Engine build - exhaust

[green69rt]

Did the firefighter engine mount mod.  Pretty easy.  Hardest part was finding the bolts.

Nice work....those will be bomb proof !  

What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?

The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.

Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html



Ron

Forgot to put the CI spec in.  470 CI.  Probably around 9.6 - 9.7 CR  I expect the engine will top out in the 5000-5200 range.

The XE274 will work fine in a mild 470 and the peak power will be where you thing it'll be (5k-5.2K) 

I'd expect it to make in the neighbourhood of 1hp/cubic inch and be very pleasant to drive.   



Ron

Exactly what I'm looking for.  More to come.

[green69rt]

AS of 1/6/2020

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.      
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.      $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs.  So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.       
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax.                                                                                                               $1,335.42
440 source 470 CI stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.                                                                   $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.                                                         $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.                                              $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping                                                 $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.                                                         $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.  $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax                                                                                                                           $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.                                                                                                                              $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax                                                                                                                         $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax                                                                                                                         $359.59
Valve covers w/tax                                                                                                                                         $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping                                                                                                                      $1,138.60
MSD dist and coil w/tax                                                                                                                                 $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping                                                                         $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax                                                                                                                         $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314   w/tax                                                                                         $554.62
used off of old 383,  dist hold down, damper bolt.                                                                                                     $0.00
      
Total                                                                                                                                                            $10,493.32
      
Some remaining items      
starter, alt, Radiator      

[green69rt]

As of 1/21/2020

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.      
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.      $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs.  So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.       
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax.      $1,335.42
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.      $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.      $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.      $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping      $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.      $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.      $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax      $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.      $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax      $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax      $359.59
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping      $1,138.60
MSD dist and HE coil w/tax      $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping              $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax      $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314   w/tax      $554.62
I reused off of old 383,  dist hold down, damper bolt.      $0.00
Rear main seal cap, bolts, seals, intake gaskets(4), water pump neck bolts, shipping      $97.56
Starter, tax      $171.71
Spark plug wires      $141.00
wire seperators, intake bolts, carb studs, shipping, tax      $62.50
Dipstick,SS thermostat housing (bling), tax      $120.98
      
Total      $10905.64


Items bought by the machine shop (no cost yet)
          Spark plugs
          Head gaskets
          Push rods

[b5blue]

Won't be long now! 

[green69rt]

I visited the machine shop last Friday.  Block/crank/pistons assembled.  This week to start on the heads.  Break down and check valves and springs then back cut the intakes.   It may be on the dyno in the next two weeks.  I'm not pushing.  Just ordered a Cope Super Street transmission, estimate 2-3 weeks for delivery.

[BLK 68 R/T]

 

[green69rt]

So far, so good.

[b5blue]

What did the cam degree to when checked? What is left to do to the car?

[green69rt]

What did the cam degree to when checked? What is left to do to the car?

Cam installed with 2 degree advance, I think.  Have to check the cam card.

Car still needs most of the interior, seats, carpet, seat belts and some small items.  The biggest thing on the outside is to do the grill, headlight frame.  I've been accumulating the rest of the engine bay stuff over the last few weeks in preparation of installing the engine.  Things like radiator, fans, trans support, various linkages.  Seems like that when getting down to the wire things really slow down because of all the tiny things that need to happen.  Still need alt, PS pump, some pulleys.  I have a ton of brackets but will have to wait to see what fits.  Also some of the linkages will probably need to be changed due to the intake and carb.  I also want to set up a relay system for the head lights, so that's another thing.  Then to top it off, finish the AC system install.  Need a drive shaft and to set the pinion angle.  Then do a front end alignment.   

Still need to spec and order the torque converter, Comp cams recommends something in the 2200 - 2400 stall range, I don't have any other info on that.

[b5blue]

Hey that is a bunch to do still!    Write everything on the engine details down, part numbers/specifications get forgotten. I wrote it all in the FSM. Good Luck!! 

[70 sublime]

Did you ever drive your car on the road before you started your restore ?
Just wondering if you still have to go get it inspected also before it hits the road
Your to do list is not very small yet to think about a first ride date

[green69rt]

Did you ever drive your car on the road before you started your restore ?
Just wondering if you still have to go get it inspected also before it hits the road
Your to do list is not very small yet to think about a first ride date

I drove it off the transport and into the garage July 2007.  That was the last time it moved under its own power. 

Yes, there is a safety inspection in TX, but no emissions test for old cars ( >20 years old, I think.)

[b5blue]

I could make my own headlight relay harness but these look tempting: https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/headlight-relay-kits/

[b5blue]

I like these Alternators best again tempting: https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/pages/ChryslerMegaAmp.php   I have a Denso 120amp that puts out 50-60 amps @ idle. (@ Idle is the critical rating point.)

[green69rt]

More info and probably put the engine on the stand tomorrow (Friday.)  Dyno runs Monday.

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.      
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.      $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs.  So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.       
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax.      $1,335.42
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.      $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.      $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.      $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping      $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.      $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.      $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax      $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.      $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax      $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax      $359.59
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping      $1,138.60
MSD dist and HE coil w/tax      $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping              $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax      $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314   w/tax      $554.62
used off of old 383,  dist hold down, damper bolt.      $0.00
Rear main seal cap, bolts, seals, intake gaskets(4), water pump neck bolts, shipping      $97.56
Starter, tax      $171.71
Spark plug wires      $141.00
wire seperators, intake bolts, carb studs, shipping, tax      $62.50
Dipstick,SS thermostat housing (bling), tax      $120.98
Carb Fuel line w/press gage, tax,shipping      $73.42
Breather cap, valve cover studs, tax, shipping      $61.49
      
Total      $11,040.55
      
Some remaining items      
alt      

[green69rt]

OK foks.  Everyone likes to see dyno numbers so here they are.  I going to put up several posts to show how things progressed at the shop.

First, recount to the engine build.

400 block bored .035 over with a 440 Source stroker to 470CI. Final CR 9.6.
Comp cam XE274H cam installed with 2 Deg advance.
E-street heads OOTB except back cut intakes at 35 Degree.
Proform 850 Carb OOTB
MSD RTR dist installed OOTB
Dyno test with 2" fender well headers because my 1 7/8" TTI's would not clear the dyno bracing.
Notes on first run.

34 total advance on dist, no vacuum.  
Note water temp, 150-155 DegF.

Max HP 440 at 4700RPM
Max TQ 536 at 4000RMP

Got some valve float starting around 5000 RPM, notice HP jumps up at 5200 RPM.  Considerable noise at that RPM.

[green69rt]

Next run.

set dist advance to 36 Deg. No  other changes
Max HP 444 at 4700RPM
Max TQ 541 at 3900RPM

More Valve float noise above 5000RPM

[green69rt]

Next run.

At this point I asked why the water temp was so low.  Reply was that it was due to the cool weather .  I asked if there was some way to boost it.  So did, now water temp is about 165 Deg.

Not much change, if any in power and torque, but valve float noise was much reduced and seemed to come in a little later.  Note that the big changes in HP and torque above 5000 RPM are much smaller.

[green69rt]

If a little temperature was good, more should be better.  Now about 180 Deg!

Engine is even quieter above 5200 RPM although still some noise.  You can see that the operator cranked the throttle up to 5600RPM.  No gain but the engine seemed OK.

No change in HP or TRQ.

[green69rt]

Next pull used timing of 38 Deg.  Had an actual HP/TRQ decrease, so nothing to show.  Looks like I'll be running 36 Deg of advance.

Up to now there was no vacuum advance.  So set the dist at 6 deg advance with no vacuum and then hook up the vacuum.

HP/TRQ are both down so this is not enough.   But the engine seems to run smoother, maybe just imagination. 

[green69rt]

Now with 10 Deg advance.  After this we made a run with 12 Deg advance and the power went down so it looks like 10 Deg with vacuum is good.

This was also the very best run-to-date for HP, 451 at 4600 RPM.  Nice wide TRQ band.  Maybe do some more tuning when I get the engine installed and my headers on.  My guess is that the smaller headers will add some HP/TRQ but I probably won't be able to tell when I'm driving around.

[Canadian1968]

Interesting. 

So you have your timing down.  But you did not do anything to the carb??  I don't see any A/F ratios on the dyno sheets. Do you know what the engine was running at?

I feel like there is some more power in there.   

Were the intake and heads gasket matched at???................ Sorry just looked at your very first post!!! You did have it them port matched 

[BSB67]

Thanks for posting.

It looks like the valve train is going away at 4600 - 4700 rpm or so.  The data look a bit unreliable after that.  I don't think the little changes you were making between runs explains the large swings in performance from run to run.  Did you guys actually do something to improve the valve train performance?  

I bet graphing the data of all runs on one large graph would be telling.

What was your oil pressure, and what weight oil did you use?

[Challenger340]

Yeah, something not happy and missing here ?

Power is up and down like a toilet seat and all over the map ?

[cdr]

Sorry I was not able to make it Mitch, I am still pretty sick, wish they would have had afr reading & try to address the valvetrain  issues, noise ect, that motor will make more power if that problem was fixed, & jetting of the carb, even where its at now it will scare the crap out of you.