4 Door Barracuda - Complete

[DAY CLONA]

Dave, that explanation/tutorial was just too far advanced for some of the 4dr challenged members here      maybe this pic helps them seeing it's the platform you used

Mike

I'll assume you're directing you comment to me regarding "4dr challenged member" so I'll address this question to you.  The "advanced" depiction refers to a "passenger window lowered into altered frame opening" and the fact that it "does not fit" when altered, which is fairly obvious.  Had this been an actual factory exercise, wouldn't they simply make a new window to what ever size they need (fitting the ideal opening) rather than try to make an existing glass or frame fit?  Certainly if you're limited to using existing glass from another car you would have to compromise the design in some areas, which was the point of my question.  

Nope wasn't "directed" towards you, if it was I would have made it "addressed/quoted" to your post....carry on

[DAY CLONA]

I've been trying to objectively identify what makes it look a little "off" here. Now I'm not trying to criticize the work done, because honestly, I think the feat Dave & guys pulled off is amazing.  Some of the previous comments saying it looks like a fish bowl got me thinking, and I think I figured it out...two areas.
1) Since the E-body windshield was used, the top of the windshield is significantly shorter than the top of the door glass.

Sometimes vehicles photographed at different angles affect a viewer's perception, sometimes the vehicle's "lines" or surrounding lines/objects can cause a different perception to different viewers

here's a line drawn from the top of the side glass to the front windshield (pic below)...a different perception perceived perhaps?

regardless of the individual perceptions presented/debated, I actually like the vehicle side C pillar profile, the roof line captures the Cuda's essences in that regard, had Dave and crew used the B body rear C pillar and rear glass, the Cuda would have lost some of it's signature styling cues...

On a humorous note, I think Dave should have opted for the true Mopar geezer 4 dr look, F8 green inside and out, slant 6 under the hood, dog dish hupcaps, that way he could endure the endless stories from observers about how their Granny, Mom, Dad or Uncle "had one just like it, back in the day", along with "the same color too!"  

Again great job! by Dave, Steve, and crew  ...seriously!

Mike

[ECS]

Certainly if you're limited to using existing glass from another car you would have to compromise the design in some areas, which was the point of my question. 

You have to remember that the new E Body was already on shaky ground when it was first released.  Chrysler took all kinds of criticism for building a style of vehicle that was already on the way out with their Competition.  It's very doubtful that they would have built a completely different Platform for a 4 Door version of their already existing Barracuda.  When the Chrysler Execs looked at our Car and we told them what we had to do to make everything work, they said we may have uncovered the reason that they never moved forward with such a design.  They weren't willing to come out with a totally new platform so they halted any ideas of manufacturing a 4 Door E Body for the Masses. 

If we would have lowered the side profile of the Glass or Roofline, there would be criticism that the Car looked too long.  We didn't have another Chrysler option to use, so we incorporated the type of design that they actually manufactured.  Even using the same type of design required a substantial amount of custom modification to make everything work.

[Kern Dog]

Hey Dave, What was the actual car that the door jambs and pillars came from? I thought I remember that it was a 71-74 Satellite?

[ECS]

Hey Dave, What was the actual car that the door jambs and pillars came from? I thought I remember that it was a 71-74 Satellite?

It was a 1972 (or 1973) Coronet.  We never had a Car.  It was basically this setup shown below but had the B Body "C" Pillars still attached when we got it.  Someone had used the "Car" for donor Body Parts and left only a partial Hull.

[CRW-FK5]

Certainly if you're limited to using existing glass from another car you would have to compromise the design in some areas, which was the point of my question.  

You have to remember that the new E Body was already on shaky ground when it was first released.  Chrysler took all kinds of criticism for building a style of vehicle that was already on the way out with their Competition.  It's very doubtful that they would have built a completely different Platform for a 4 Door version of their already existing Barracuda.  When the Chrysler Execs looked at our Car and we told them what we had to do to make everything work, they said we may have uncovered the reason that they never moved forward with such a design.  They weren't willing to come out with a totally new platform so they halted any ideas of manufacturing a 4 Door E Body for the Masses.  

If we would have lowered the side profile of the Glass or Roofline, there would be criticism that the Car looked too long.  We didn't have another Chrysler option to use, so we incorporated the type of design that they actually manufactured.  Even using the same type of design required a substantial amount of custom modification to make everything work.

Thanks for the deeper explanation.  Certainly a great deal of thought and detail went into the project.  Hope to see it myself one day.

[Bronzedodge]

Wow!  You started with that?!!  Did you have the rear doors?   Is it coming to Carlisle?

[ECS]

Wow!  You started with that?!!  Did you have the rear doors?   Is it coming to Carlisle?

Yes, that's what we started with but even "that" was altered to make things work in the design.  (See link below). The B Pillars had to be cut apart and restructured to fit the custom Door configurations.  The Roof had to be cut apart and resection together.  The A Pillars were cut apart and modified to fit the E Body Windshield shape.  Regarding the Rear Doors, we did not have those and basically built them from scratch.  We were able to use the a B Body inner Door structure to start with, cut it apart, reshape it and weld it back together so it would fit the custom fabricated rear Door Skins.  Below is a link showing some of the work that had to be done to make the rear Doors.  You can also see how the B Pillars were cut apart and the extensive reshaping that had to be done for everything to work properly.  Steve Been was a Master Craftsman when it came to the metal design and fabrication.  

It will be on displayed on a Lift, in the "T" Building at Carlisle this Summer.   Thanks!

http://4doorcuda.com/blog/?m=201403

[Charger_Fan]

Now looking at the upper edge of the rear doors, that area cuts into the roof line even more aggressively, due to the rear slope of the roof.

You do realize that you're critiquing the actual Door Frame design that Chrysler actually used?  We did not change ANYTHING in the design of the Window openings.  We also didn't change ANYTHING in the configuration where the Door Frames mate with the top section of the roof.

Yes, I do realize that. It's the portion of the roof behind the rear doors that deviated from the roof that was initially designed for the doors. But I understand the reasoning for doing that, it was to try & keep the Barracuda back window looking like a Barracuda.

here's a line drawn from the top of the side glass to the front windshield (pic below)...a different perception perceived perhaps?

Yes, that's pretty much what I'm thinking...if the tops of the doors were lowered below the red line & the chrome trim lowered to just above the red line, then to me at least, it seems that would work a little better.
BUT, like I said previously, to do that would be a huge PITA, and I don't blame them for leaving the tops of the doors as they are. And you may be right, in that I may be perceiving the look differently than others.

Hey Dave, What was the actual car that the door jambs and pillars came from? I thought I remember that it was a 71-74 Satellite?

It was a 1972 (or 1973) Coronet.  

That helps. Here's a '72 Coronet sedan...



So as Dayclona said (and I agree)...

regardless of the individual perceptions presented/debated, I actually like the vehicle side C pillar profile, the roof line captures the Cuda's essences in that regard, had Dave and crew used the B body rear C pillar and rear glass, the Cuda would have lost some of it's signature styling cues...

If the rear roof line of the Coronet was used on the Barracuda, it would have lost a lot of what makes the Cuda look like a Cuda. So I agree that it was best to not to try to make the rear portion of the Coronet roof fit the Cuda, it would probably look really odd.

Anyway, all that aside, I still say that making this 4-door Barracuda look as great as it does, is quite an amazing feat! Make sure to show off your Carlisle pics when you get there.

[odcics2]

I've been trying to objectively identify what makes it look a little "off" here. Now I'm not trying to criticize the work done, because honestly, I think the feat Dave & guys pulled off is amazing.  Some of the previous comments saying it looks like a fish bowl got me thinking, and I think I figured it out...two areas.
1) Since the E-body windshield was used, the top of the windshield is significantly shorter than the top of the door glass.
2) The upper edge of the rear doors cuts very high into the roof line.



The height of the original door glass matches the windshield...



I understand that the 4-door doors have a frame all the way around the windows, whereas the original one does not, so adding the frame to the doors would automatically add some height. However on the 4-door Barracuda, the glass AND the door frames have compounded the vertical area, which cuts higher into the roof line.
To fix that, the tops of the doors would need to be cut down a little...however that would be a huge PITA in itself, so I don't blame Dave & company in the slightest for leaving them alone.

Now looking at the upper edge of the rear doors, that area cuts into the roof line even more aggressively, due to the rear slope of the roof. To fix the look of that area, the upper rear edge of the rear door window & frame could be canted forward a little, to more closely match the angle of the back glass, OR the back glass (and sheet metal) could be stood up a little more...losing some of the fastback angle. But then it starts looking like less of a Barracuda, so that's a tough one.

Anyway, just my rambling thoughts on the subject. Carry on. 

Eyes are drawn to the shiny trim, not the upper edge of the side glass.
Therefore, the windshield appears way lower than the side glass. 

[A12 Superbee]

Yeah, that last pic seals it, the rear side glass is way too tall, looks odd and detracts from the overall car.

Still an amazing feat of engineering though.

[303 Mopar]

I applaud the engineering and craftsmanship, but hate the car as it is a joke.

[alfaitalia]

....bit harsh but I here ya. Apart from the very wrong mismatch of glass heights the part I could not live with is the A pillar...or more specifically the chrome trim on the A pillar....makes the pillar looks twisted...unlike in the two door version with the parallel strips. Superb engineering as already said.....but could have been "prettier".

[Charger-Bodie]

I applaud the engineering and craftsmanship, but hate the car as it is a joke.

Tact is an amazing thing to have. It appears that you may be lacking.

[moparnation74]

The owner has been professional/respectful here in despite of a few nasty comments!

Could we all try to do the same....the drama is the past and the car has come to fruition.  Like it or love it but either way it is an amazing build overall.....

There are many and I mean many concept cars that can be picked apart in great detail.  Concepts typically are not appealing......So when one goes to a large event where one of these past concepts come forward.  Do you rip that car apart in front of that owners face?

[303 Mopar]

The owner has been professional/respectful here in despite of a few nasty comments!

Could we all try to do the same....the drama is the past and the car has come to fruition.  Like it or love it but either way it is an amazing build overall.....

There are many and I mean many concept cars that can be picked apart in great detail.  Concepts typically are not appealing......So when one goes to a large event where one of these past concepts come forward.  Do you rip that car apart in front of that owners face?

Maybe "joke" was a bit harsh, so I apologize for that comment.  Again, I think the engineering and skill level to build a car like this is amazing.  I just do not like the car at all, just my opinion.

There are plenty of people at shows/events that pick my cars apart and others that are above and beyond the quality of my cars. I could show them even more things that are not 100% right than what they have found or think they know.  I drive my cars and build them for the street to have fun, not to trailer around so none of them are perfect.  It is hard and almost impossible to build a concept car that appeals to all.  Even the new Demon gets bashed by some people.

[ECS]

......So when one goes to a large event where one of these past concepts come forward.  Do you rip that car apart in front of that owners face?

Those who critique the Windows & Roof are not used to seeing a 4 Door example of the Barracuda.  They're accustom to seeing the 2 Door versions and have nothing else to base their opinion on.  When you look at the other 4 Door cars that have a 2 Door counterparts, they all exhibit the same type of characteristics that our 4 Door has.  Since people are conditioned and accepting of cars were actually built, the differences hardly register.  The appearance is either liked or it's not.

Speaking of a "large event", I found this scenario to be hilarious.  When we unveiled the Car in Vegas, not ONE person came up to me and criticized the vehicle.  I had a few people ask "why" but they did so in a respectful, non-condocending manner.  Anyway, we unveiled the Car on Friday night.  The next day, someone forwarded me a link to a Forum, where people were already ridiculing the Car.  The funny part about it was that the pictures posted on the Forum, were taken at the event by the OP.  They were there in person and standing within a few feet of me!  Think about that!  They probably had approached me, complimented the car in person, only to go back to their Hotel and start posting their insults.  I cannot even imagine the gutless demeanor it takes to be that way.  You gotta love the internet.  It's the place where the small can act Large and cowards transformed into Warriors.

[alfaitalia]

Well put....I do usually try and think "would I say this to his face" before I drop a post. Most of the time I would or edit the post accordingly. Some folks however, who are clearly just plain stupid, ignorant or both....unfortunately pass through that particular filter....and I cant stop myself....and I hit "POST".

Just like to stress that the above comment relates in no way to the builder in this thread!!!

[moparnation74]

......So when one goes to a large event where one of these past concepts come forward.  Do you rip that car apart in front of that owners face?

Those who critique the Windows & Roof are not used to seeing a 4 Door example of the Barracuda.  They're accustom to seeing the 2 Door versions and have nothing else to base their opinion on.  When you look at the other 4 Door cars that have a 2 Door counterparts, they all exhibit the same type of characteristics that our 4 Door has.  Since people are conditioned and accepting of cars were actually built, the differences hardly register.  The appearance is either liked or it's not.

Speaking of a "large event", I found this scenario to be hilarious.  When we unveiled the Car in Vegas, not ONE person came up to me and criticized the vehicle.  I had a few people ask "why" but they did so in a respectful, non-condocending manner.  Anyway, we unveiled the Car on Friday night.  The next day, someone forwarded me a link to a Forum, where people were already ridiculing the Car.  The funny part about it was that the pictures posted on the Forum, were taken at the event by the OP.  They were there in person and standing within a few feet of me!  Think about that!  They probably had approached me, complimented the car in person, only to go back to their Hotel and start posting their insults.  I cannot even imagine the gutless demeanor it takes to be that way.  You gotta love the internet.  It's the place where the small can act Large and cowards transformed into Warriors.

Well stated and my point exactly...Speaking of face to face when will you be in Dallas so I can get you the first drink!

[Charger_Fan]

That's really lame that someone spoke to you in person, then went all "keyboard commando" afterward. Some people just suck that way, I guess.

[ECS]

That's really lame that someone spoke to you in person, then went all "keyboard commando" afterward. Some people just suck that way, I guess.

I'm not sure if they actually spoke to me or not.  The point is that I was standing right there, they had to know it was me and they didn't have the guts to say it to my face.  I'm given all kinds of grief on the internet in the way I talk and when some of these people have the chance to approach me in person, they decide not to.  Anyone who knows me is aware that I am the exact same on the phone, on the internet or in person.  I'm probably "worse" in person because I can react much faster than I can type.

[Old Moparz]

Any plans to make one of those 8 door, airport limo things from a Cuda?



Kidding.       Nice work, though, will it be at Carlisle?.

[ACUDANUT]

Any plans to make one of those 8 door, airport limo things from a Cuda?



Kidding.       Nice work, though, will it be at Carlisle?.

[ECS]

.......will it be at Carlisle?.

Yes.  Here is a link that lists all the events we will be attending with the car.

http://4doorcuda.com/

[gtx6970]

Although I can appreciate the effort to do it.  But sorry, not a fan .

From straight in from  the side its not to bad, but that 3/4 front view really shows the height differences between the side glass and windshield and the goofy C pillar shape. It makes it looks twisted and plain weird