Pitman arm and alingment questions

[green69rt]

I just had to look up "pedantic".  Another 3 syllable word that I can use with precision (but probably not.)   

[HPP]

There are alot of angles that cannot be measured with the plywood backyard setup. I would not reccomend that for a racecar as stated. Do you know how many adjustment points there are on the race cars? Its not just a simple camber eccentric and toe buckle...i would also not be taking my high end muscle car or race car to the local jiffylube for a chassis setup. I take pride in my work. If its not right, its not done.

Until this came up, I don't think anyone was referring to race cars, although it quickly degraded after that. The question was about a street car being used for cruising. No one was asking about  measuring the various angles associated with a front suspension. It was a simple request of  whats wrong, how do I fix it.

   As to pedantics on alignments- one could setup a b body mopar in about 15 minutes with a tape measure if you want to get technical. Push the front eccentrics max outward, measure rim lip to frame top and bottom, simple math for your camber angle using rear eccentric. No need to measure caster with stock or even offset bushings using this method. Then center the wheel and set toe with tape measure. Done. No plates or gauges needed and cost is only that of a 20' tape measure, and 2 wrenches.

Based on this then, the original premise that it can be easily done at home with some basic tools and research is validated by you. So then why the diversion into race cars, angles, etc?

Dude, you know a lot of stuff, and you share good info, but you don't always have to be so condescending to others to get it out there. Share the info, provide detail when asked. No need to jump on people for sharing  their opinions.

[c00nhunterjoe]

There are alot of angles that cannot be measured with the plywood backyard setup. I would not reccomend that for a racecar as stated. Do you know how many adjustment points there are on the race cars? Its not just a simple camber eccentric and toe buckle...i would also not be taking my high end muscle car or race car to the local jiffylube for a chassis setup. I take pride in my work. If its not right, its not done.

Until this came up, I don't think anyone was referring to race cars, although it quickly degraded after that. The question was about a street car being used for cruising. No one was asking about  measuring the various angles associated with a front suspension. It was a simple request of  whats wrong, how do I fix it.

   As to pedantics on alignments- one could setup a b body mopar in about 15 minutes with a tape measure if you want to get technical. Push the front eccentrics max outward, measure rim lip to frame top and bottom, simple math for your camber angle using rear eccentric. No need to measure caster with stock or even offset bushings using this method. Then center the wheel and set toe with tape measure. Done. No plates or gauges needed and cost is only that of a 20' tape measure, and 2 wrenches.

Based on this then, the original premise that it can be easily done at home with some basic tools and research is validated by you. So then why the diversion into race cars, angles, etc?

Dude, you know a lot of stuff, and you share good info, but you don't always have to be so condescending to others to get it out there. Share the info, provide detail when asked. No need to jump on people for sharing  their opinions.

Before you jump on my case and only quote me, race car alignments in driveways were brought up by jr, not me. And while yes, it is possible to do it with a tape measure ON ANY CAR, I clearly said i dont reccomend it. When you make the post that anyone can do their front end alignments in your driveway, im not going to sit back and be quiet. Thats how people screw up and get killed when things go wrong.

[JR]

I like the look of the Quick Trick alignment tools.   They are based right here in Alabama, my home state.  What are your thoughts?

https://www.quicktrickalignment.com/

I had never seen that system before, but I like it alot based on those videos and a look around the website. Those turnplates look like quality pieces, and it would save a good amount of time having the measuring tapes attach to the camber gauge instead of having two separate tools like I have. That's a really nice kit. I will consider that kit in the future myself!



And Coonhunter, I'll try to get to as many of your points as I remember them.

Why did I blow hundreds of dollars on crap alignments in the past, and why should anyone invest in the tools and learn how to do it? Easy.

Replace worn out control arm bushings or tie rod ends? Now you need to spend another 100 bucks at a shop.

Buy a "new" used project car and find out its wearing tires? 100 bucks.

Want to raise/lower the front of your car via the torsion bars? Another 100 bucks.

Want to change alignment settings for street or autocross use? Another 100 bucks. (i do this frequently. For autocross, I add toe out and a bunch of negative camber, then convert back to normal street settings after the event. I change the setup for road course use on my other car depending on the track also. Saves 200 bucks per event.)

Changing from polyglass tires to radials? Those are different alignment settings, so another 100 bucks.

Just finish the restoration of your Charger and need to align it? Another hundred bucks.

Your wife hit a pothole in her car and bend a tie rod? Thats another hundred bucks.

I'm not blindly saying everyone with no mechanical aptitude should buy an alignment kit and go to town, but I am saying if you're comfortable turning wrenches, and otherwise do your own work to your cars, there's no reason why you cant learn alignments yourself. And most likely, the guys who aren't comfortable turning wrenches aren't considering buying the tools in the first place. Which is fine. Not everyone likes to wrench.

Of course safety is paramount above all else, but this site is full of guys who can remove old drum brakes and piece their own disc brake kits together, cut out rusty floor pans or bent frame rails and replace them, and reassemble a car from a stripped shell in their home garage. I dont think those same guys will get careless and sloppy at this part of the car if they are capable of all the others. Those are the guys I'm talking to. Not to mention, those jobs are just as important as this one.

I just wish someone had told me this earlier, which is why I shared that information. It would have saved me a LOT of headache and frustration over the years. Front end alignments aren't voo-doo, they are simple. Especially for anyone who's comfortable wrenching on their own car. Just avoiding crap quality alignments like in the original post of this thread alone makes it worth it.

[c00nhunterjoe]

While i said in your case it works out great for you, but as i was so blatently called out, we are not talking about autocross or race cars, this is just a street car. In the case of the topic poster, i dont think he is up for doing his own alignments. Not to talk down on him, but if you are not resealing your own power steering boxes and pumps, you probably shouldnt tackle alignments either. Which is why i suggested asking around and finding a reputable shop that will do it right the 1st time.
  And how often are you wearing out tierods and control arm bushings to justify your arguements of always having to get your cars realigned? How high and low are we cranking those torsion bars up and down?  STREET car remember. Oh, and if my wife plasters a pothole big enough the mangle the steering on my charger, then she probably blew a tire and cracked a wheel as well and will no longer be driving it....
   So, i guess in conclusion, if you are at the level of backyard mechanic that you are rebuilding your own transmissions and rears, etc. then sure, go ahead and dabble into alignments. No, its not rocket science. But you yourself said that alot of the "professionals" are morons- and i agree with that.

[JR]

I think that's as much as we're going to agree on, I'll leave it there.

It's unfortunate there are so many bad shops that can cause classic car ownership to be a hassle. The root of many persistent problems with many cars on this board is a shop that did poor work.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I think that's as much as we're going to agree on, I'll leave it there.

It's unfortunate there are so many bad shops that can cause classic car ownership to be a hassle. The root of many persistent problems with many cars on this board is a shop that did poor work.

Its not just classic cars. Its the entire market. I get butchered vehicles in at least once a week from another shop... its sad.

[Canadian1968]

So............... I got my steering box back again ! And installed it, again ! No more leaks !

Next is to look at the alignment . I have been doing a lot of reading and will see what I can figure out in my garage with some string and a camber gauge ! Will keep updated

[c00nhunterjoe]

  sorry for the banter back and forth on your topic.