The Willomet Charger

[Charger-Bodie]

Fair enough ....and mine is far from stock. I have coilovers for the front and a custom steering box (no R & P though). A day 1 or 2 restoration has little appeal to me. But I love watching the treads on here that are going that way....and the attention to detail is amazing.  

Yeah, my stuff doesn't remain all stock either.  I was just making a point.  

Although I do think the chassis design contributes to the 'heart and soul' as much as the engine.  So do the bias-plys.  And the carburetor.  All the quirks add up to make it a Charger.  When is the heart & soul lost?  I dunno.  I don't think it's the change of any specific one of them.  More like a cumulative amount.

Its sorta like asking "what is a muscle car?"  V8?  older model year?  2 doors? big block?  People want to make a mandatory checklist list but there are always exceptions.  It qualifies as a muscle car by having some number of these things total.

To me the mods you mention are there to improve the driving experience....better handling, brakes, modern tyres etc. But the engine is the heart and soul of the car.

An LS engine is to improve the driving experience here too.  The lighter weight (and indirectly, the dimensions) is part of the larger goal of moving weight off the front end.  If it wasn't a BIG priority then he wouldn't be mounting that engine halfway back inside the cabin.   That is a big PITA and he's not doing it for any other reason.

Im very jealous of his welding by the way....mine holds the metal together and is strong enough......but does not look anything like as pretty as that!!!

True dat.   Definitely.

Thats your opinion.

mine is that a mopar engine is as important as the body. yes aluminum isnt an easy tast but there are many acceptible mopar engine options.

[alfaitalia]

Fair enough ....and mine is far from stock. I have coilovers for the front and a custom steering box (no R & P though). A day 1 or 2 restoration has little appeal to me. But I love watching the treads on here that are going that way....and the attention to detail is amazing.  

Yeah, my stuff doesn't remain all stock either.  I was just making a point.  

Although I do think the chassis design contributes to the 'heart and soul' as much as the engine.  So do the bias-plys.  And the carburetor.  All the quirks add up to make it a Charger.  When is the heart & soul lost?  I dunno.  I don't think it's the change of any specific one of them.  More like a cumulative amount.

Its sorta like asking "what is a muscle car?"  V8?  older model year?  2 doors? big block?  Solid axle?  People want to make a mandatory checklist list but there are exceptions for all of it.  It qualifies as a muscle car by having some number of these things total.

To me the mods you mention are there to improve the driving experience....better handling, brakes, modern tyres etc. But the engine is the heart and soul of the car.

An LS engine is to improve the driving experience here too.  The lighter weight (and indirectly, the dimensions) is part of the larger goal of moving weight off the front end.  If it wasn't a BIG priority then he wouldn't be mounting that engine halfway back inside the cabin.   That is a big PITA and he's not doing it for any other reason. 

Im very jealous of his welding by the way....mine holds the metal together and is strong enough......but does not look anything like as pretty as that!!!

True dat.   Definitely.

Good reply!

[Mike DC]

Good reply! 2thumbs

Thanks. 

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

Let's catch up.

The footwells are welded and blended, the engine frame mounts are built and welded, the Rev1 engine cradle is built and installed, and I finally got to start in on the inner chassis rails.  Oh, and I'm also getting around to converting the TR6060 into a Magnum.

In order - welded up using regular 70S-2, and some silicone bronze smooths and blends the transition to from the foot well to the torque box and frame rail. I really like working with that stuff.












David

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

The first engine cradle design didn't work as I intended, so this is Rev1.  I'll ditch a design that isn't working before making do. The purpose of this assembly is to tie the mounts and rails together and provide another integration point for the front shear plate.








My settings: 190A, 25% balance, 200Hz, ~22* 2% La grind, 20 cf, 1/8" 5356 filler, a slight preheat, hot cup of coffee:










David

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

For workspace reasons, I had put off welding the inner chassis bits until the footwells and engine cradle were done.

Those sub-projects are done, and so we move on:




More lateral reinforcements coming:




Very close to stabbing the powertrain and beginning work on the trans mount:


But first - complete this conversion.  The TR6060 bellhousing/front cover is removed and a Magnum cover is in its place along with the tail housing.  The 3.01-related input shaft is 3/16" too long, but a 1/4" bellhousing spacer should correct that.  I'll do a more detailed post once complete:


Lots of good evenings and weekends ahead.

David

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

With the engine setting back that far, what will the access to hedder gasket change, or wire/plug swaps be like? Just thinking out loud about when the steering column is in there.

Could do a removable trans tunnel/engine cover? (like a van)

That's a great idea.  I've been thinking about access panels for maintenance, but a dog-house would be a really good all-in-one accessibility solution.

Very interesting thread - thought provoking and fun to see.  I like the way the engineering is going and will be interested to see the final product.  Thanks for sharing this with us.

I appreciate the feedback.  I'll keep at it.

David

[Lennard]

Again... Beautiful work!

[djcarguy]

awsum work an weld skills here.   

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

Again... Beautiful work!

Thank you.  I'm trying to balance aesthetics and function without sacrificing either.

awsum work an weld skills here.

I'm learning a lot as I go.  It's as much fun to build skills as it is a car.

David

[Dano 1]

Little late to the party but this is an awesome build and thread, keep up the great work!

As far as the powertrain debate goes, my opinion (for whatever that's worth) is do what you want and what makes sense. The LS platform is objectively really hard to argue with and quite frankly this car will be so custom by the time you're done it will really only be a Chrysler product in appearance anyway.

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

Little late to the party but this is an awesome build and thread, keep up the great work!

As far as the powertrain debate goes, my opinion (for whatever that's worth) is do what you want and what makes sense. The LS platform is objectively really hard to argue with and quite frankly this car will be so custom by the time you're done it will really only be a Chrysler product in appearance anyway.

Glad you're enjoying the build, and appreciate the kind words.

Here after another good few weeks of work, and a decent series of milestones. Lateral chassis bits are burned in.




Just about ready to stab the engine and trans.


First, need to keep the input shaft from an interference fit with the crank.  Quicktime RM199 1/4" bellhousing spacer leaves only a minor amount of contact, and just requires some light clearancing.


Maybe 1/32" of interference remaining.




Next up in the conversion - shifter rail.  Here's the shorter TR6060 rail.


Two position magnum takeoff.


Only thing really remaining to convert is the output shaft and pump mechanism, but it's setup enough for mockup purposes.

David

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

It's all details. Maximum effort shifter cover.


Because a $4.95 stamped steel cover is boring.


Stabbed.


Just enough rear angle for the heads to drain.


You can clearly see the 5* angle built into the magnum bell and tail housing.


Engine cradle detail.


That's about 1" of clearance.


David

[Willomet_Motor_and_Fab]

Finally able setup driving position.


Shifter is exactly in line with the steering wheel - just where I want it - no bent shifters in this muscle car.


Pretty proud of this one - midengine Charger.


Setup for a flat bottom, with only the oil pan and bellhousing dipping a couple of inches below the rocker beams.


A friend performing driver position duties.


The work continues.

David

[alfaitalia]

I know you have different terms for things over there but technically that's not a "mid engined charger" just because the engine is between the axles...When the engine is in front of the driver, but fully behind the front axle line, the layout is called a front mid-engine, rear drive, or FMR layout instead of the less-specific term front-engine; and can be considered a subset of the latter. In vehicle layout FMR is substantially the same as a front engine, rear drive car, but handling differs as a result of the difference in weight distribution.....being much less likely to spin....but virtually impossible to recover if you do! Historically and far more commonly the term "mid-engine" has been primarily applied to cars having the engine located between the driver and the rear drive axles. This layout is referred to as rear mid-engine, rear-wheel drive, (or RMR) layout. Just terminology I know and makes no difference to this very interesting build.

[Kern Dog]

I can appreciate the work but cannot grasp a man putting a GM engine in a Mopar.

[INTMD8]

Great fab work.      That is a ton of setback.  Need to do rocker arm actuated coil overs to fill up all the space in front of the engine

Where did you get the welding table with the holes in the surface?  Looking for something like that. (or maybe an old t-slot plate)

[Birdflu]

Looks like an exciting build! Gonna be a load of fun to drive with that tied unibody! 

[200MPH]

Great build ! your Car  Your  choice on the powerplant!

[chargervert]

I can appreciate the work but cannot grasp a man putting a GM engine in a Mopar.

To see such amazing fabrication work,on such a heavily modified Charger,and then see the Generic Motors belly button powerplant,takes the wind out of the sails on an otherwise cool Charger.

[Kern Dog]

I can appreciate the work but cannot grasp a man putting a GM engine in a Mopar.

To see such amazing fabrication work,on such a heavily modified Charger,and then see the Generic Motors belly button powerplant,takes the wind out of the sails on an otherwise cool Charger.

Detroit Speed and Marine built that Orange and black "MayHem" Charger a couple of years back.....Using some GM based front suspension design. I was just as disappointed in that.
The amount of effort put into this car, the cash as well...In the grand scheme, the additional cost of a Mopar Hemi is pennies. The used  5.7 engines are not hard to find nor expensive. A 6.1 or 6.4 is a bump in cost but still within reach.
The only reason I could see an engine from another make is if there were no viable engines available from the Parent automaker. Nowadays, GM, Ford and Dodge all have great engines to use in their classic cars.
The LS is cheaper....So with that logic I guess you will be using Harbor Freight nuts, bolts and washers....
Why cheap out like this?

[DAY CLONA]

Really nice build, your putting some time and thought into it along with quality work, there's a few here with blinders and feed bucket attached that can't wrap their heads around your engine choice, those are the one who forgot/forget what hot roddin is all about, I have 2 LS powered vehicles and can appreciate the power that is easily obtained from them, sure you could have dropped a gen3 HEMI in it, but it would be just another "bellybutton" build, a power plant is just that, a power plant... as long as it can lay down the power who cares who the mfg was that created it 

[Mike DC]

Detroit Speed and Marine built that Orange and black "MayHem" Charger a couple of years back.....Using some GM based front suspension design. I was just as disappointed in that.
The amount of effort put into this car, the cash as well...In the grand scheme, the additional cost of a Mopar Hemi is pennies. The used  5.7 engines are not hard to find nor expensive. A 6.1 or 6.4 is a bump in cost but still within reach.
The only reason I could see an engine from another make is if there were no viable engines available from the Parent automaker. Nowadays, GM, Ford and Dodge all have great engines to use in their classic cars.
The LS is cheaper....So with that logic I guess you will be using Harbor Freight nuts, bolts and washers....
Why cheap out like this?

We've been over this.

There are no affordable alloy V8 blocks from Mopar.  And the LS is narrower which makes the setback more do-able.  


The Mopar engine options are 'similar equivalents' - as long as you have different priorities from this build.  

[Kern Dog]

I do remember now about the aluminum block issue. Still...Why? What is 90 lbs in the general scheme of a 3500 lb car?

[Mike DC]

  

A small block vs big block is only about 100 lbs apart.  The difference is definitely 'noticeable' if you're into handling.  (In aggressive track circumstances it might be called 'obvious'.)

The engine setback would add some more to the gains.