Tremec 5 speed swap into a '70 Charger

[66FBCharger]

 

[Dano 1]

Awesome thread, KD thanks for documenting this whole process so well. A manual swap of some kind is definitely in my future whether it's an OEM 4-speed or aftermarket 5+ speed my car will get three pedals at some point.

In regards to your brake issues, what pads are you running? I converted my car over to front power discs with the oem dart spindles, 11" rotors etc. and the brakes feel great to me. I'm using EBC red stuff pads which are fantastic for bite and feel. In fact I think the pads are a bit too aggressive and I actually warped the 11" rotors, I have a vibration under braking now that I need to dig into. 11-3/4" rotors are my next move but if you want more bite you might try some really aggressive pads if you haven't already.

[XH29N0G]

Looks like I need one of THESE:



https://www.classicindustries.com/product/1970/dodge/charger/parts/md2526.html

I am sure you know, it fits up under the dash.  It leaves for a very long throw (pedal travel) on the clutch pedal.  I made mine a little thicker to shorten the throw.  From some comments I read, I am under the impression that the hydraulic clutches are shorter throw. 

I will be interested to see this as you set up and see what you think about the pedal travel.

[Kern Dog]

The front calipers are stock for an Aspen/Volare and the Pads are some Rock Auto deal,  Carbon Metallic. The car stopped great before I dug into the swap. I just wonder if the reduction in leverage will have a measurable effect. The manual master cylinder looks so much simpler and cleaner though. I have driven manual disc A body cars that feel great too. I have a '67 Dart and a '72 Duster that stop quite well. They are disc/drum though.

[cdr]

The front calipers are stock for an Aspen/Volare and the Pads are some Rock Auto deal,  Carbon Metallic. The car stopped great before I dug into the swap. I just wonder if the reduction in leverage will have a measurable effect. The manual master cylinder looks so much simpler and cleaner though. I have driven manual disc A body cars that feel great too. I have a '67 Dart and a '72 Duster that stop quite well. They are disc/drum though.

I have manual 11.3/4 disc & 10" rear drums, stops great from 140 + mph

[Kern Dog]

Ha....Yeah, the drums have the self energizing function that disc brakes do not have.
140 huh? that is really humpin!

[cdr]

Ha....Yeah, the drums have the self energizing function that disc brakes do not have.
140 huh? that is really humpin!

4.10 gear with OD 4700ish rpm
3.54 gear  4100rpm OD

[Kern Dog]

That wing must aid in the stability at that speed huh?

[Kern Dog]

I ordered a clutch pedal "Up Stop" from a vendor here in California.
I looked to mount the clutch master cylinder today. The unit bolts through the firewall using three 5/16" bolts. They caution to have the unit in proper alignment with the pushrod because the input shaft doesn't tolerate much of a misalignment. This means that it has to be spot on.

[Kern Dog]

The master cylinder comes with a gold cadmium colored stiffener plate that lays against the firewall from the inside. You can see here that it sits too high because the black 1/0 starter cable is in the way. This is yet another obstacle related to the wiring changes I made in 2013 where I figured that I'd never thought I'd install a manual transmission....

[Kern Dog]

Now I have to reroute the 1/0 cable. Currently it exits the interior and on the engine side, it makes 2 90 degree turns and ends at the starter. I am hoping that there is enough slack to run the cable along the floor and go through the firewall between the steering column firewall plate and the accelerator pedal bracket. THIS would actually be a better way since from there, it would be a straight shot to the starter. Sometimes along the way, a better idea comes along and it results in a change that is actually an improvement rather than a compromise to get a project done.

[Kern Dog]

I was hesitant to drill ....but the new location where the 1/0 starter cable passes through is better than the original spot. Now the cable goes along the left side of the interior as before but turns right above the dimmer switch, lays over the steering column and goes through the firewall using a threaded plastic collar as a grommet.

First, the starter has to be unbolted to get the cable off. I've found that access to the top starter bolt is easiest through the drivers wheel well.

[Kern Dog]

The gas pedal clears fine too.

[Kern Dog]

The new carpet should be long enough to run up the firewall and cover the cable.

On the engine side, the cable comes out at a slight angle since the firewall had a small bend to it.
The angle won't be a problem. The cable is plenty long enough to reach the starter and to allow some engine movement for normal operation.

[70 sublime]

Looks pretty close to the header in that picture from that angle 

[Kern Dog]

It does but with the booster in the way, I couldn't get a better picture. The starter is a bit lower so the cable will drop down and toward the center. It is flexible enough to make a slight bend and still clear by plenty.
I'm still thinking of ditching that power booster and trying a 15/16" manual brake master cylinder again.

[darbgnik]

Backing UP a little bit...
From about 2012 to around 2014, I tried a few things to improve the braking performance. The car has had 1975 Dart Power front discs since 2001 and I swapped in Dr Diff rear discs in 2006. In 2012, even though the brakes felt decent,  I wanted to shed some weight so I tried switching to a manual master cylinder. I tried 4 of them with bore sizes between 15/16: and 1 1/8" and they all were terrible. The best of the 4 was an aluminum Dr Diff 15/16" unit but even then, it barely would skid on a dirt road. I gave up and put the power stuff back on. Later I saw that I had a disc/drum proportioning valve in the system. 4 wheel drum and 4 wheel disc systems do not use proportioning valves.
I had the prop valve with the power booster in place though....Maybe the power assist masked the mistake enough?
Regardless....I changed to a drum/drum distribution block and braking improved. Awhile later I tried another thing. I took a stock brake pedal and drilled the pushrod mounting hole above the stock hole to gain some pedal leverage. This helped quite a bit. The brakes grabbed sooner and pedal effort went down a bit. It has been this way since around 2014 or so.
Now with these new pedals, the brake pushrod hole is back to the stock position. The pedal sits a little closer to the floor. I want to have the clutch and brake pedals rest at the same height. A slight mismatch is okay but the closer, the better. I don't know how much travel the clutch pedal needs to function. This is a hydraulic clutch arrangement and I have heard that they don't move very far. As stated, the brake pedal is closer to the floor than before. Hopefully the clutch pedal will have enough travel as is. If the clutch pedal has to sit higher, I'll need to lengthen the brake pedal pushrod to allow the pedal to sit higher.

One thing to keep in mind: The height of the brake pedal in relation to the gas pedal is more important than to the clutch pedal. You want the brake pedal to be near flush with the gas pedal, while under hard braking, so that you can heel toe(feed some revs to match engine speed to wheel speed) on downshifts.

Also, I thought about installing this on my console, over the wood grain, as the console is the only part in the car with wood grain on it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DMT-Mopar-68-70-B-Body-Auto-Console-Black-Leather-Look-Vynil-Overlay-Sticker/360907378916?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[Kern Dog]

That black vinyl covering looks like a good idea. Thanks!

[timmycharger]

Backing UP a little bit...
From about 2012 to around 2014, I tried a few things to improve the braking performance. The car has had 1975 Dart Power front discs since 2001 and I swapped in Dr Diff rear discs in 2006. In 2012, even though the brakes felt decent,  I wanted to shed some weight so I tried switching to a manual master cylinder. I tried 4 of them with bore sizes between 15/16: and 1 1/8" and they all were terrible. The best of the 4 was an aluminum Dr Diff 15/16" unit but even then, it barely would skid on a dirt road. I gave up and put the power stuff back on. Later I saw that I had a disc/drum proportioning valve in the system. 4 wheel drum and 4 wheel disc systems do not use proportioning valves.
I had the prop valve with the power booster in place though....Maybe the power assist masked the mistake enough?
Regardless....I changed to a drum/drum distribution block and braking improved. Awhile later I tried another thing. I took a stock brake pedal and drilled the pushrod mounting hole above the stock hole to gain some pedal leverage. This helped quite a bit. The brakes grabbed sooner and pedal effort went down a bit. It has been this way since around 2014 or so.
Now with these new pedals, the brake pushrod hole is back to the stock position. The pedal sits a little closer to the floor. I want to have the clutch and brake pedals rest at the same height. A slight mismatch is okay but the closer, the better. I don't know how much travel the clutch pedal needs to function. This is a hydraulic clutch arrangement and I have heard that they don't move very far. As stated, the brake pedal is closer to the floor than before. Hopefully the clutch pedal will have enough travel as is. If the clutch pedal has to sit higher, I'll need to lengthen the brake pedal pushrod to allow the pedal to sit higher.

One thing to keep in mind: The height of the brake pedal in relation to the gas pedal is more important than to the clutch pedal. You want the brake pedal to be near flush with the gas pedal, while under hard braking, so that you can heel toe(feed some revs to match engine speed to wheel speed) on downshifts.

Also, I thought about installing this on my console, over the wood grain, as the console is the only part in the car with wood grain on it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DMT-Mopar-68-70-B-Body-Auto-Console-Black-Leather-Look-Vynil-Overlay-Sticker/360907378916?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Great point about the pedal height in relation to the gas pedal. I was obsessed with this when I converted to power brakes from manual and looking at other cars, seems like that is the case on factory power brake cars.  I wish I could find my thread in here or Moparts about this as I got a lot of good feedback. 

Good luck KD, looking fantastic so far, pedals look factory.

[Kern Dog]

Thanks for the kind words, guys!
No progress yesterday but I had a couple of hours today to do some stuff.
I should have mentioned toward the start of this project that there will probably be some details to deal with that may not apply to everyone and every car. These cars have been around for 50 years or so and many of them have had multiple owners doing "upgrades" or repairs. I was lucky that my car is a 3 owner and was relatively stock when I got it. Original drivetrain, suspension and brakes, wiring, upholstery, hell....It had 2 paint jobs and thats about all. I was lucky.
So far, all I have had to do is to reroute some wires for clearance for the clutch pedal and linkage. No biggie there. There will surely be a few more obstacles along the way and I am ready for that.
The clutch master cylinder is a Wilwood .75 unit and it mounts to the firewall where the stock clutch pedal pushrod usually goes through. This unit has an adapter bracket attached to match the angle of the firewall and pushrod.

[Kern Dog]

I figured to thread the pushrod to the end, fish it through the hole and hold the master cylinder against the firewall to get a position on where to drill the holes to mount it.....

[Kern Dog]

The holes were drilled and the gold cadmium colored stiffener plate is placed on the inside.

[Kern Dog]

On 1970 models, the locking ignition system requires the automatic cars to be in PARK or the manual transmission cars to be in REVERSE for the key to turn. This was a safety feature to help avoid locking the steering with the car in motion. For 1971, the factory revised the design to include a lever on the column that had to be moved, making it a more deliberate action.
The stock ignition interlock connected the steering column linkage to the shift linkage. When switching to this 5 speed, the stock system can no longer work as it did. There are a few ways to go here. Rick Ehrenberg of Mopar Action magazine did a series of articles from early 2019 to mid 2020 where he and another guy built up a '70 Road Runner and drove it across country. In that project, they too did an SST 5 speed swap. He suggests to remove all of the parts associated to the locking ignition for the sake of safety. Me? I'm going to keep the system as close to intact as I can to maintain the locking steering feature.

The clutch master cylinder is in a crowded place here...

[Kern Dog]

That flat 3/16" zig-zagged lever is part of the linkage that works for the steering and ignition interlock. Since it is no longer needed....

[Kern Dog]

The clutch pushrod is adjustable. It is threaded but not like a tie rod assembly where you can leave it assembled and just rotate it to meet the length you want. I have it adjusted to where the clutch and brake pedals are about the same height.