RHD Chargers

[Jon Smith]

its not the same either side the engine is offset to the right,  you'll have less room
maybe a RHD c body steering box is the same?

[limey]

Sounds to me like the best way to go would be with a crossover shaft as Chrysler Australia seem to have done in the 70's. Jon is right, I had a look under the hood last night (in the rain, as I wal thinking about how possible this would be, and if you were to put your steering in the space on the RH side, the knuckle would foul on the headers, even on stock headers.Esp. if you have a big block car. Also..it sounds like the only positive sighting of RHD chargers was in Oz...so if you are going to get conversion parts, you are looking at importing them from a breakers yard in Oz - best to go down the cross shaft route and keep steering/brakes etc mounted on the LH side...

Of course you could always fabricate new engine mounts and move the lump to the other side....oh and transmission mounts....and er everything else....but then I'm afraid we would have to have you certified..
Limey

[Russ_T]

Jon: Yes so I've just discovered thanks! That kind of screws the mirror image plan, I ought to start paying attention to some Charger engine bays...

Limey: Yes I think you could be right. However I'm very much of the do it once, do it properly school of thought. We fabricate everything at the body shop (currently hand making 20 model Ts, and just finished making a chassis for a Model Y body to take MGB running gear ), so a couple of mounts shouldn't be any bother. Unless they are cast but I doubt that.

Thanks This is getting interesting.

[Russ_T]

Hmmm, don't suppose anyone knows of a pic of the underside of the car, if the engine/gearbox is offset, and then the propshaft, and I presume the diff are offset, is the transmission tunnel the same?

Need to get a car so I can see for myself!

[Jon Smith]

engine mounts would be easy to make, of course you've then got the transmission tunnel to move, and the diff is no longer in line, there really isn't much room to put the engine anywhere other than where its meant to go, at least with a big block
if you really want to put a proper rhd steering column in then i would forget all about making it reversible and buy a project car and gut it and rebuild from the ground up a right hand drive
in my opinion sorting the dash and stuff is the least of your worries

edit: you thought of all that while i was typng

[limey]

OH the fabrication should be no sweat...but if you move the engine a bit to the left, you are gonna move the transmission...then you won't have the clearance so the Gearbox tunnel would need to be modified...oh..and the propshaft will mo longer line up with the diff pinion. So you would need to fabricate a new axle casing and custom drive shafts....It could all be done I guess.. but then the car will be severely modified....weight distribution will be different....handling...etc.
Hmmmmm....

I  wait with bated breath...how long until you will be buying a Charger, Russ?


Limey

[EDIT] Damn...I must be the slower typer or the bigger waffler of you two..I said the same thing last....

[Russ_T]

LOL so I made it in first place, followed by Jon, and Limey, oh dear mate third.



Yeh trim isn't an issue, but it's nice to know that there is a RHD dash out there somewhere that's suitable if just to reduce other worries

I am really against moving transmission tunnels, rear diffs and such aren't an issue as you could use a different (non charger) diff and proshafts, I guess it's u joints so I could even go for cvs or something. No thanks to custom drive shafts, that'll require a house remorgage if you get them made, and cutting and welding them is bad news, you could pin them but still... no thanks.

I had planned to buy a project car anyway, if you've seen my Z that's totally in pieces at the moment for a bare shell blast, acid dip, then galvanising (Jap cars rot). well I don't need it as a daily drive so no rush to complete it.

I don't think the weight distribution is going to be much of an issue with the [apparent] handling characteristics of the Charger. Are you suggesting it's all offset to counteract the weight of the driver for supreme balance?

I see that the engine really won't fit anywhere else other than offset to the rh side, why is that? I presume the inner wings are both the same, whats in the way?

Yes my plans should give you all a laugh, I'm only getting stick over at MMA at the moment But maybe one day you'll be all running to me for a conversion lol (probably not).

How long till I buy a Charger, well Z is to be ready by April so sometime after that, long way off yet hence the research now

Anyway if all this turns out to be is just pie in the sky chat who cares, I find it interesting to solve this little problems anyway Just wish I had something to hand I could measure and get hands on with.

[Jon Smith]

the trans tunnel is in the way, the trans is a pretty tight fit in the tunnel as it is
the K member is different for right hand drive but i dont know how different
geeting  custom axles made up wouldn't be that expensive, any drag race shop would do it, you biggest problem is that the car itself was never designed to be right hand drive

[Russ_T]

When I've enquired about custom driveshafts for my Z (fitting an Impreza LSD in it at the moment) the figures were mega bucks! Interesting.

Could you not just swap the drive shafts left to right?? Depending on the mount (and the way the diff oil will pour out the filler) you could almost just turn the diff upside down. Oh hang on, you'd reverse everywhere then lol. Have to change the gears inside as well maybe. Or is that one of the stupidest things ever typed on a forum?

[Russ_T]

Err it just dawned on me, is the rear of the car a solid axle... doh...

[Jon Smith]

yep its a solid axle, but again thats one of the easier bits, places like hauser racing make custom axles all the time
you obviously need to have a good look at a real charger and weigh the job up
not trying to put you off just pointing out what a spectacularly big job it is
unless you do it how the aussies did with a crossover shaft

[limey]

I don't think the weight distribution is going to be much of an issue with the [apparent] handling characteristics of the Charger. Are you suggesting it's all offset to counteract the weight of the driver for supreme balance?


Yes my plans should give you all a laugh, I'm only getting stick over at MMA at the moment But maybe one day you'll be all running to me for a conversion lol (probably not).

Weight distribution? WHo do you think gave BMW the idea of balancing a car perfectly front to back/left to right? It was Chrysler...man, if you move the washer bottle an inch forward you will cause it to handle like a pig......The rear frame and trunk floor are made of solid lead just to balance the engine...


As for your plans....yes I think you are nuts.....I think you could probably get someone to make you a GRP kit car body in the shape of a Charger and then stick it on top of a Ford Cortina rolling chassis and end up with a right hand drive Charger easier...
...but hey....each to their own
L

[Roppa440]

there is nothing wrong with a LHD car, I know, I've driven them, but you STILL can't see past a line of traffic if you're sat on the wrong side

Can I ask a personal question?

How old are you?

I ask because it doesn't sound as if you can actually drive very well or have any real experiance with driving these cars.

I don't recall ever being in a position where I couldn't see forward for overtaking. My only guess is you are one of these people that drives far too close to the car in front. Either that or you have never actually driven a large muscle car in the UK.

The only time (and I do mean the ONLY time) driving LHD in the UK is a problem is if you have to join certain roundabouts or come down certain slip roads and you cannot see over your right shoulder very well. But even this small problem is OK if you think ahead and position yourself correctly in the road or hang back slightly so you can see out of the side windows.

And why the hell would you want a burger at McDonalds? You addicted to the kids meals or something?

[Jon Smith]

Hi Dave

[Russ_T]

Limey: I might do just that, can I borrow yours to make a mold from please? I could then just rest it over my car. Or maybe just get some vinyl wraps for my car that looks like a charger... There is no harm in discussing any of this, although people seem to get a bit touchy when you suggest doing it. You'd have thought I'd committed one of the cardinal sins in suggesting I'd only want it in RHD

Roppa: I'll agree I have yoof on my side, this gives you too much confidence and not enough wisdom. But what do you do about that? Wait till you get old?

Not getting into this one though, I can drive perfectly fine thank you very much. I ride motorbikes and road positioning is very important if you don't want to get squat, and I've done the police training, that includes not tailgating btw. I'm not the worlds best driver though I guess. Ok on the LH side you can see down the inside of a left hand bend, brilliant, but I'm not a massive fan of overtaking on the outside of corners, unless it's on the bike because it accelerates quick enough. Yes you can sit back and take a run up, but if you're behind a lorry you're gonna be a fair way back, in a RHD you could just edge out to the side of your lane and see past it. What has any of this to do with this thread?

[limey]

Limey: I might do just that, can I borrow yours to make a mold from please? I could then just rest it over my car. Or maybe just get some vinyl wraps for my car that looks like a charger... There is no harm in discussing any of this, although people seem to get a bit touchy when you suggest doing it. You'd have thought I'd committed one of the cardinal sins in suggesting I'd only want it in RHD

We are just having a laugh with you - (hence the smileys )
If people are getting a bit touchy, its because it's really weird to want a Mopar but want to change it so massively for the sake of what is ultimately driving ease. I don't buy the fact that it is dangerous to drive an American car that hasn't been converted. I'm a member of the IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists) and I would like to think that my careful driving will make up for the slight difficulties brought about by driving a left hooker....
You will also find quite a few of the UK Mopar owners love the whole LHD thing and everything that goes with it..so ther is a certain amount of...



Going on...which is why you will be getting stick on the MMA board too....
L

[Roppa440]

Why bring it up? Because one of the main reasons you give for not wanting LHD is overtaking. I overtake plenty. I don't see the problem? If you can't see ahead then chances are it is not a safe place to fly down the wrong side of the road in a 2 ton 6 foot plus wide 20 foot long car.

With a decent engine the car will accelerate rather like your bike. Not quite as well of course (although mine and a few others would give you a good run for your money) but pretty damn fast for a car. Quick enough for "safe" overtaking.

I could tell you were young. Your "Yoof" is showing.

Well we were all young once and all had big ambitions. Mine was to fit a 6/71 blown 440 into my RHD Chrysler Charger 770. I had all the plans and costs worked out. I thought.

Come back down to earth. If you start this you will be married and have kids well before you finish it. And do you think your young wife will let you keep it??

Why do you think this hobby is full of older (and usually divorced) men?  I have been working/spending on my Challenger for 17 years now and it is still not finished to my satisfaction.

Buy a good one if you can. Just drive it and make it as nice as you can. Don't spend more money on it than it is worth. It costs thousands and thousands to do one of these cars up. It is not a good idea to make it worth less.

But if after driving it for a few months you still feel like converting it then people like me and the rest of us in the club will give you all the help we can and you can show us we were wrong to try and talk you out of it.

Good luck with finding the right car.

[Russ_T]

Tis ok, I don't mind getting stick, the amount of abuse I get at the body shop (for being the only one under forty) is quite high, infact they've never used my real name. All in good fun, but sometimes it's not very helpful

It's not just driving ease though, it's what you want. Some people pay loads of money for flip paints or to paint their car pink. What's the point? It's what they want.

I think that's where I've lost you a bit Roppa, I'm trying to justify why I want one and clutching at straws a bit. I should have just told you to go away and a RHD is what I want because

I think a decent engined Charger would eventually reign me in, I've geared my bike down and now at about 110 I run out of gears/rpm

If I start it now (well next year) I'm more likely to finish it before I'm married with kids and a mortgage, otherwise I'll never do it. Also I think a Charger is the least of my concerns, motorbikes are more anti wife, and she can F.O. if she thinks I'm getting rid of them. Anyway it's not like I'm weilding a gas axe about to do it, the thread is supposed to be about how to do it, not my personal life and circumstance!

I appreciate how much this costs, my friend just blew £5k on Chrome work for his Chrysler Whole car was only £3k and thats in the country with a ticket.

Now if I promise to drive it and give it a month or so grace period before I cut it about can we move on now? If it makes anyone feel better than I'm not completely anti LHD we can say my bike is LHD. So hypothetically speaking, if some idiot were to do this (what a fool eh ), ignoring chain conversions, linkages, and other "shortcuts" (haha) we are currently looking at


Remounting of the engine, new mounts.
Relocation of all directly connected ancilleries, exhaust, etc.
Relocation of brake servo/master cylinders/pedal box.
Remounting of gearbox.
Relocation of transmission tunnel and all that's involved (floor pans etc).
Relocation of steering column and revised steering box.
Alternative or aftermarket rear axle.
Revised interior trim.


Should be able to do that on a lunch break?

And the only reason I can currently find for the original engine offset is that it allowed the steering to squeeze down the side? Anyone know any better?

Thanks all.

[Jon Smith]

you'd need to have a look at how the sump fits between the k member as well, i cant remember off the top of my head but i dont think theres loads of room, also the steerin box is mounted to the k member so you'd have to mod that, maybe one of the aftermarket front suspension setups might be easier to mod
the exhaust manifolds will probably be a headache, i think you can forget about headers
seat mounts might have to move with the trans tunnel and the back seat might need modifying
you'd probably be into a rewire as well, at least the dash harness
dipswitch would need moving
and you'd need a new rear view mirror

might be easier to move to a country that drives on the right

[Russ_T]

Ok so if the sump has clearance issues it could be dry sumped.

So headers are going to be a problem, why?? Not having a Charger to hand I don't see why moving the engine across is going to affect the clearance, unless one of the inner wings protudes more than another? Probably something obvious that'll make me feel embarassed From the way you guys explain it it seems that both headers/manifolds have equal clearance, despite the engine being offset.

Seats and stuff, not really any bother, then come under interior woes...

Imagine how hard it'd be explaining my conversion if I did move to a LHD country though, and then I'd only have to convert my Z to LHD...

[Jon Smith]

Probably something obvious that'll make me feel embarassed

lol!, if you had a charger it would be obvious, i barely have room to get the plug wires in, never mind a steering column

my engine bay(back when it was clean )


what might work is some cast manifolds from a right hand drive car such as a RHD barracuda or valiant charger, but then again they might not

[Russ_T]

I'm still lost though I appreciate there is no clearance, but why is there no clearance on either side, despite the engine being offset?? It may be obvious, but you'd have thought that if the engine was offset there'd be more room on one side than the other? In which case if you reverse the offset the extra clearance moves sides?

Clean looking engine bay I presume your steering column is hidden by the engine in the pic? Or do you have some string tied to the front wheels like a soap box?

[Jon Smith]

headers aren't the same shape on other side
you could always make some i suppose, you seem pretty ambitious

[Russ_T]

So you're saying it's the headers at fault then, in which case make some, that's easy (well, do-able at least). Really though it's easier to get someone to make them for you as they'll put better bends in. You could also just rip off the dimensions of an existing (and performing) header to save you messing about trying to calculate anything. So long as there is room that it comes off initially at 90deg from the head it should be feasible?

I think I'll just fit a straight 6 and save the bother 

[Russ_T]

I know it's a Mustang, but this guy did something similar (without the offset issues that doubles the headache of course) http://www.justmustangs.com.au/html/LHD-mustang-conversion.html and it looks pretty tidy.

Added wiper sweep modification to list.