Attention cbrestorations,......found one for you.

[smithenhiven]

Couldnt take many pics, as I spotted it while working, but found this 69 RT sitting on the side of a house today.  Had a quick chat with the owner, and he said he'd take $4000 for it.  Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced, and thats just what can be quickly seen, I can only imagine what the underside looks like.

[cbrestorations]

Couldnt take many pics, as I spotted it while working, but found this 69 RT sitting on the side of a house today.  Had a quick chat with the owner, and he said he'd take $4000 for it.  Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced, and thats just what can be quickly seen, I can only imagine what the underside looks like.

is that orange? 

[Challenger340]

No offense intended, just me personally....
But I'll never understand how anyone would buck up $4K.... let be ask $4K..... for a car that as you described Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced,.

I mean I know it's an R/T serial number, and kudo's to anyone brave enough for the undertaking on one that maybe should be saved ?
That said,
it just doesn't add up financially for me these days, to see people buying one for $4K, then spending $50K ? $60K ? $70K ? and even sometimes more on top trying  to restore one?
given,
as the boomer generation moves on there are some very fine examples coming out of the woodwork to be had, both "restored"... and some fine "originals", for far less money ?

I mean I also understand all the "personal satisfaction" arguments... I really do !
But if you stop for a minute, and add up all that "free labor" as well in the formula ? time being money ?

[smithenhiven]

Couldnt take many pics, as I spotted it while working, but found this 69 RT sitting on the side of a house today.  Had a quick chat with the owner, and he said he'd take $4000 for it.  Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced, and thats just what can be quickly seen, I can only imagine what the underside looks like.

is that orange? 

Kinda of, lol; original color is red though.

[timmycharger]

No offense intended, just me personally....
But I'll never understand how anyone would buck up $4K.... let be ask $4K..... for a car that as you described Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced,.

I mean I know it's an R/T serial number, and kudo's to anyone brave enough for the undertaking on one that maybe should be saved ?
That said,
it just doesn't add up financially for me these days, to see people buying one for $4K, then spending $50K ? $60K ? $70K ? and even sometimes more on top trying  to restore one?
given,
as the boomer generation moves on there are some very fine examples coming out of the woodwork to be had, both "restored"... and some fine "originals", for far less money ?

I mean I also understand all the "personal satisfaction" arguments... I really do !
But if you stop for a minute, and add up all that "free labor" as well in the formula ? time being money ?

Maybe not everyone has 50, 40, or even 30K to drop on a Charger all in one lump sum and all they can afford is 4 or 5k up front.  People with kids, mortgages, etc may find it easier to put aside 10 -15k a year to put into the car and over time, build the car they want.  Now I understand not everyone knows how to weld, build engines, etc, but if you are taking on a 4k car like the one above, then hopefully you have some skills.

It took me almost 20 years to build mine and I probably have about 40K into it including the car. Mine is not a real RT or a rare car but I would never have been able to afford to drop 40K on one at once with 3 kids, a house and other stuff life throws at you. 

[cbrestorations]

No offense intended, just me personally....
But I'll never understand how anyone would buck up $4K.... let be ask $4K..... for a car that as you described Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced,.

I mean I know it's an R/T serial number, and kudo's to anyone brave enough for the undertaking on one that maybe should be saved ?
That said,
it just doesn't add up financially for me these days, to see people buying one for $4K, then spending $50K ? $60K ? $70K ? and even sometimes more on top trying  to restore one?
given,
as the boomer generation moves on there are some very fine examples coming out of the woodwork to be had, both "restored"... and some fine "originals", for far less money ?

I mean I also understand all the "personal satisfaction" arguments... I really do !
But if you stop for a minute, and add up a couple o
Mall that "free labor" as well in the formula ? time being money ?

okolookooo

It's actually easier to just hack off all the junk metal and replace with new, no spot weld cutting, grinding or whatever to try and save the good metal. just Hack it all off and start laying new metal. If you do the car urself it shouldn't cost more than 30-35k to have a nice car

[Kern Dog]

I agree. The people spending 70 thousand may be spending their money paying others to weld, fabricate, do bodywork and paint, upholstery, etc. When you are able to do that stuff yourself , the costs are far less to build these cars.
Also...Some peoples standards are vastly different. One guy may send out everything to be sandblasted or dipped, another guy gets by with a wire wheel. I've never had my vent windows rechromed, some have and spent a bunch doing it. Lots of these parts can be found on other year B body cars, the dash parts are one example. Wire harnesses can be adapted from a Satellite, frame rails, K members, floor pans, etc.

[cbrestorations]

I agree. The people spending 70 thousand may be spending their money paying others to weld, fabricate, do bodywork and paint, upholstery, etc. When you are able to do that stuff yourself , the costs are far less to build these cars.
Also...Some peoples standards are vastly different. One guy may send out everything to be sandblasted or dipped, another guy gets by with a wire wheel. I've never had my vent windows rechromed, some have and spent a bunch doing it. Lots of these parts can be found on other year B body cars, the dash parts are one example. Wire harnesses can be adapted from a Satellite, frame rails, K members, floor pans, etc.

Yes you can still build a nice car on the down low, only thing real expensive you can't get around is metal and interior if it's all junk

[Kern Dog]

How about the cost of a grille? Holy CRAP those are expensive!
In 2006 at the Van Nuys Spring Fling, a guy at a swap space had a '70 Charger grille and front bumper for $450. I thought he was delusional. Today I'd be happy to pay double that!

[Challenger340]

No offense intended, just me personally....
But I'll never understand how anyone would buck up $4K.... let be ask $4K..... for a car that as you described Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced,.

I mean I know it's an R/T serial number, and kudo's to anyone brave enough for the undertaking on one that maybe should be saved ?
That said,
it just doesn't add up financially for me these days, to see people buying one for $4K, then spending $50K ? $60K ? $70K ? and even sometimes more on top trying  to restore one?
given,
as the boomer generation moves on there are some very fine examples coming out of the woodwork to be had, both "restored"... and some fine "originals", for far less money ?

I mean I also understand all the "personal satisfaction" arguments... I really do !
But if you stop for a minute, and add up a couple o
Mall that "free labor" as well in the formula ? time being money ?

okolookooo

It's actually easier to just hack off all the junk metal and replace with new, no spot weld cutting, grinding or whatever to try and save the good metal. just Hack it all off and start laying new metal. If you do the car urself it shouldn't cost more than 30-35k to have a nice car

Then there's the drivetrain ?
We can't do anything in the way of s decent 500hp pump gas 440 these days much under $10K complete & Dyno'd ?
I mean by the time a guy buys all the stuff to run on the Dyno..... just all adds up !
Then there's a Good Trans & Torque Converter ?
Rear End ?
Brakes & Suspension, Fuel System, Wiring and on and on ?

I see LOTS of guys dump another $20K + AFTER they have a nice body done so it can roll under it's own power !... and sometimes MUCH more !

[Kern Dog]

Not everyone wants or needs to spend Ten thousand dollars on an engine to enjoy the car. A good running 383 can be fun.
Many of you seem to think that the car has to be completely gone through. That type of thinking can discourage people before they ever start. These cars don't have to be SEMA show quality to be fun to drive. I have done and seen others do some real low buck stuff that works well. It isn't factory correct but it works.
I adapted a Chevy truck 1 1/4" sway bar for the front and an '83 Imperial rear sway bar. I made my own torque boxes and frame connectors. I traded body and paint to a guy that needed his Shop framed.  A guy here used grids from a room fan to make the center section for his '70 Charger grille. If you are not a snobby purist, you can have fun and not spend 40 thousand dollars. Barter, trade, swap meets, hand-me-down parts.

[chargervert]

I am seeing people saving Chargers worse than the rusty New England Chargers I used to cut up for parts back in the eighties. AMD has made it possible to save almost any second generation Charger.

[cbrestorations]

No offense intended, just me personally....
But I'll never understand how anyone would buck up $4K.... let be ask $4K..... for a car that as you described Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced,.

I mean I know it's an R/T serial number, and kudo's to anyone brave enough for the undertaking on one that maybe should be saved ?
That said,
it just doesn't add up financially for me these days, to see people buying one for $4K, then spending $50K ? $60K ? $70K ? and even sometimes more on top trying  to restore one?
given,
as the boomer generation moves on there are some very fine examples coming out of the woodwork to be had, both "restored"... and some fine "originals", for far less money ?

I mean I also understand all the "personal satisfaction" arguments... I really do !
But if you stop for a minute, and add up a couple o
Mall that "free labor" as well in the formula ? time being money ?

okolookooo

It's actually easier to just hack off all the junk metal and replace with new, no spot weld cutting, grinding or whatever to try and save the good metal. just Hack it all off and start laying new metal. If you do the car urself it shouldn't cost more than 30-35k to have a nice car

Then there's the drivetrain ?
We can't do anything in the way of s decent 500hp pump gas 440 these days much under $10K complete & Dyno'd ?
I mean by the time a guy buys all the stuff to run on the Dyno..... just all adds up !
Then there's a Good Trans & Torque Converter ?
Rear End ?
Brakes & Suspension, Fuel System, Wiring and on and on ?

I see LOTS of guys dump another $20K + AFTER they have a nice body done so it can roll under it's own power !... and sometimes MUCH more !

10k??? I have 10k in my 489 stroker with ceramic coated trick flow heads, roller cam, roller rockers, trick flow intake, new mopar valve covers, billet valley pan, aluminum water pump and housing, all studded motor with stud girdle, Hemi pan, truck flow balancer...exc. 727's are dirt cheap cores, rebuilt kit with labor and stall converter is around 1k. One of my chargers has a 506hp engine from the dyno with just cam, ported 906 heads, intake, carb and headers. Not an expensive motor. I beat the piss out of it

[DanielRobert]

I've never understood the argument 'free labor".  One of the most asked questions  someone wants to know is how much I've got into a car. They always follow up with "but what about all those hours of labor?"  I don't consider a value of that. I mean, do you buy a puzzle, spend countless hours putting it together, and then add that up to find the real cost of the puzzle?  I don't add 3 hours to the cost of a baseball ticket , either.

[gtx6970]

No offense intended, just me personally....
But I'll never understand how anyone would buck up $4K.... let be ask $4K..... for a car that as you described Rough doesnt begin to describe this car, it needs just about every piece of metal replaced,.

I mean I know it's an R/T serial number, and kudo's to anyone brave enough for the undertaking on one that maybe should be saved ?
That said,
it just doesn't add up financially for me these days, to see people buying one for $4K, then spending $50K ? $60K ? $70K ? and even sometimes more on top trying  to restore one?
given,
as the boomer generation moves on there are some very fine examples coming out of the woodwork to be had, both "restored"... and some fine "originals", for far less money ?

I mean I also understand all the "personal satisfaction" arguments... I really do !
But if you stop for a minute, and add up a couple o
Mall that "free labor" as well in the formula ? time being money ?

okolookooo

It's actually easier to just hack off all the junk metal and replace with new, no spot weld cutting, grinding or whatever to try and save the good metal. just Hack it all off and start laying new metal. If you do the car urself it shouldn't cost more than 30-35k to have a nice car

Agreed,
if one has the capabilities to weld ( if not take some classes and learn ) Most any car can be brought back from without spending $50 K or up.
The most recent car I did for a cliet was rusty 1968 Charger. We told him no to buy it but it was to late. He dove in head first and realized he was over his head. That's where I came in and took over.

All in from a rot box to done turn key car he has right about $60K ,,,maybe $65 in the car and loves it. I never really totaled it up but I think my labor alone came in about $25 or 30K .
So doing one

[Challenger340]

Quote from cbrestorations
[/quote]

10k??? I have 10k in my 489 stroker with ceramic coated trick flow heads, roller cam, roller rockers, trick flow intake, new mopar valve covers, billet valley pan, aluminum water pump and housing, all studded motor with stud girdle, Hemi pan, truck flow balancer...exc. 727's are dirt cheap cores, rebuilt kit with labor and stall converter is around 1k. One of my chargers has a 506hp engine from the dyno with just cam, ported 906 heads, intake, carb and headers. Not an expensive motor. I beat the piss out of it
[/quote]

IMO, and with all due respect here, I think you may have alot more than $10K in THAT 489 Engine Chris ?

If I were to go with "just".... and I mean JUST the parts you listed Chris ?  and I'll SKIP completely the ceramic coated Heads ?  I am already at $8,164.00 ??
And,
if I then assume that yours is a running engine ? then add up the "givens" to get it running that's another $1,643.00 ??

That's a Total of over $9,800.00 in Parts without even putting Oil in it Yet ?
Not To mention:
PAYING to have any Block Machining done ?
BUYING a Core 440 Block ?


Parts you Listed:
489 Stroker Kit.... $2299
Trick Flow Heads (2).... $2,050
Trick Flow Intake..... $350.
Comp Cams Hyd Roller Cam & Lifters..... $965.
"Decent" Roler Rocker Arms.... $1000. ?
Bronze Dizzy Bushing/Shaft..... $150.
Mopar v/Covers..... $160.
Billet Valley Pan.... $150.
Aluminum Water Pump & Housing.... $200.
El Cheapo Main Girdle W/Studs.... $350.
Trich Flow Head Studs.... $190.
El Cheapo Hemi Pan & Pickup.... $125.
Trick Flow Balancer.... $175.
_______________________________________
                                TOTAL $8,164.00

Parts to a "running" Engine:
HV Oil Pump... $93.
Carburetor .... $750 ?
Carburetor Studs/gskt... $10.
Pushrods.... $170.
Distributor.... $350
Plug Wires.... $100.
Spark Plugs.... $30.
Head Gaskets, Fel-Pro 1009 Probably.... $90.
Oil Pan Gaskets.... $20.
Remainder Gskts Set.... $30.
___________________________
             TOTAL $1,643.00  

[cbrestorations]

Not really, 383 engine was original to the car. Ceramic coating the heads was $300, Cam was $100 cheaper than ur post, distributor was only $150(firecore) and rockers were only $500. Fluids is only oil, it's sittin right now on the stand with $75 worth of beak in oil in it primed ready to go. With machine work it might be 10,750 but still in the 10k window. Should be 600hp with a mild roller cam, couldnof went bigger and make much more power but wanted a broad power band.

I would much rather have 10k into a 600-650hp engine than 10k into a 440 with ported heads. Was just saying money goes a lot farther than people think

[cbrestorations]

I could build a 500hp 440 for only around $3500, used aluminum intake, port the heads myself, assemble myself, 2500 in parts and 1k in Machine work. Done a few of them

[Challenger340]

I could build a 500hp 440 for only around $3500, used aluminum intake, port the heads myself, assemble myself, 2500 in parts and 1k in Machine work. Done a few of them

For yourself that's probably fine.... anything goes wrong ?  it happens to you.... no big deal !

But as a 'business" thing selling to others ?
You'd quickly become the HLPAG of Engine Building cutting all those corners !

[Challenger340]

Not really, 383 engine was original to the car. Ceramic coating the heads was $300, Cam was $100 cheaper than ur post, distributor was only $150(firecore) and rockers were only $500. Fluids is only oil, it's sittin right now on the stand with $75 worth of beak in oil in it primed ready to go. With machine work it might be 10,750 but still in the 10k window. Should be 600hp with a mild roller cam, couldnof went bigger and make much more power but wanted a broad power band.

I would much rather have 10k into a 600-650hp engine than 10k into a 440 with ported heads. Was just saying money goes a lot farther than people think

It's still on the stand ?
Hope everything works out well with it !

No offense but nothing is 600-650 hp until it's proven on a Dyno... or can reach a "mph" at the track with a time slip under a verified weight ?
I know that's the "target"... and I know it probably follows a "patent" proven build somebody else did...
Just say'in....
if I had a nickel for every time I've heard about an Engine that should be.... if ya know what I mean here ?
You'd be amazed how many times guys follow a "blueprint" or copy a magazine build to the letter, and don't even get close ?   Not saying your won't, it probably will.... but we've seen it all HERE !

[Challenger340]

Here's what I'm talking about.... when I said we can't do a 500 HP Pump Gas 440 anymore under $10K.... machined properly, done, finished & Dyno'd
https://www.performanceinjectionequipment.com/SHOP#!/Big-Block-440-Street/p/96506793/category=27035713

They want $7,450.00 but still needs:
Carburetor $750.00
Distributor/Wires/Plugs $300.00
Level 1 hand Ported Heads $500.00 (For the 515 hp)
Oil & Filter $75.00
V/Cover Breather $15.
and if I guessed the Final on the 8 Hr Dyno Day with Oil/Filter Changes and Fuel another $750.00
TOTAL $9,840.00

These guys same thing, by the time it's finished complete and Dyno'd the TOTAL is $10,000.00 for a 440 @ 500 hp
http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/DynoTestedPerformanceEngines/ChryslerPerformanceCrateEngines/tabid/117/Default.aspx

Another 440 at 475 HP.... but looks to be high quality Machining, done properly .... $13,695.00
https://www.proformanceunlimited.com/shop/chrysler-engines/440-big-block-mopar-crate-engine-475hp/

I mean I got nothing against the DIY guys, GO FOR IT if you think you can ?
Problem being that it's getting harder and harder for the DIY guys to access GOOD Machining for their DIY aspirations ? meaning harder and harder to obtain good results ? And if shit does go south it then ends up costing exponentially more trying to fix or re-do it TWICE ?

[cbrestorations]

Ohhh if ur having to pay a machine shop to do an entire engine build then yes you are right

[DanielRobert]

Challenger340.......if you don't understand why someone would pay a whole $4000 for a charger, what would you want them to do? Would it be better if he bought the car for $100 , saving a whole $3900! You state you understand the personal satisfaction of doing it yourself but do you? Seems to me your all about the financial aspect of owning a car. I put in an in-ground pool at my house and didn't see much of a jump in home value but thats not why i did it. Also have various dirt bikes and quads that are losing value, but thats not why I own them. Yeah, if you're buying as an investment, it has never made sense to pay someone to restore a basket case. We all have known that for like, ever.  So why point that out?

[Lennard]

Challenger340.......if you don't understand why someone would pay a whole $4000 for a charger, what would you want them to do? Would it be better if he bought the car for $100 , saving a whole $3900! You state you understand the personal satisfaction of doing it yourself but do you? Seems to me your all about the financial aspect of owning a car. I put in an in-ground pool at my house and didn't see much of a jump in home value but thats not why i did it. Also have various dirt bikes and quads that are losing value, but thats not why I own them. Yeah, if you're buying as an investment, it has never made sense to pay someone to restore a basket case. We all have known that for like, ever.  So why point that out?

So true. Some people just love to argue until the cows come home.

[Kern Dog]

I love these cars. I love seeing others enjoy them too.
Seeing Chris' videos of him thrashing around as if the car was a $500 POS is a kick in the pants. I'm not made of money but I also won't live forever. Why not do what I like while I'm still above ground? So what if a project ends up being more than the car is worth....What is FUN worth to you? Remember FUN? Remember not being obsessed with rock chips or scratches ? Remember driving the car on dirt roads and not wincing each time the car bottoms out?
No...you DON'T need to spend $10,000 on an engine.
No...you don't need an expensive paint job either.
Maybe the guys that prefer to sit in lawn chairs behind their cars at shows can't understand. To me, the guys that drive their cars are often the ones that have the best time with them even if they are not perfect. I am trying to be that guy. For too long, I worried too much about dings and scratches.