Questions on Suspension Rebuild

[High School 69 Charger]

Updated:  Renamed Subject as I have been asking questions about my whole suspension rebuild.

After reviewing all the advice in the forums on a suspension rebuild I finally took the plunge and started a full suspension rebuild on my 69 Charger.  Looking to do everything fairly stock and am using Moog Parts.  
Day 1: making progress but first sticking point is the cam bolt on the Upper control arm.  1 bolt is completely lose and out but the second I have the nut off and I can spin the cam end but.... it is frozen to the bushing sleeve.  So it just spins and won't push through.  After looking at it, unless it pops free after a little more PB Blaster then I am up to cutting it out???   It appears I would have to cut off the shaft at both ends of the bushing.  A tight and careful cut but really don't see any other options.

So anyone have any other ideas.

After the cam bolt, I still have the Upper Ball joint (I was able to break free from Knuckle but not the upper control arm).  And lastly, popping out the torsion bar.

And then its off to the drivers side.

[Dino]

Give it a few whacks first, you may not need to go nuts with the cutting. Cut one end of the cam bolt off and put a punch and a big hammer against it. More time for PB Blaster to do its magic is usually a good idea as well.

I'm just about to order some steering and suspension parts and I'll be using the Moog upper control arm offset bushings, but everything else will be Proforged. Moog is not what it used to be unfortunately and Proforged is getting very nice reviews. Good prices too! Turns out that the beefier C body tie rod ends are cheaper than the stock size for our cars, and they have the solid tie rod sleeves as well. Bonus!

[hemi71x]

Flame wrench.   

[High School 69 Charger]

@Dino:  Bummer on the Moog parts as I have a very large box of Moog from Summit Racing.   Hopefully, it hasn't fallen too far off the mark as I am already vested.  On the Cam bolt, have the nut off and have it spinning so will give the Blaster more time to work and keep on hammering.  And then just give up and start cutting.
@hemi71x:  No Flame wrench in my garage so old fashioned cuttoff wheel or sawzall.....

[Dino]

They still seem to last several thousand miles, just not as much as they used to. So if you have a seasonal cruiser then the parts may last a good long time.

[hemi71x]

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/upper-control-arm-adjuster-mounting-bolts-washers.378614/

I don't know what state your from, your profile doesn't say, but i don't know how some of you guys ever try and take things off 40+ year old cars, without the help of a torch.
Beg, borrow, rent one, from somebody, when a problem child removal rears it's ugly head, upon dis-assembly.
Lucky me, i live out west and am spoiled with California, Nevada, Arizona cars.

Sounds like your gonna be needing some UCA bolts.

[70 sublime]

You should try to get the upper ball joint out of the upper control arm while it is still bolted to the car to have something to pry against
They need a special big socket and they just twist out

[John_Kunkel]

Air hammer with an angled flush set.

[High School 69 Charger]

@Dino:  That makes me feel better.   Just a for fun cruiser so not very many miles.  I would really expect it Not to wear out in my time with it.  Now my kids want to inherit it but that will be their problem.
@hemi71x:   Believe it or not I lived in Minnesota before but then again the car was always garaged and never out in the salt.   So this is pure age and problems from it's first 15-20yrs of life (Nebraska and outside).   I will still have to consider the investment.  BTW, I am in Kansas City now and member of HPAC (High Performance Auto Club).  Also, I've got the new Cam Bolts and bushings in hand so ready for that.  Although might order up the offset bushings Dino mentioned as I seem them called out in many of the "alignment" posts to maximize Caster and keep the Camber negative (instead of positive for Bias Ply tires).
@70sublime:  I have the socket, a breaker bar, and a 3 foot cheater pipe.   No luck so far.   More PB blaster, maybe longer cheater?, and Heat???
@John Kunkel:  Funny, I was thinking of my air hammer and needing just a hammer head attachment instead of the standard chisel attachments.   Time to head to Menards.

[High School 69 Charger]

While I still face the cam bolt the great news is the 6 ft fence post pipe my neighbor loaned me became the magic ticket for the ball joint. He stopped by and said he has used it on his suspension work so I thought I would give it a try.  5min later the ball joint was off the car.   
PROGRESS.  Now on to the cam bolt in the Upper Control Arm but once again my day job gets in the way and I have to head out of town.  Back to the Charger later in the week.

[High School 69 Charger]

New point bit on the air hammer worked great to push out the cam bolt.   No cutting needed!!
Made Torsion bar removal tool with U bolts and Metal L channel.   Success on that removal.
Finished last parts on first side on and moved on to second side.  Everything came out.   Much faster with experience from the first side.

Question 1:  I did not pull the center steering link yet.  I have a replacement idler but not a replacement Pittman arm.   So I want to make sure I don't damage the pittman arm.   Instead of the fork should I use an actual remover tool (like a pulley puller).   Local auto store has one for free rental so was thinking this would be the best way.  Just confirming as I don't want to damage the steering arm.

Question 2: (mostly @dino) Should I get the offset bushings for the Upper control arm.   I have read through the postings on alignment.  It looks like without it you are just maxing the Castor and then adjusting Camber to negative .5 to 1 (depending on thread you read).  Does adding the offset bushings give you more control so they are not maxed.  Any downside to using the offsets.

Thanks to all for the continued advice.

[bakerhillpins]

The UCA bolts have a lock washer on them too so that might be making it a bit harder.  Can you get a breaker bar or big impact on the bolt? You should also note the orientation on the nuts if you plan to attempt to run it again without going through a full alignment.

FWIW I just finished rebuilding my front suspension on my 69 last weekend.    

NOTE: If you don't have the Mopar specific upper ball joint socket you should get it because getting the old out and new in (requires 125 ft-lb torque) comes with a lot less swearing. For a variety of reasons I ended buying a replacement set of UCAs from Pirate Jack. The crappy Chinese ball joints that came on it can't be replaced with the Moog parts. The Moogs have a .010 bigger diameter.  I've kept my old ones and plan to rebuild them with the Moog parts (assuming they can support the required ball joint torque).

[bakerhillpins]

Give it a few whacks first, you may not need to go nuts with the cutting. Cut one end of the cam bolt off and put a punch and a big hammer against it. More time for PB Blaster to do its magic is usually a good idea as well.

I'm just about to order some steering and suspension parts and I'll be using the Moog upper control arm offset bushings, but everything else will be Proforged. Moog is not what it used to be unfortunately and Proforged is getting very nice reviews. Good prices too! Turns out that the beefier C body tie rod ends are cheaper than the stock size for our cars, and they have the solid tie rod sleeves as well. Bonus!

I just put an entire box of Moog parts (still say made in USA on box) on my car. Seemed like good quality to me. Guess I'll find out.

[Dino]

Give it a few whacks first, you may not need to go nuts with the cutting. Cut one end of the cam bolt off and put a punch and a big hammer against it. More time for PB Blaster to do its magic is usually a good idea as well.

I'm just about to order some steering and suspension parts and I'll be using the Moog upper control arm offset bushings, but everything else will be Proforged. Moog is not what it used to be unfortunately and Proforged is getting very nice reviews. Good prices too! Turns out that the beefier C body tie rod ends are cheaper than the stock size for our cars, and they have the solid tie rod sleeves as well. Bonus!

I just put an entire box of Moog parts (still say made in USA on box) on my car. Seemed like good quality to me. Guess I'll find out.

I wonder if you got old stock? Aka the good stuff! I have a few Moog parts on mine but after hearing about how quality has been slipping I figured I might as well try out another brand. The beefy Moog sway bar links are real nice though! I love that they have a long bolt that goes in from the bottom and a long nut on top. It makes install a breeze.

[bakerhillpins]

I wonder if you got old stock? Aka the good stuff! I have a few Moog parts on mine but after hearing about how quality has been slipping I figured I might as well try out another brand. The beefy Moog sway bar links are real nice though! I love that they have a long bolt that goes in from the bottom and a long nut on top. It makes install a breeze.

Not sure how... all ordered from Rockauto over the past month and a half.  Would have thought they have stuff that's falling fresh out of the factory, where ever it is. 

Yours looks a lot more pretty than mine... but I stuck with stock.

[High School 69 Charger]

Good news!  Everything's off the car.  As mentioned earlier I did get the nuts and washers off the cam bolts but the bolts were stuck in the bushing sleeves.  But after a few days of a PB Blaster and my air hammer I got it out. 
O Reilly has a Ball Joint press tool that actually worked great on removing the UCA bushings.
Yes I did buy the ball joint tool and it took a lot more force than 125lbs to get them off.  But they are both off thanks to a very larger breaker bar.
I did end up pulling the center link, idler arm, and pitman arm.  All came off fine.
Now cleaning up all the parts, to be ready for a clean install.  Got the Harbor Freight Parts washer and Sand Blast cabinet so things are really shaping up
Am planning to use the offset bushings for more adjustment for future alignment.
Am taking the LCA to a local shop to change out the bushings.  I don't have a press to even attempt it.
So back to cleaning parts.
Drop a note with any assembly advice.

[Lennard]

I would add the l.c.a. braces.

[High School 69 Charger]

Not sure what you are advising.  If you mean did I remove the Lower Control Arms the answer is yes.  I already have them off and am going to drop them off at my local shop to change out the bushings.   
If there is more "braces" please explain.  I've tried to do my research but may be missing something. Sure do appreciate any help.
here are a couple pics of my progress.  The greasy muddy ones and some freshly cleaned.

[Lennard]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwes-SP8u4w

[bakerhillpins]

Yes I did buy the ball joint tool and it took a lot more force than 125lbs to get them off.  But they are both off thanks to a very larger breaker bar.

Note, per FSM - If you can't seat the new upper ball joint at 125ft lbs then the UCA is junk and will need to be replaced.

WARNING - if you order a pre-populated UCA from, lets sayyyy, Pirate Jack. The UCA comes with a sh*t (IMHO) upper ball joint. But you can't replace it with your Moog one because it's .010 smaller than the Moog OEM fitment part.    I found this out with not enough time left to deal with the problem and just put the UCAs on. I'll attempt to rebuild my old UCAs later.  

Am taking the LCA to a local shop to change out the bushings.  I don't have a press to even attempt it.

You can use the same press to start to remove the LCA bushings. It's a 3 step process.

• You press out the shaft and the center bushing. Typically the center bushing sticks to the shaft and you have to cut it off very carefully with a cutoff wheel. I had one shaft basically fall out.
• Remove the center rubber. DON'T combine this with the next step!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remove the rubber first.
• Using an air chisel and a cutting bit carefully cut out the outer bushing (it can't be pressed out). The outer bushing is made of a softer material. You need to use a normal chisel to cut the outer lip off first. Then carefully use the cutting bit to cut down the side of the outer bushing and peel it out. It takes a bit of time for the first one but the 2nd goes much smoother/faster.

I honed out the hole to remove any scratches/oh-shits I made and smoothed out the face too. This allowed the bushing to be smoothly pushed back in.

[High School 69 Charger]

@leonard:  Thanks for video link.  Saw the extra bracing on the bottom you are referring to.  Also saw the inspection of the "slop" at the end.  Fortunately mine is fairly snug.  No real slop.

[Lennard]

@leonard:  Thanks for video link.  Saw the extra bracing on the bottom you are referring to.  Also saw the inspection of the "slop" at the end.  Fortunately mine is fairly snug.  No real slop.

If you want to buy the braces, forum member Chris (cbrestorations) has them for sale.

[High School 69 Charger]

Progress Report:  Hard to know just how much cleaning to do in a restoration.  I certainly wanted to capitalize on the great access to the wheel well and K member so I gave myself one weekend.   Here are the pics on what I accomplished before continuing with the suspension rebuild.  So here was my process:
Degreaser and lots of elbow grease and a brush.  Actually found body color under all that dirt.  Also some interesting views into the undercoating overlay (and some previous front end repairs).
Then prep with a water wash followed by a solvent wipe to prep for painting.  And of course some masking paper and tape.
Rustoleum self etching primer for the K member that was cleaned down to bare metal
Rustoleum rust reformer primer for the wheel well.  There was rust around the Upper Control Arm bracket.
Rustoleum Engine Semi Gloss Black on the K member and Body Color on the wheel well.  Note I only painted the area primarily inside the undercoating (and down to the frame rail (kind of a bell shape). 

[High School 69 Charger]

Took advice from Bakerhillpins and gave the LCA bushings a try.  They are successfully removed and have one pressed in already.  I used the O Reilly's Ball Joint Press which is a giant C with adapters and large screw shaft.   I had called my local shop and realized they were just going to beat out the bushing and probably be in a hurry.  Figured I could take my time and be do as good of job.   Definitely took some sweat equity but I got them out.  As suggested I cleaned off the burs and then pressed in a new one.  Since everyone says you need a very big press I was surprised I could just push it in with the same tool.  I'm sure I could have saved some effort using my air gun but I felt more comfortable using a breaker bar and socket.  I felt I could go slow and make sure it was going in smoothly with it getting more pressure as I put it in.  1st one went just as expected.  About the point I hit bottom (lip seated) was about the point I was putting a fair torque on the breaker bar.   Thanks to the advice and encouragement I gave it a shot and saved a bit of money.  Getting closer to assembly time.

[Dino]

You're making good progress there. 

I'll get cracking on mine this Saturday.