How to accessorize an HP 440

[rikubot]

Looking for some advice on how to set up the brackets for my alternator and power steering. The car originally had AC but I'm gonna run it without so id like the engine to look as if it never had the AC. Here it as after it was pulled. I'm getting it stripped, doing new gaskets, and getting is a real paint job, most likely Hemi orange. I'm not a stickler on factory correct, I'd just like to follow that idea when I have the chance and it doesn't hinder performance. I'll end up doing headers and Eddy intake and aluminum water pump and housing but not much more than that. Thanks.

[BLK 68 R/T]

If you want it to look like it never had a/c then you will need to change the crank and water pump pulleys, also the alternator brackets.

[rikubot]

I think that's it though, correct? Other than little stuff like the throttle return spring. And there would no longer be a tensioner pulley, correct?

[BLK 68 R/T]

Yep, technically the alternator would be a single groove pulley but the double will work just fine. No more tensioner pulley will be needed.

[rikubot]

I noticed that too despite my car only having the one going to it before I pulled it apart. I don't think I can change it out on that alternator either but that don't bother me too much.

[rikubot]

If I just have the power steering, shouldn't I be looking for a pulley with the two slots? What would the 4 slots have been for?

[BLK 68 R/T]

4 groove pulley = 2 belts for a/c, & alt. One for power steering and one for water pump.

[rikubot]

Ahh thanks. Makes perfect sense. I think that should do it. Any ideas where to find a two B pulley? They seem to be scarce online.

[ACUDANUT]

 Very easy fix. I think Mancini has the pulleys you need.  Or go to swap meet section here for sale or wanted.
I have never seen a water pump like the one you have. 

[BLK 68 R/T]

Very easy fix. I think Mancini has the pulleys you need.  Or go to swap meet section here for sale or wanted.
I have never seen a water pump like the one you have. 

Think it's just the aluminum fan spacer still bolted to the pump?

[rikubot]

I think you're right. It's one of two engines I've owned so I don't have much of a comparison. I am fairly certain that the place that did the rebuild and install 15 or so years ago installed the belts wrong because they pulled the A/C but reused the brackets so the tensioner was on the right side and the belts squeeled no matter how knew they were or how tight they were.

[Challenger340]

"HP" on a block just means that from "factory" it was an 'HP" Engine ONLY, and who knows what it is now ?
because once they are "rebuilt" and the factory Pistons/Cam etc., changed and replaced.... there is no telling what the engine will have for power, and the "HP" means absolutely NOTHING, a Block.... is a Block.... is a Block... "HP" or not.
And the sad fact remains.....
99% that have had "rebuilder" NAPA store Machine Shop rebuilds, typically have had the so-called stock "replacement" type CAST Pistons fitted when reboring/honing(or so the catalogs erroneously list them as), which are no where near the original factory compression ratio, basically DE-Nutting whatever factory HP performance was present originally.

[rikubot]

I know it's just the stamp on there and a corresponding vin stamp with an R/T car, but I just find it sad that a high performance engine "from the factory"  gets rebuilt with turd pistons. I have a '78 440 block that looks damn near identical and I think it's out of an RV. I should have figured it got basic pistons with the rebuild as we didn't have a lot of money then and I think the whole build cost $2400 in '02-'03. I like your term "de-nutting"  however I hate that my engine got de-nutted haha.

[ACUDANUT]

"HP" on a block just means that from "factory" it was an 'HP" Engine ONLY, and who knows what it is now ?
because once they are "rebuilt" and the factory Pistons/Cam etc., changed and replaced.... there is no telling what the engine will have for power, and the "HP" means absolutely NOTHING, a Block.... is a Block.... is a Block... "HP" or not.
And the sad fact remains.....
99% that have had "rebuilder" NAPA store Machine Shop rebuilds, typically have had the so-called stock "replacement" type CAST Pistons fitted when reboring/honing(or so the catalogs erroneously list them as), which are no where near the original factory compression ratio, basically DE-Nutting whatever factory HP performance was present originally.

I agree 100 percent.  I met a younger kid in his 20's and he tried educating that the HP block was 10 times better than a non HP engine..  I told him from the factory yes, however it was just bolt on items, only.  Carb, Cam, Windage tray and exhaust manifolds. That's it.

[Challenger340]

I know it's just the stamp on there and a corresponding vin stamp with an R/T car, but I just find it sad that a high performance engine "from the factory"  gets rebuilt with turd pistons. I have a '78 440 block that looks damn near identical and I think it's out of an RV. I should have figured it got basic pistons with the rebuild as we didn't have a lot of money then and I think the whole build cost $2400 in '02-'03. I like your term "de-nutting"  however I hate that my engine got de-nutted haha.

It's really very sad that so many of the factory HP "Magnum" Engines got de-Nutted during rebuilds over the decades, literally THOUSANDS during resto's/rewindes from the late 70's, 80's and 90's, and it's still happening unfortunately.

I characterize it as really "sad", because aside from shedding a very poor image of the original factory performance of these cars ? what's amazing to me is that the majority of owner's I've met who own some very beautifully restored high dollar examples, have absolutely NO CLUE what's missing in their "factory correct restored" engines ?

On more than a few occasions, the look of absolute shock on their faces when I have taken a few for a ride in our UN-restored & UN-REBUILT 440 HP '69 Charger R/T, with 140,000 miles on it, has been nothing short of Comical !

What I mean is this,
during conversations with other owners, you can verbally tell them, try to be polite, try to NOT to appear to be "diss'ing" anything, but no matter and to NO avail.... because in their minds they are never going to actually HEAR.... let be BELIEVE anything you say.....  until you actually SHOW them the "difference" by taking them for a ride ? Then, and only then, do the LIGHTS GO ON !

You do NOT need "Compression Ratio" for HP.... HP being a function of ability to do work @ rpm, with AirFlow and suitable Cam profile facilitating that higher rpm HP capability.....
albeit,
without satisfactory initial cylinder pressure(Static Compression Ratio) available under whatever Camshaft events present conducive to that desired rpm, still available down low to enhance the TORQUE curve, which is really what's it ALL ABOUT maintaining off idle and mid-range "seat of the pants" pull.

[rikubot]

Very good info guys, thanks. I don't intend to take my car down the quarter mile much (if at all) so I would be perfectly fine with something that has about what the factory claimed back in the day. I'd be ecstatic to be around 400. I think I've ridden in one un-rebuilt 440 and it was probably about 18 years ago, but I remember it got ya the "seat of the pants" that you're talking about. I sure would like a cruise in that R/T.

[BSB67]

I know it's just the stamp on there and a corresponding vin stamp with an R/T car, but I just find it sad that a high performance engine "from the factory"  gets rebuilt with turd pistons. I have a '78 440 block that looks damn near identical and I think it's out of an RV. I should have figured it got basic pistons with the rebuild as we didn't have a lot of money then and I think the whole build cost $2400 in '02-'03. I like your term "de-nutting"  however I hate that my engine got de-nutted haha.

It's really very sad that so many of the factory HP "Magnum" Engines got de-Nutted during rebuilds over the decades, literally THOUSANDS during resto's/rewindes from the late 70's, 80's and 90's, and it's still happening unfortunately.

I characterize it as really "sad", because aside from shedding a very poor image of the original factory performance of these cars ? what's amazing to me is that the majority of owner's I've met who own some very beautifully restored high dollar examples, have absolutely NO CLUE what's missing in their "factory correct restored" engines ?

On more than a few occasions, the look of absolute shock on their faces when I have taken a few for a ride in our UN-restored & UN-REBUILT 440 HP '69 Charger R/T, with 140,000 miles on it, has been nothing short of Comical !

What I mean is this,
during conversations with other owners, you can verbally tell them, try to be polite, try to NOT to appear to be "diss'ing" anything, but no matter and to NO avail.... because in their minds they are never going to actually HEAR.... let be BELIEVE anything you say.....  until you actually SHOW them the "difference" by taking them for a ride ? Then, and only then, do the LIGHTS GO ON !

You do NOT need "Compression Ratio" for HP.... HP being a function of ability to do work @ rpm, with AirFlow and suitable Cam profile facilitating that higher rpm HP capability.....
albeit,
without satisfactory initial cylinder pressure(Static Compression Ratio) available under whatever Camshaft events present conducive to that desired rpm, still available down low to enhance the TORQUE curve, which is really what's it ALL ABOUT maintaining off idle and mid-range "seat of the pants" pull.

The part that simply amazes me is this stupid piston thing has been going on since the mid 1980s (possibly longer) and continued until the mid 2000s, and still today to some degree.  How can so many owners, and so many machine shops plan to build a turd of a motor?  Actually, I do know why.

Today's challenge to to convince guys to not buy a "freshly rebuilt" 440 for $2,000.