I called Orignial owner of my 69 Charger and...........

[Bad B-rad]

It would be great, if I had the money, and if I could track down the original dealer ship where my car was sold, and try to by the original show room floor,(carpet,tile, wood, what ever)  that way when people say I bought it off the show room floor, I can say,OH YEAH!!!! Well I bought the actual showroom floor, so suck it!!!!!



And good call guys, mine is a 1 of 2, but it is the only 69 I have!

[bill440rt]

I bought my '70 R/T back in the late '80's, and it came with every bit of paperwork since day one. I had a list of every owner's name, including the original owner who was on the bill of sale.
I also had the window sticker, so I knew where the car was sold. Rumor had it the original owner was in his mid-50's at the time of purchase, so I never bothered to contact him thinking he might have been long gone.
It wasn't until about 6 years ago that I decided why not look them up, if anything just to trace a little more history about the car.
Being the 5th owner, I already knew the 4th. Owner's #2 & #3 were dead ends. I Googled the original owner's name, thinking I might just find a relative. All I had was his name, and the town. One popped up in the same town where he was from, and where I bought the car in the '80's. The car remained in the same area since new until I bought it.
On the first call, and elderly woman answered the phone. I asked for the gentleman's name, she asked why & I told her I was tracing a car's history and his name is on the paperwork.
The man said hello, & my heart was pounding. I told him my name, and that I was researching a car I own with his name as the original owner. He asked what kind of car, and I told him a purple 1970 Charger R/T. "Oh yes, I had one", he said. I had found the original owner.
Even though I had tons of paperwork already, the amount of information and stories he told me about his adventures in that car were priceless. He, his wife, and entire family were elated to hear the car still existed and was restored & well cared for. We exchanged pictures, and he even sent me vintage pictures when he owned the car and the day he bought it. The similarities between his stories and mine were so similar it was eerie.
We wrote each other back & forth for quite some time & became very good friends. Haven't talked to him in a while, though.
And we live on opposite sides of the country.   

[Kern Dog]

Bill, that is a nice story to hear. Being a car guy, I can appreciate that. I usually do not want to know from people that have bought cars from me. In most instances, the car is in worse shape and I hate to see that.

[Bad B-rad]

Well I got in touch with the BROTHER of the nephew, who bought it from the uncle, who owned it and crashed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He seams like a GREAT GUY, and he is looking into it.
He said what he remembers is his uncle hit a telephone pole with it, and always wanted to have it repaired, himself because it had no miles on it.(thats why in storage from about 1982 till 2012) when he sold it to this guys brother!!!!!


Oh man this  is a HUGE step. I hope he comes thru with some more info, or even hooks up the uncle with my number!!!!
This is very, very big to me!!!!!!
Not everyone can get this kind of history!!!
And on a car that was 11 years old when I was born, and wrecked when I was two!!!!
It is a GOOD DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DixieRestoParts]

 

[Bad B-rad]

Well the nephew was a man of his word, about an hr ago I got off the phone with the original owner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well the 2nd owner, I was told he was the first owner, but speaking with him he set me right.
He bought the car just about when he got out of high school from a guy(who's name he gave me) and car only had 2, or 3,000 miles, on it.
He said all the paper work from all service work(oil changes, fuel fill ups) was in a little folder in the glove box when he bought it.
He said car was in mint shape when he bought it.
He used it as an everyday car for a few years, then went to San Fran for a few years, (Left on a motor cycle, car was at brothers house) and at first his buddy would drop by and start it every so often, then it was his sister, then when she could not do it anymore, he came home one weekend  and filled the cylinders with kero, and left it.
When he returned home from 'Frisco(sound like I am in Vanishing Point) He drained the oil, pulled the spark plugs, and fired her right up. He drove it for a bit, and then tagged a tree!!
He continued to drive it like that, with the 1/4 smashed, for approx. one to two years.
Then the car went into storage again.
In 2006 he said his nephew(NOT the kid I spoke with) was on his case to sell him the car, he said he really wanted to drive it and restore it. He said they just watched Vanishing Point on TV and when they were chasing each other, the nephew convinced him to sell it to him so he could fix it up.(I am gonna guess the V.P. remake with Jason Preastley)
SO he let his nephew have it for $500 bucks.
He said he knew it was worth more then that(this is 2006 now remember)but he was doing a family favor, and gave him a bunch of extra parts with it, including the folder with all of the orignial owners service paper work, and his service paper work in it.
And a set of blue bucket seats from his 70 Charger SE(that were in the car when I bought it!!)
So on his way home from work TWO DAYS LATER, he spots the car on a trailer(same trailer he helped his nephew load it on, to take to the shop for resto work) bound for San Berdino CA. And the Nephew sold it for $9,600.00 BUCKS.

He expressed some anger, and hurt over that, and said he really could have used the cash, at the time but was trying to help the kid out, and the nephew had no intention of ever restoring it, it was just a quick flip.

So, when he sold the car to his nephew,in his words, the car looked to be in good/vr good shape,besides the 1/4 panel smash, paint was good, still has the vinyl top, and orignial green seats, and carpet, inside was nice
The guy I bought it from said he never did anything with it, but when I got it, the carpet was gone, and the top was gone, and it had the blue seats in it.

So funny story, I found the build sheet in  the 70 seats for the blue Charger 383 4Bbl auto SE car, they came from, so it was funny to hear him describe the car the seats came from, like two days after I decoded the build sheet!!!!LOL.
I got lucky and also found my cars build sheet in the rear seat back.



So I got a lot of info from him, and parts of what I was told were right on, and other parts were not so right on.
I will be the third guy to have the car on the road, and he got it in 77/78.

He was a great guy to talk to, VERY happy to hear about the car still is around, very surprised I gave a crap about where the car came from, and he was surprised to hear i wanted to talk to him about it.
It was 100% different then when I called the guys brother, and got hung up on!!!!

I am a bit hard of hearing myself, and we chatted for 35-45 MIN, I didnt get to ask all the questions I wanted to, and may have had a hard time hearing some things, but he gave me his address to send him a photo of the car, when I get it done.
(would be bad ass to plan a trip across the USA to return the car to CA and give him a ride in it, maybe find the tree that wrecked the 1/4 panel, and piss on it!!, (that wil show the tree who the boss is,LOL)
So I will be calling him again. And I can now search for the man he said he bought it from, LOL!!!
He said he is not sure if that guy is still alive, but I at least made it this far.
And I got some of the cars history. Maybe I should drive to CA, and film it and cut some of that tree down to keep in the trunk(get it, tree/trunk!!!) for car showes,LOL!!!!!

Very good day, So glad I didnt give up!
So gladd he was nothing like his brother who hung up on me!!!!

Side note someone in the family told me the guy I called first, who hung up on me was an @$$hole, their words not mine!!!!!!!!!

[tan top]

wow good story , thanks for sharing , great stuff when you can find your chargers / cars history 

[Kern Dog]

That is cool, man. Glad to hear that it panned out.
I'd be pissed at the jerkoff that begged to buy it, only to sell it later for almost 10 times the amount. If the ungrateful prick were to share the money with the Uncle it would have made it better but it still looks like deception. I hate people like that. You don't have to lie to make it in this world. He burned a bridge and will certainly encounter some problem or another in the future due to this Karma.

[Bad B-rad]

OH yeah, Kern Dog you are right on 100%.
The nephew has passed away, and it has been 11 years, but you could tell in his voice he was hurt, by the trick played on him. I mean two feaking days later!!!
TWO DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The uncle doesn't know me, but as the time went on he opened up about it a bit, and I know how bad that must suck.
I even said to him would be different if the nephew went to the uncle and said I got a great offer I could not pass up, here is four grand. Nope, NOT A PENNEY.

I felt bad for the guy, but Not much can be done about it now.

I am just stoked.
and I wish that paper work had made it to me, (would help prove the mileage)along with the original seats.
Took me a year to find a set of 69 seats, and they need a recover, and foam!!

[Tilar]

That's pretty cool 

[Kern Dog]

At first, I was indifferent about the prospect of contact with a prior owner. Your story turned out great and I'm glad for you.
Score! 

[Bad B-rad]

Thanks, I am glad I got to know some of the cars history.
It isn't a super great, exciting story, but it is my cars story, and maybe one day, in 60 years some dude will know the story, and add my ownership to the mix!
I will be the cool dude who restored and saved the car!!!

[TPR]

Good story. Glad your perseverance paid off.
TPR

[DixieRestoParts]

Great to hear you spoke with the original owner. I wonder if the uncle who was such a jerk was the dad of the nephew who flipped it?

I think it might be a cool idea to send the original owner pics of the as it is car now along with you beside it, and a brief description of your plans for the car. Send him pics of it as you progress in the restoration. Did he have any pics from when he owned the car? Would be cool to get those. The original owner sounds like a good dude and I think he may appreciate that.

After it's done, a road trip is an awesome idea!! If the original owner is up for a visit, nice thing to record on the way for posterity for your own family.

[AKcharger]

Smart move bad b rad, You did your part...let it go.

For the '70 I went back through 3 owners up in Alaska, they were nice. I have the title records/ names of all owners going back to original purchase in Tucson AZ, but lost interest. I have original sales documents for the '72 but didn't pursue it.

[Bad B-rad]

Great to hear you spoke with the original owner. I wonder if the uncle who was such a jerk was the dad of the nephew who flipped it?

I think it might be a cool idea to send the original owner pics of the as it is car now along with you beside it, and a brief description of your plans for the car. Send him pics of it as you progress in the restoration. Did he have any pics from when he owned the car? Would be cool to get those. The original owner sounds like a good dude and I think he may appreciate that.

After it's done, a road trip is an awesome idea!! If the original owner is up for a visit, nice thing to record on the way for posterity for your own family.

When I made the call, I grabbed a note book to take notes and write stuff down on, and due to the bad reception, my bad hearing(due to work and loud rock and roll music!!) and my general excitement, I didn't get to ask all the question I wanted to, and I don't want to bug him with another phone call so soon.
I think I will send him a letter and photo and ask a bit more info.
But besides the lack of vinyl top, and lack of  carpet, and front seat swap car seams to be in same shape as he had it in.
The guy I bought it from, is the one who bought it from the nephew, and I know he had it for 9 or 10 years.
He was NOT mechanicl inclinded, and he had the car inside for a few years, then it sat outside, for the rest of the time.
I am going to guess that is when the sun killed the top, and carpet, and also dried the door panels out. But he told me he did nothing with the car, he planned on having it restored, but it never happened. I think, he was more into having a possible General Lee clone, then owning a Charger, and that was just based on his total lack of any Mopar specific knowledge.

I def want to ask for some photos of the car when he owned it, and I am fairly sure he will help if he has them, he is definitely  a car guy(not a 100% Mopar guy, but a car guy) He talks of visiting the drag strip with his blue 70 Charger SE, and said the 69 was his everyday car the 70 was his race car, had it up to 137MPH, or 147MPH.

I would like to ask about what rims it wore when he let it go(it arrived with a pair of 15 inch Cragar style wheels with MAG type lug nuts, one Magnum 500, and one steel wheel from like minivan.

I would also like to ask about the "CARKITT"(something like that) decal under the hood, it sayes something to the effect that the car has some CA, type emmission tuning, and to not mess with distributer, of carb.

He was a great dude, couldn't ask for a more helpful guy.
And I even think it must be a little tough, because he held on to it for SO LONG, only to basicly give it to his nephew, who sold it two days later, and made a mint.
That must be hard to keep reliving.
But he was great with me.
I doubt that I will have the free time or money to finish the car, and take a 2,935 mile (42HR) trip with it,to take him for a ride, maybe lunch, and then take the 2,935mile trip back home.
I would love to do so, would be so freaking cool, and would be what a big part of our hobby is about, enjoying the history and
driving these cars, and doing so with other like minded people.
Would be an awsome trip, I have traveled a TON in my life, but Tulsa is as far west as I have ever been.
(unless someone with deep pockets and a camera would like to fund the project and film it!!? Maybe a new segment for GYC, called Restore and Reunite??!!  Come on Mark Worman, send Royal to ride shotgun, and we can act out when he tagged the tree, like the crash with the ford truck and the phantom Cuda)

So I will at least follow up with a nice letter and photo, and include a SASE and maybe a gift card for dinner, I am sending one to the nephew who put us in touch, for his help!!!
I will hopefully get some more info, and maybe photos, but the letter will allow me to at least take my time with the questions, so I dont forget in the heat of the moment, and I can get his written account of the mileage.

[Kern Dog]

The decals under the hood may have been the mid 1980s era first attempt to reduce smog in the more populated California regions. I don't know all of the details but I recall the decals being in construction yellow with dashed lines, the word NOX was visible somewhere....The kits were designed to be fitted to pre 1975 cars (Built without catalytic converters) to reduce Hydrocarbons and Nitrogen Oxide (NOX) emissions. Some of the kits used a vapor recovery system, an ignition timing reduction and maybe even a reduced jet size for the carburetor. My 69 Dart (First car) had this CAR KITT style sickers underhood and on the inside of the windshield. My 70 Charger had one under the hood. I now wish that I had taken pictures. It is strange how the insignificant things become important later, like the parts we gave away or threw out that people really want now!

[Bad B-rad]

The decals under the hood may have been the mid 1980s era first attempt to reduce smog in the more populated California regions. I don't know all of the details but I recall the decals being in construction yellow with dashed lines, the word NOX was visible somewhere....The kits were designed to be fitted to pre 1975 cars (Built without catalytic converters) to reduce Hydrocarbons and Nitrogen Oxide (NOX) emissions. Some of the kits used a vapor recovery system, an ignition timing reduction and maybe even a reduced jet size for the carburetor. My 69 Dart (First car) had this CAR KITT style sickers underhood and on the inside of the windshield. My 70 Charger had one under the hood. I now wish that I had taken pictures. It is strange how the insignificant things become important later, like the parts we gave away or threw out that people really want now!

Sweet, Kern Dog, your the first guy who ever knew what I was talking about.
The sticker looks exactly  like  you said, only my dashed lines are red(or faded orange).
I took a few photos of it, but they came out fuzzy, I will have to use my wife's camera with more MP and get a good shot of it.
The car has the stock 383 Holley carb (list 4440) but jets could have been changed.
It also had headers on it vs the factory exhaust manifolds.

So is this something California supplied to people with older cars to install, or something California MADE you buy and install?
That's sort of messed up to mandate a change on older cars at expense of car owner.
Like making someone install air bags on car made before they were standard equipment.

I know exactly what you are talking about with tossing out parts no one wanted and could not be given away and now, wish I held on to!!!
I wish I had saved at least 4 steel 15inch Mopar steel rims, for myself, ualong with a bunch of other parts! (front B-body seats for one)

[Kern Dog]

I started driving in November 82. The retrofit emission kits were on cars before that. I don't know if they were owner or dealer installed but I'd be interested in knowing as well. A California mechanic from the late 70s should know....Anyone like that around here??

[tcs69rt]

You guys are lucky. There was a similar post on this a few years ago that I replied to. I bought my 69 RT in 1999, while stationed in Vegas from the second owner that bought it from his Uncle. I stored it for 5 years while I was overseas. I was reassigned to North Dakota and contacted the dude stating that it was getting a feature in Mopar Collectors Guide. The guy tells me that his Attorney will be calling stating that since the value of the car has increased, I now owe him an additional 25 grand or to return the Charger to him! This was in 2006. I told him "Good Luck" getting thru the front gate of the base attempting to take the Charger away from me. It was not the response I expected. Never did get that phone call. 

[Bad B-rad]

WOW WTF!!!!!!!


What planet can you get paid retroactively from a completed sale once the item goes up in value, years later???

I think the legal term for that rule comes from the ancient Latin " Finders, keepers, losers, weepers!"   

If that be the case a lot of former Hemi owners are gonna be happy.
I also think my dad had sold like ten 1952 toppes Mickey Mantle rookie cards in 1954 for 5cents, I wouldnt hold my breath to get that cash!!
I think we also may have to cut a check to the Native Americans for Manhatten!!!!!



Was that dude always a tool bag?
Or just when he figured oh the car is gonna be in a mag, must be worth 1.5 million?

That sucks,
Sounds like you handled it like a pro!!!!
Nice!

[AKcharger]

Well that also shows that finding previous owners carries risk.

I would not be at all surprised to call a long lost previous owner, explain you have the car it's beautifully restored then learn it was stolen in 1983 and he is still the legal owner...you just lost you car. I recall a story like this for a 68 camero but cops flagged it when a guy went to register it in 2012 or something. Yup, it was all restored, yes previous owner got it and was thrilled...wait, here it is!

http://fox8.com/2015/10/21/man-gets-car-back-34-years-after-its-stolen-its-absolutely-beautiful/

[Bad B-rad]

WHAT A bad break!!!!...............or a good break depending on what side your on!!

THAT SUCKS!!!
But is also why I got a title in my name first thing!!!!!


I worked for a guy who bought and restored a 65 Mustang. Drove it for years then sold it.
He got a call from a New York State DMV investigator, almost a year after the sale, the guy who bought it, was just doing some homework, and the title he was given(here in NY its a registration untill1972)by my employer DID NOT MATCH the vin number on the door.
And the vin on the door came back as a stolen car!!!!!!
I asked him how the F do you own a car and drive it for years,AFTER restoring it and NEVER notice the vin on the title doesn't match the car you have!!!!
He said he just never looked.
So basically he, unknowingly took a title and registered and insured a car,(that may not even exist anymore) and put THOSE  plates and reg sticker on a completely different car and drove it around for years!!
Good thing he wasn't involved in a crash!!!!
He said because the vin was on the door frame he never even checked it vs the sticker on the window!!!!

I know he had to buy the car back from the guy he sold it to, AND the New York State troopers took the car!!!!!
He LOST over $12,500, but with help of his lawyer, and recipts he was able to get the rims he sold with the car, and the engine and trans were returned to him,but could not remove any parts off the car.

I THINK the guy who bought it from him, had pulled the engine and trans to install a bigger engine, so they were not in the car at the time the cops impounded everything.
(that and the recipts for the rebuild motor may be why he got those back, I also think the Mustang had no wheels on it when they flatbedded it and took the car)
I know he had to meet with the DMV investigator, the guy who bought the car from him, his lawyer, and the troopers were there, at the shop where the Mustang was being worked on, and they took it that day, like I said no wheels, just yanked it on a flatbed, he said, once the troopers verified the stolen vin on the car, no one could touch it!!!!!

Then him and his lawyer had to go after the guy HE bought it from, and he said that was a dead end because the car was a wreck when he bought it, and guy had no money.
This was in 2015, and I think he bought the car in 2011. The car was stolen in 1982, and the owner who reported it being stolen was no longer alive anymore, and last I heard his family was taking posestion of a mint red 65 Mustang body with Black inside.

My former employer said it sounded like the car was going to a younger (early 20's)man

I never understood why he would not have cracked into the vin to see what the Mustang was orignialy sold as?
I know I knew my Charger was a 4Bbl 383 way before I even paid for it.
Thats like the first thing us Mopar guys do, check to see if it was a Hemi car, or a 440, or 340, or what not.

SO that stuff does happen!!!



More recently the story I have been hearing a LOT OF.
Is the fully restored cars, are stolen, and driven right to a shipping container, and gone.
Shipped to a country never to be see, or recovered again.
Makes me think about getting "the Club", or the brake pedal lock.

Hell I had to "steal" my 66 Charger back from a fraudulent body guy, small section of wire, and a screw driver,LOL.

[Derwud]

The Previous owner of my car asked for some money for the car since it has gone up in value.. I told my Sister to kiss my ass, and then we laughed.. Car has been registered in my name since 1981...

[Old Moparz]

Personally I don't get or know what the fascination is with knowing a vehicle's history, or history of owners, contacting past owners can open up a can of worms, bring back bad memories of events they may have finally left in the past or perhaps still dwell on?, I've been in the same boat, past or original owners showing up at my door after tracking me/their old car down, to inquire if it''s for sale, or give me their "grief" that I altered the vehicle from it's original self, or looking for one last "joy ride"... last thing I want is to entertain them, or even be bothered period!

A few years ago I bumped into the original owner of my Challenger (friend of my step father) that I bought off him 40 years ago, after exchanging "pleasantries" he joking asked if I still had his old Challenger, I said "yes I do," (he would have cringed if he knew it was still in pristine condition) after that the first words out of his mouth were " That was my first new car, I bought it off the showroom floor, then a few short years later I sold it to you because of my fucking divorce, you knew that right!" the look on his face clearly opened an old wound...

Personally, the only history that matters to me about owning an "old car" is the history you make with it, if you let it go, it's gone, I wouldn't want to be contacted by the latest owner of any of my toys I had to sell....

I agree. 

As a firm believer of Murphy's Law, I'm willing to bet that if I ever got the bug to track down an original owner it will end badly. I'd probably end up in court having to defend myself because of some messy divorce in 1974 or some whiny son or daughter of the first owner that thinks it should be their car.   

The only way I'd be interested in talking to the first owner is if they happened to recognize the car & approached me about it. The chances of that happening is pretty slim since 4 of the 5 I have, have been modified & color changed.