What's the aluminum radiator of choice?

[Musclecarnut]

70 charger, mild 440,auto,AC, stock radiator with shroud,clutch fan right now. Having heating issues. Gonna go to an aftermarket aluminum radiator and electric fans I think. Car has an aftermarket aluminum water pump housing that's new along with the water pump. I swapped over to a stock style 8 blade impeller pump along with a new fan clutch but that's just not getting it and I don't even have the vintage air unit on yet. Trying to kill severl birds here with 1 stone. Thanks for the info

[JB400]

Are you running the 22 inch radiator, or the 26?

[Musclecarnut]

26, there's only around 5.5" from radiator support to face of water pump. It's tight in there

[Challenger340]

Stock original 50 year old 22" Radiator/Water Pump/Pulleys/160* Thermostat for me('69 440 Magnum original/Un-rebuilt), and no problems whatsoever at ANY time, stop & go/parked traffic condition up to 95* ?

just sayin.....
tuning/setup/lots of other things may be contributing to your overheat ?

[NHCharger]

As Chally340 said there are a lot of thingns to factor in when it comes to running hot/overheating.
I just got my Daytona clone on the road and the hottest weather I ran it in so far was this morning, 85º.
I'm running a Wizard Cooling aluminum radiator rated for 500HP. 180º t-stat, stock water pump. I couldn't swallow the price for a new 7 blade fan from year one so I bought a 6 blade flexi fan for now. So far-so good. No fan clutch. It gets up to 200-205º in stop and go traffic but seems to top out there. (Also running Zerex G-05 with distilled water and a bottle of Water Wetter. According to the wing guys this helps.)
I stopped by my engine builders shop to show him the car. We discussed overheating since we have a hot streak coming. He insists a 190º tstat is the best way to go.

[Challenger340]

As Chally340 said there are a lot of thingns to factor in when it comes to running hot/overheating.
I just got my Daytona clone on the road and the hottest weather I ran it in so far was this morning, 85º.
I'm running a Wizard Cooling aluminum radiator rated for 500HP. 180º t-stat, stock water pump. I couldn't swallow the price for a new 7 blade fan from year one so I bought a 6 blade flexi fan for now. So far-so good. No fan clutch. It gets up to 200-205º in stop and go traffic but seems to top out there. (Also running Zerex G-05 with distilled water and a bottle of Water Wetter. According to the wing guys this helps.)
I stopped by my engine builders shop to show him the car. We discussed overheating since we have a hot streak coming. He insists a 190º tstat is the best way to go.

Just curious, did your builder give you any rationale as to why a 190* Thermo is the way to go ?

Not many Cars/Manu's in the 60's into the 70's ever reccommended anything higher than a 160* in summer, and 180* as a "winter" change for the colder weather.  

190* Thermo's were an emissions thing to combat Oxides of Nitrogen(brown hazy smog) thing into the 70's & 80's to push "peak" combustion temps higher than 2400* F and get more complete combustion.  
If I remember correctly,
as the Engine Comp Ratios dropped into the 70's, they found that for every 1* water temp increase in running temp they could increase peak combustion temps 15*, and get above the magic 2400* PEAK Combustion Temp, below which Oxides of Nitrogen are more readily produced.

Hence into the 70's & 80's moving from 160* thermo's to 180* F Thermos added 300*F to Peaks combatting Oxides of Nitrogen production. (NOT Nitrous Oxide LOL)

I can't think of any reason to run a 190* thermostat in any of these legacy engines today, especially in summer ?

[BSB67]

NOx goes up with increased combustion temperatures, not down.  If 195° was an emission thing,  it would be to reduce CO, and/or HC.

There are other advantages that 195° offers that might be part or the sole reason that the manufacturers went to it. The flip side is you might be giving up a little power with a hotter thermostat.

If your 195° thermostat is working properly, it will not be the reason for overheating.

I use a 160° on my muscle cars simply because I don't want to give up the potential power bump.  I have no real proof that it is real, meaningful, or measurable.

I use a Griffin radiator.  Works well.  Not cheap.  Customer service was not too good for me.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Bottom line on stats- the temp advertised is when the stat STARTS to open, not the temp your engine will run at. 15- 20 degrees above the advertised number is normal. If your 195 stat is running the engine 210, thats normal.
   The 1st thing you do in any performance tuning upgrade on  fuel injected cars is ditch the stock 205+ stat and  drop back to a 180 prior to tuning.

[Challenger340]

NOx goes up with increased combustion temperatures, not down.  If 195° was an emission thing,  it would be to reduce CO, and/or HC.

I can't remember, it had something to do with a more "complete" burn at the higher Combustion Temps promoted with higher ambient engine temps ? And although Oxides of Nitrogen are produced at higher Combustion Temps there is a "break point" where they start to reduce again around 2400* Peak Temps.

Either way,
if your Engine is overheating with a 190* in summer and can't handle it, NO BRAINER to drop to a 160* ?
and,
case in point I reference our old original Charger R/T, stock 50 year old 22" rad, original everything including a 160* Thermostat, can sit in stop & go or "Bumper to Bumper" on 90+ Degree days with no problems, just climbs a little higher in the normal range.

[NHCharger]

Just curious, did your builder give you any rationale as to why a 190* Thermo is the way to go ?

His reasoning is that the t stat doesn't cycle as much so the water in the radiator sits in the radiator longer allowing it to cool down more before being cycled back into the engine. Where as a 160º t-stat would be open a lot more, maybe constantly in hot weather and the water in the radiator wouldn't have a chance to cool down much before cycling back into the engine and eventually the car would over heat.
Not sure if I buy that theory. The only car I had overheat was my 72 Charger, 318, stock radiator, 160º t-stat, no fan clutch or shroud. Stuck in 100º heat traffic jam caused by paving the highway in PA on the way to Carlisle. ended up peeling off the highway and driving thru corn fields/ rural towns, anything to keep moving. Even tried the old trick of running the heater on high to try a suck some of the heat out of the system. Not sure if it worked but it made me a lot more miserable.

[Challenger340]

Just curious, did your builder give you any rationale as to why a 190* Thermo is the way to go ?

His reasoning is that the t stat doesn't cycle as much so the water in the radiator sits in the radiator longer allowing it to cool down more before being cycled back into the engine. Where as a 160º t-stat would be open a lot more, maybe constantly in hot weather and the water in the radiator wouldn't have a chance to cool down much before cycling back into the engine and eventually the car would over heat.
Not sure if I buy that theory. The only car I had overheat was my 72 Charger, 318, stock radiator, 160º t-stat, no fan clutch or shroud. Stuck in 100º heat traffic jam caused by paving the highway in PA on the way to Carlisle. ended up peeling off the highway and driving thru corn fields/ rural towns, anything to keep moving. Even tried the old trick of running the heater on high to try a suck some of the heat out of the system. Not sure if it worked but it made me a lot more miserable.

OK Thx,
Yep, that's one of the 2 theories out there
1.) "time" as it relates to how long the coolant has in the radiator to release it's heat(it's also absorbing more in the water jackets to release), which each 1 Lb pressure on the Rad cap = 3*F increase in coolant Boiling Pt can be quickly exceeded.
and
2.) "Speed" as it related to how fast it travels through the Engine Water Jackets & Heads @ pressure to take the Heat away, which was the late Grumpy Jenkins mantra he wrote about extensively prior to reverse flow systems. It's just getting the size of the bypass hole(s) drilled in a 160* t-stat correct.

IMO, I think something else may have been dramatically wrong to have a 318 in a '72 Charger over heat that bad ?

Good Luck with it.
I still believe Timing/Tune/Fuel Mixtures, and how much of the Cylinder Wall is exposed to "peak" Combustion Temps, and for how long ?  as the main culprit behind many overheat issues. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

At hot temps such as 205, 210, 220 etc, the 160 or 180 stat means nothing as both are at full flow and not cycling. Even the 195 is wide open by overheat temps so if you are over 200 degrees,  the 160 or 180 is not the reason.

[alfaitalia]

Agreed...the stat only really controls the temp to the water starts flowing through the radiator....so really its only stopping the engine running too cold (For example by closing again when on the freeway and the lots of air might start to overcool the engine). Stat has next to nothing to do with how hot an engine gets....that's controlled by when your fan viscous coupling (or switch if its electric) lock the fan full on...or triggers the fan motor. Radiator size, capacity, air flow through the rad, shroud, all help control the upper temp your engine will get too....not fitting a cooler stat. At very best fitting one will just mean your engine will take a little longer to over heat....but it wont stop it.

[krops cars]

I purchased a Northern radiator with fans and wiring kit. It is awesome and fans are not loud. Had to drill a couple holes no big deal. They also have direct replacement. They have been building radiators longer than I have been alive. If you call them they will help get the right radiator for your application and know what they are talking about.

[440]

I remember Don from FBO recommended higher temp thermostats with alloy headed engines. This was a long time ago but I vaguely remember him saying to keep heat in the cylinder head for and a cleaner burn?? I almost want to say 230f which always sat funny with me, maybe for a dedicated race car..... ?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I remember Don from FBO recommended higher temp thermostats with alloy headed engines. This was a long time ago but I vaguely remember him saying to keep heat in the cylinder head for and a cleaner burn?? I almost want to say 230f which always sat funny with me, maybe for a dedicated race car..... ?

As a dedicated race car, we usually dont run stats at all. Roll into the waterbox at 150, staged by 170, cooldown between rounds.

[Mike DC]

As a dedicated race car, we usually dont run stats at all. Roll into the waterbox at 150, staged by 170, cooldown between rounds.

Do you run a big washer or something to restrict the size of the open T-stat hole? 

[c00nhunterjoe]

As a dedicated race car, we usually dont run stats at all. Roll into the waterbox at 150, staged by 170, cooldown between rounds.

Do you run a big washer or something to restrict the size of the open T-stat hole?  

All aluminum 572, all steel superstock 426 with filled block, and my frankenstein 440 with a filled block are all open unrestricted. 572 rad is tiny. Would have to measure but 16" at best. 426 and 440 are aluminium downflow, factory style replacements all with electric puller fans and electric water pumps. Meizeire on the 572 and 426, stock style housing with bolt in elec on my 440. 572 has never been on the street. 426 and 440 are summer driven and idled in traffic without issue.

[68CoronetRT]

Well today we had a heat wave and I had to take the Dodge to work. 106 degrees out. Temps never went over 190 with a 160 stat and FlowKooler water pump. Cruising at highway speeds kept it around 182 or so. This is with a 22" aluminum 2 row radiator.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Sounds good for that temp

[Challenger340]

At hot temps such as 205, 210, 220 etc, the 160 or 180 stat means nothing as both are at full flow and not cycling. Even the 195 is wide open by overheat temps so if you are over 200 degrees,  the 160 or 180 is not the reason.

Stats don't just 'pop' open, nor 'pop' closed again at their rated temps ?
It takes some degree's above and below their temp and time to open and flow fully. But no matter, just say'in that is 160* stat is full open by 165-170 and reducing/cooling that heat sink build up into the block and coolant waaaay before a 190* is even beginning to think about opening.

Like I said, no matter, do whatever feels right for your application.
All I know is that when I ran a 190" in mine in summers it WILL get hot and close to overheat in traffic ? with engine run-on after shut off, and I even heard the rad "gurgling" once, hence why I switched to the 160* as I don't winter drive anyways obviously.
whereas,
the difference was that with the 160 T-stat installed, it runs cool as a cucumber even sitting in Bumper to Bumper Traffic at 90+

[c00nhunterjoe]

At hot temps such as 205, 210, 220 etc, the 160 or 180 stat means nothing as both are at full flow and not cycling. Even the 195 is wide open by overheat temps so if you are over 200 degrees,  the 160 or 180 is not the reason.

Stats don't just 'pop' open, nor 'pop' closed again at their rated temps ?
It takes some degree's above and below their temp and time to open and flow fully. But no matter, just say'in that is 160* stat is full open by 165-170 and reducing/cooling that heat sink build up into the block and coolant waaaay before a 190* is even beginning to think about opening. Fwiw, i would never run a 190 in a big block mopar.

Like I said, no matter, do whatever feels right for your application.
All I know is that when I ran a 190" in mine in summers it WILL get hot and close to overheat in traffic ? with engine run-on after shut off, and I even heard the rad "gurgling" once, hence why I switched to the 160* as I don't winter drive anyways obviously.
whereas,
the difference was that with the 160 T-stat installed, it runs cool as a cucumber even sitting in Bumper to Bumper Traffic at 90+

I think you mistook me. I said the same thing you just did. It was in response to his engine guy saying that changing from the 180 to a 190 would help. There is usually a 20* variable in the stats from advertised to actual. And regardless, if he has a 180 in it and its overheating at say- 220, a 190 will do absolutely nothing for him as the 160, 180, and 190 will all be at full flow at 220 degrees. If you are at those temps, the stat is not your problem.

[alfaitalia]

At hot temps such as 205, 210, 220 etc, the 160 or 180 stat means nothing as both are at full flow and not cycling. Even the 195 is wide open by overheat temps so if you are over 200 degrees,  the 160 or 180 is not the reason.

Stats don't just 'pop' open, nor 'pop' closed again at their rated temps ?
It takes some degree's above and below their temp and time to open and flow fully. But no matter, just say'in that is 160* stat is full open by 165-170 and reducing/cooling that heat sink build up into the block and coolant waaaay before a 190* is even beginning to think about opening.

Like I said, no matter, do whatever feels right for your application.
All I know is that when I ran a 190" in mine in summers it WILL get hot and close to overheat in traffic ? with engine run-on after shut off, and I even heard the rad "gurgling" once, hence why I switched to the 160* as I don't winter drive anyways obviously.
whereas,
the difference was that with the 160 T-stat installed, it runs cool as a cucumber even sitting in Bumper to Bumper Traffic at 90+

Not doubting you.....but how does a lower temp stat help the motor run cooler in traffic? When its open ( at around 160 in your case) that it... its open and unless your engine should cool right down (unlikely in traffic) it will just stay wide open....it has no effect on the upper limit the engine temp will reach. As said before that's down to when your fan is at full speed....or, in the case of electric fans when the temp limit is reached and the electric switch kicks in the fan. The stat ONLY controls the temp at which the water starts to flow through the rad....which is why when a fan fails jammed open it takes forever for the engine to warm up....but it will still reach the same temp eventually..(in slow traffic at least) . The only difference is the motor might run too cold on the freeway due to overcooling as the waters always flows through the rad. So how does a lower temp stat get your engine running cooler in traffic. I just cant see it makes any difference.

[krops cars]

Some engines ran with out t stats can cause cylinder head damage because the t stat helps the water flow and even temp in the head. If a vehicle over heats  or runs warm with the t stat in, you have other issues. No shroud, bad radiator, or something else.

[Challenger340]

At hot temps such as 205, 210, 220 etc, the 160 or 180 stat means nothing as both are at full flow and not cycling. Even the 195 is wide open by overheat temps so if you are over 200 degrees,  the 160 or 180 is not the reason.

Stats don't just 'pop' open, nor 'pop' closed again at their rated temps ?
It takes some degree's above and below their temp and time to open and flow fully. But no matter, just say'in that is 160* stat is full open by 165-170 and reducing/cooling that heat sink build up into the block and coolant waaaay before a 190* is even beginning to think about opening.

Like I said, no matter, do whatever feels right for your application.
All I know is that when I ran a 190" in mine in summers it WILL get hot and close to overheat in traffic ? with engine run-on after shut off, and I even heard the rad "gurgling" once, hence why I switched to the 160* as I don't winter drive anyways obviously.
whereas,
the difference was that with the 160 T-stat installed, it runs cool as a cucumber even sitting in Bumper to Bumper Traffic at 90+

Not doubting you.....but how does a lower temp stat help the motor run cooler in traffic? When its open ( at around 160 in your case) that it... its open and unless your engine should cool right down (unlikely in traffic) it will just stay wide open....it has no effect on the upper limit the engine temp will reach. As said before that's down to when your fan is at full speed....or, in the case of electric fans when the temp limit is reached and the electric switch kicks in the fan. The stat ONLY controls the temp at which the water starts to flow through the rad....which is why when a fan fails jammed open it takes forever for the engine to warm up....but it will still reach the same temp eventually..(in slow traffic at least) . The only difference is the motor might run too cold on the freeway due to overcooling as the waters always flows through the rad. So how does a lower temp stat get your engine running cooler in traffic. I just cant see it makes any difference.

If you have a 50* cooling range from 160* to 210* within which the cooling system can apply it's full flow cooling..... versus.... trying to cool within say a 20* range opening a 190* T-stat at 190-195* to 210* or to boiling where-ever ?

You guys DO whatever you wish

I'll stay with what works and runs cool as a cucumber in my stock/original 50 year old 22" Radiator(no shroud) cooling my original un-rebuilt '69 440 Magnum,
which,
is also co-incidentally what the factory manual said to use for summer/hot weather...... being a 160* T-Stat.