engine problem

[Sendero]

I have a rebuilt 440 engine with maybe 300 miles on it. In the last 50 miles it appears to have developed a exhaust leak. But how I know this is a bigger issue. The side with the leak puts out white smoke for a few minutes on startup. The other exhaust side is clear.

The car is also running hotter then I would expect after a few hundred miles.

Do I have a head gasket leak?

[67_Dodge_Charger]

Sounds like a head gasket leak.  Pull your valve covers and check your head bolts, check the torque by order.  Look for a leak on the block.  Check your dipstick for water.  If you have to pull your heads look for damage on your valves.

How hot does the engine get?  Is the anitfreeze low?

good luck
-Robert

[dodge freak]

I have hear you can fill the rad all the way up and look for air bubbles, if you see them its a head gasket or a crack head. Has it over heated before, that can cause the head to crack.

[Sendero]

I dont think its a cracked head. It hasn't "overheated" ( pegging the gage amd blowing steam) but runs at the 230 mark. I'll pull the cover and look for torque specs and given Murphy's law I''ll probably be pulling the head

[myk]

Well, new or newly rebuilt engines are tighter in clearances and therefor they tend to run hotter, so maybe that's the heat issue.  How hot did it run before the rebuild?

[firefighter3931]

I have a rebuilt 440 engine with maybe 300 miles on it. In the last 50 miles it appears to have developed a exhaust leak. But how I know this is a bigger issue. The side with the leak puts out white smoke for a few minutes on startup. The other exhaust side is clear.

The car is also running hotter then I would expect after a few hundred miles.

Do I have a head gasket leak?

The white smoke could just be water vapour burning off. Because it only happens on cold startup, i'm inclined to believe that is what's happening. If you suspect a head gasket failure there's the compression and leakdown tests to verify what's happening. A cooling system pressure test might also be worth doing to see if the system is holding pressure.

As mentioned above a tight engine will generate more heat. At 300 miles on a fresh build, it's still pretty tight. The "if it were mine" answer is :

(1) retorque head bolts
(2) pressure test cooling system
(3) compression test
(4) Leakdown test

One other thing worth noting : If the engine is running lean, this will also cause overheating problems. Retarded timing will also cause the same issues. If the plugs are white/light grey then it's lean.

Ron

[dodge freak]

Yes I agree did not see the only 300 miles on a rebuilt motor. I doubt your head gasket went that soon, they make great gaskets  and the head should be fine. Only one side huh, do you have headers , did that side need some dents in the tubes to fit? Maybe its running hotter on that side. Same with factory manifolds, that side might get hotter.

[Sendero]

Well I pulled the cover and started draining the Anti-freeze to remove the exhaust manifold bolts. As it was draining,  I was under the car to remove the exhaust pipe from the exh. manifold, low and behold I could see antifreeze seeping out from under the head cyl 7. Is it perferrable to retorque at this point or pull he head?

[dodge freak]

Well I would pull the head, and have it check to make sure it is flat. Get a good gasket like fel-pro and use sealer on the bolt threads but not on the gasket unless it the steel type.

[firefighter3931]

Sendero, what type of headgasket did you use ....permatorque or steel shim ? If you used the steel shim did you copper coat them ?

Ron

[74340charger]

did you retourque the heads after 500 miles like you're supposed to?

[Sendero]

Felpro permatorque. Engine has about 300 miles (if that) and was professionally rebuilt block and heads. ( RPM builds for local dirt track guys and a Nascar class driver - his shop is well respected locally.)

Checked torque...all bolts checked at 70 ft/lbs with no "loose" bolts
Checked compression test...cyl #1 at 135....cyl 7 @ 110  but on another test crank it came up at 60.  icon_smile_dead:

I will be checking with another compression tester tool and then a Coolant Pressure test just to confirm my findings

The compression test with done with rockers removed. One other interesting note is that my flange gasket was shot when I removed the  head pipe form the exh. manifold. Some parts of it just had a mesh core left. Whats up with Gaskets ...GEEZ

[Blue Pentastar]

Could it be the antifreeze leaking from the exhaust manifold bolt, and then baking off causing the ehaust leak and the smoke as it bakes the antifreeze off. Just a thought.

Mike

[firefighter3931]

Dang, that stinks ! I supose the head needs to come off anyway for the new headgasket so maybe have it checked for warpage. Were the heads surfaced at all ? Was the block squared up during the rebuild ? Hopefully it's just a bum gasket ! Keep us posted Sendero

Ron

[Sendero]

Folks, the saga continues. I pulled the head....I think the shop put in the wrong head gasket!

I will put up pics tonight and you guys can tell me if I should make a trip to the engine shop for a one way conversation. I will save my anger until you guys weigh in.

[Sendero]

IS this the right head gasket....to me it is not. Notice how the gasket  has horizontal slots rather then holes matching the coolant passages between cyls. Also notice that the horizontal slots extend only a small amount into the coolant passage and  far beyond the coolant passage. To me this allowed alot of coolant pressure to build up and force coolant between head and gasket. While I did place the gasket wrong for this pic...you can see the coolant hole impression at the 7pm position on the cyl on the far right. I assume this why I was running very hot ( not boiling) and the seeping of coolant into the cylinders ( white smoke) and finally working its way out the bottom of the head as a weeping.

Well...wrong head gasket or not.

[firefighter3931]

Well...wrong head gasket or not.

The gaskets are supposed to have those "slits" over the cooling passages. They are designed to restrict flow and optimize circulation....without them, coollant wouldn't reach the back of the block.

Ron

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

[Sendero]

Great. Now I have a head gasket problem with no known cause.
At least I don't have to pull the other head.

[firefighter3931]

Sendero, were the heads or block checked for warpage ? Lay a sraitedge across the head and see if it's warped. Do the same thing for the deck surface. A feeler guage can be used to measure any gaps.

Ron

[Johnnys440Charger]

Does the exhaust smoke like this?

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/charger/3/DE55B303-87FF-4E08-BA93-4E4F7D9FD4BB.htm

[mopar0166]

Had the same issue this weekend, kinda came and went though but I think ill be checking everything mentioned here