which power steering box

[misty440]

Street driven 1970 Charger 440

Need to replace the current tired police ratio box. I am trying to figure out the best option and was looking at the Steer and Gear Stage 2 box due to the lower cost than Firm Feel. FF is at a three month lead time right now as well. I have no issue spending a little bit more money if the reliability is not guaranteed, what experience do you guys have and what do you recommend comparing Steer and Gear vs Firm Feel vs Borgesson? Is the Borgesson a drop in or do modificaitons need to be made? Thanks for your feedback!

I plan to upgrade mu Upper control arms in the future as well as better shocks that the current mopar shocks. I have PST polyurethane bushing kit installed also.

Chris

[funknut]

Borgeson is drop in with the Bergman coupler, plus it's smaller and lighter than the OE power steering box.  I got the FF stage 3 rebuild and it was a nice unit, but there was still some slop at center that I could never dial out.  Sold that unit and got the Borgeson box and am a happy customer.

Overall, you will pay less getting your current box rebuilt.  By the time you get the borgeson box and coupler you are pushing $800.  If you don't mind cutting your steering column shaft (I did), you can save about $80 with the Borgeson u-joint.

[b5blue]

So you did not have to cut your shaft? (I don't want to cut mine.) 

[Mopar Nut]

Borgeson Box and the Bergman coupler, no cutting needed.

https://bergmanautocraft.com/product/direct-fit-steering-coupler/

[funknut]

I did cut the steering shaft. My column is pretty beat on, so I didn't feel too bad about trimming it.

[Kern Dog]

I have a Firm Feel Stage 3 and the Fast Ratio arms. It is true, this is a huge improvement over a stock power steering unit but there is still some free play. Not much, but some. ALL Mopar power steering units have the same ratio, 15.7 to one. The Fast Ratio idler and Pitman arms alter the ratio because they are longer than the stock arms.....for every turn of the steering wheel, the tires turn a bit more with the F/R arms. THis equates to approximately a 12 to 1 ratio with the F/R arms.
If I had to start over, I would consider the Borgeson but beware....it has some critics too. Issues with hissing noises through the steering column and some fitment issues have been reported. They aren't the norm but they have occurred.

[misty440]

Thanks for the feedback guys, wow the borgeson setup is pretty pricey! I am not looking to go out racing but always upgrading with better parts when needed, would you suggest to start with the fast ratio arms arms then see how the current box feels? I believe that my box is failing as it feels very loose and like there is a flat spot, it feels like there is a kink in it and acts funny at times. Firm feel can build a stage 3 for xtra cash, would it be better spent going to stage 3 over installing the borgeson with coupler? I really dont want to cut anything. I will stay away from Steer and Gear as there is no feedback on them and there price difference give me quality concerns.
Thanks again

[misty440]

Question? Will these fast ratio boxes remove the feeling like I am driving in ice? Can installing F/R pitman ans idler arms accomplish the same thing as a fast ratio box? If the Firm Feel uses the stock box with upgraded springs wouldnt that be the same as the Steer and Gear? Could it be that FF is overpriced or are they really better? Thanks for everyone's input!
Chris

[Kern Dog]

The fast ratio will give a slightly firmer feel but not much. This is because the effort to move the steering linkage is greater due to the leverage imparted.
The boost from the power steering pump is part of what makes the steering feel so loose. There are ways to lower the amount of boost. The Saginaw pumps are the ones most easily modified for less boost.
Most likely though, the steering box itself is simply worn out. Many were ready for a rebuild by 100,000 miles. The generic rebuilds usually only address leakage issues. The better ones include improvements. Firm Feel and Steer & Gear are the top two.

[b5blue]

Borgeson Box and the Bergman coupler, no cutting needed.

https://bergmanautocraft.com/product/direct-fit-steering-coupler/

Thanks for the link!    I had an 89 Cherokee (XJ) and recall enjoying how well it steered. It was almost a rack and pinion feel and I was eyeballing if it could be fitted to B Body chassis.
   Now I find myself wondering if that unit is off the shelf for some other vehicle?  My rebuilt stock unit is 26 years old, my pump is 25. I bought a new pump from Classic and am thinking the Borgeson is just all round better "new" than a rebuilt stock unit. 

[Mike DC]

         
The Borgeson box uses a custom-made outer case to fit old Mopars.  IIRC the internal guts are an existing OEM Delphi 600 box. 


The old Chrysler fast-ratio arm change is the same principle as using a smaller steering wheel.  It feels faster (and higher effort) because the steering wheel is giving your arms less leverage on the steering shaft.  The steering gearbox is unchanged. 
         

[Kern Dog]

That is part of it.
The Fast Ratio steering arms also reduce the turns required to go full left to full right.
Stock is approximately 3 1/2 turns. The F/R arms on mine reduced it to around 2 3/4 turns.

[Mike DC]

    
If you put on a smaller steering wheel, then moving the rim 1" with your hand = more degrees of rotation than before.  

It's not a perfect equivalent but it's relatable.  Not many of us have swapped steering ratios directly.  But most of us have driven a vehicle with a smaller aftermarket steering wheel before.

[misty440]

Thanks for the feedback! I ordered a Steer and Gear Sport box as the lead time was too long from FF, will road feel or handling be better if I also install F/R pittman/idler arms as well as FF or QA1 upper control arms? I know she will never handle like a new car but I am looking for more enjoyment when driving her. Will these changes require a larger front sway bar? Will I now need to install a rear sway bar?
Thanks
Chris

[Kern Dog]

The Fast Ratio arms increase the effort needed to turn the steering wheel but it isn't dramatic. The proper steering box rebuild makes the most difference.
I have a Firm Feel Stage 3 and the F/R arms. I like the feel. It is like Power assisted steering instead of the traditional OVER-boosted steering the cars usually have.
Regarding sway bars.....
There are a lot of ways to go and each one will feel a bit different.
Some people like stock torsion bars & leaf springs with moderate sized sway bars front and rear. This results in a decent ride and improved handling. Don't forget good shocks though.
You will find some people dismiss the use of big torsion bars....saying that they will make the car ride too stiff.
Me? I have a 4000 lb car and went with 1.15" torsion bars, a solid 1.25" front sway bar, 5 stage leaf springs with a 3/4" rear sway bar and Bilstein shocks.
My car rides firm but not harsh. It handles quite well.
Oh.....
You should consider subframe connectors and torque boxes. This will stiffen the structure of the car so the suspension will work better. In a stock car, there is more chassis flex so the springs and torsion bars are not reaching their potential....It is as if the car structure is another big spring instead of a rigid platform.

[Mike DC]

 

You should consider subframe connectors and torque boxes. This will stiffen the structure of the car so the suspension will work better. In a stock car, there is more chassis flex so the springs and torsion bars are not reaching their potential....It is as if the car structure is another big spring instead of a rigid platform.

This. 

The US Car Tools package covers the most important places without cutting into the car.  It's just welding extra pieces onto it.