw, 68'-69' Satellite-Roadrunner-Super Bee, etc have some pretty curvey rear window glass!

[Brock Samson]

not dialup friendly,..

i love the way it sounds,.. kind of a hollow bellow,
notice the way he overdrives the car following the prototype passing,..
and that panoz or what ever is sitting still..

  http://www.olympia-charger.com/files/at_pir_31mars06.mov

[Neal_J]

Just wondering:  did you use a pretend business card in your imaginary car's window?



Neal

[73chgrSE]

.I think the 3rd Gen as a total look, flows and blends together.

First of let me say I like them all!, but having grown up in the 70's, the 3rd gens are as nostalgic to my generation as a 57 chevy is to the baby boomers. Some of my early memories were seeing Petty race in one on TV. To me they will always have that winning race heritage even if some people don't consider them true muscle cars. Plus I feel chrysler perfected the lines and styling in 73. To me they are very attractive cars when done right, although some of those colors were terrible inside and out.

[RallyeMike]

I think my windows howled a bit at spee,d but I can't hear it over the exhaust note anymore 

[Mike DC]

 
I agree that some of the changes between the 2nd and 3rd gen cars were not always improvements.

The E-bodies are hard to judge on design issues because their assembly-line execution was screwy half the time.  The rich Barrett-Jackson bidders might be shocked to learn that 70's Challengers & Cudas were never considered very well built cars overall. 
B-bodies were usually better/tighter cars in the musclecar era.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to the vent window & rattling glass issue in particular, I think Detroit simply wasn't spending the money/effort to build them right in the early 1970's.  I mean, my mother's 2001 Subaru has doors with no vent windows/window frames either and the side windows seal up fine.

And humans can put a man on the moon, but for some reason we still can't build reliable flip-up headlight doors.

   

[RallyeMike]

I mean, my mother's 2001 Subaru has doors with no vent windows/window frames either and the side windows seal up fine.

Automotive history is full of stories where the engineering could be improved after firsts. They had 30+ years of history to perfect your moms Subaru windows and window seals. It's hard to say what Detroit really had in mind in the 70's - were they saving costs or improving styling as the promoted it?

Screw either in my opinion. I think wing windows had a great function and I missed them until they finally got around to putting in better vent systems, or as now, with nearly everything having air conditioning in them.