IMO; Next evolutionary step in hot rods

[The Ghoul]

Let me start off by saying this is very long!
I did not intend this to turn into a turm paper (wich oddly enough it isnt).
I just kinda flet like explaining why I see the things the way I do. I think alot of friction that I run into here has got to do with the diffrences between the muscle car mind set and the modern hot-rod mind set (which I am self proclamed as).
I think alot of you would find this intresting, some might find it offencive, but its the way I feel about it.
Some of you school kids might just be able to use this as a term paper (spelling and grammer checked of corse) 

enjoy!

[The Ghoul]

Be warned you old codgers arnt going to like this so just read the next paragraph and stop if you are already battling high blood pressure.

Old school is the best and should never be challenged by any thing else.

Now for the rest of yall that are still reading here is how I see things.

Eventually there will be a point when pre 75 cars (excluding trucks in this essay) will be very hard to come buy and very expensive. The ones that will be on the market will either be fully restored rare cars, fully hot-rodded customer rigs, or partially modified cars that have fallen into disrepair.

Where does that leave the potential future hot-rodder?

Wate a tick, I'm getting ahead of my self.
Here is how I see hot-rodding, both how I define it and how I see the hobby.
The hotrodding movement has been around since the beginning. Trying to modify stock cars to give them a unique style and more power than there stock configuration. The hobby gained massive momentum just after World War 2. Soldiers were just getting back from a war and were highly trained in new fields. Also had a bit of extra money kicking around from monetary federal compensation for there time.
The young service people started to take standard trim cars, taking off fenders, trim, and other non-functional aesthetic components to lighten curb weight. The also started to fabricate performance components themselves and started to modify the cassis and suspension to give them aggressive better handling stances. Some went to the point of seeking out better engines and transmissions from junk yards for higher powered cars and slapping them in. Thus the rat-rod was born.
A classic example of the above stated paragraph (in my mind) has to be the 32 ford. The four cylinder coupes were plentiful and cheap. Many people removed the fenders to create the 'high boy'. With slight modification to the stock suspension they were able to lower the stance. Some sought out the ford flat-head to accommodate the extra power they lusted after. Most kept with the inline four and with hand made exhaust manifolds and intakes were able to put decent power through them. What impressed me most about pictures that I have seen of the old rat rods was the level of 'farm boy engineering'. Hub adapters were made out of the simplest of raw materials to 'double up' the rear tires (running four stock tires on the rear in a dulie set up) to get increased traction. Adaptation of newer disk brakes onto the chassis of a car that came standard with drums in the front. I know I'm getting a bit out of sequence here but the point is the level of aftermarket was not any where near what we see today.

With this heritage in mind take a look at all the different offshoots we see today in our hobbies.
-   We have the stock car (no association to racing) movement; comprised of purists wanting to keep the car the way it was out of the factory.
-   There is the low riders who focus mainly on style, flash and very lightly on performance
-   There are the rat rodders; using stock components to make custom hot rods they way there fathers or grand fathers did back in the beginning. Focusing mostly on performance with very little thought to the aesthetics or comfort of the car.
-   There are the hot rodders (for lack of a more suitable tag); who take classic cars and give them low mean stances, beef up the power trains but also focus on style, comfort and aesthetics
-   There are the muscle car people; Taking classic muscle cars from the late 50's to late 70's upgrading the cars while keeping a relatively stock appearance using either modern after market components or components used to modify cars in that time period. They also are known to use stock engine, transmission, braking, and interior components that were in some cases not even offered on that model car.
-   The racers; often sporting a bare interior, roll cages, aftermarket suspension, drive train components, ect.. to set there car up and often compete in different race events; road course, auto-x, rally-x, drift, drag ect.
-   The modern muscle; relatively sock appearance early 80's to current front engine rear wheel drive cars. Sporting aftermarket drive train, suspension, and little aesthetic modifications they focus on a comfortable, faster than stock car that can be driven daily.
-   There are the customizers that drastically alter the appearance, options and interior of the cars to create something that doesn't look stock but is exactly what they want it to be. Some times going so far as to make the car buy hand using a mix of stock and aftermarket parts from all sorts of manufacturers. They view the hobby as more of an art form than any thing else.  *favorite of mine being Big daddy Ed Roth*  
-   Often considered the lowest of the offshoots, the 'tuner' AKA the ricer. These are individuals that are taking modern (often base level) cars and using aftermarket components creating (often unsuccessfully) a car that has style, handling, comfort, and reliability.

[The Ghoul]

This last group is what I wish to consider.

With modern resources (internet, performance shops with dino's, aftermarket engine management systems, Lots of places that can tune said systems, and junkyards filled with cars of the same types and varieties) many of the 'tuners' are able to buy a base model car that is rather beat up and plane looking, swap in higher models engines, drive trains and braking systems, then combining them with after market parts can achieve great performance and style from there stock cars. They have in since created a highbred of almost all of the disciplines stated above, and in and of them self's have created offshoots.

There are many that belong to this group that lack the skill, experience and money to pull off a clean looking well performing car. These are often the people that are being introduced to the hobby for the first time. Sadly but very often this group is very immature and delight in driving like a maniac in populated areas with cars that are comprised of cheap components that were purchased off of e-bay because they were just that ... cheap, all because it looked good in a movie. There stereos are often loud and annoying, and it seems there whole car rattles when ever the bass hits.

There are plenty of responsible 'tuners' out there that take great pride in researching, installing and testing components that will suet there needs creating a great handling, good looking, car that is often driven daily and some times tracked in auto-x and rally-x events. This group tends to get the raw end of the deal, being lumped in with the above mentioned 'ricers' or inexperienced hobbyist. Sadly they are often intimated buy the thought of becoming a 'ricer' that they tend to not install components that they make them self's, or modify to fit there cars. They typically play it very safe, I have seen this many times on discussion forums, if some one suggests an idea they tend to wait to see the outcome of it before attempting it themselves. I am not bagging on this mindset, I often think it is wise to see some one else's results before attempting it your self, but I fear this has lead to a lack of creativity. Basically what I am saying is this group lacks the 'farm boy engineering' that made this hobby great in the early years.

Please not that in the entire process of explaining the above 3 paragraphs I never once mentioned the 'race' of the cars in question. Often when you think of tuners you are automatically locked into the import mindset. Even the term 'ricer' is derived from the slang term 'rice burner' (a common old term for describing imports). I want it stated clearly that the above 3 paragraphs hold true to domestic cars as well. The reason the tuner seen has majorialy populated with imports is because while Americans were concentrating on new-age muscle cars, other country's hobbyists were focusing on handling, reliability, and aesthetics as apposed to all out horse power. Thus when muscle cars started to become a bit of a 'rich mans sport' and the youth of America started looking to upgrading there 'dumb old civic' that there parents handed down to them they found far more aftermarket parts for that then domestic FWD cars.   

I feel the future of hot-rodding is in the hands of the grey area between these two sub-groups.

I cam to this conclusion in the process of researching and installing an upgraded brake system on my Subaru impreza 2.5rs.    I researched all the big name brand brake suppliers (brembo, willow wood ect..) and came to the realization that I did not need that much of an improvement for my car. I was merely after a better-than-stock brake system that could be daily driven but also have positive results when taking it to a road course, rally-x, or auto-x track in the future. After carefully reading up on the internet I cam to the conclusion (based on forum posts describing this set up) that it would be a better investment for me to find a set of stock wrx front brake caliper hangers, and rear legacy rear caliper hangers, aftermarket rotors (for the two models mentioned) aftermarket performance street brake pads, better brake fluid, and stainless steel lines (for a stiffer pettel).

The pictures below are of my stock RS brake caliper placement vs. the legacy in the rear, and wrx in the front caliper placement. *Please not in both before and after the rotors are the same, to notice the difference in placement take a look at the space between the rim and the caliper.*




The combination of this, the multiple engine swaps I have researched, and the turbo kit that I am piecing together from stock WRX components has made me realize this is where the hot rodding movement is going.

Ok stop laughing....

Seriously!!!

I mentioned above the projects I am currently working on, but what about the ones that I have installed and have been working fine for years now. Stock rear sway bar on my RS was 18mm the WRX got one that was 20mm and the wagons got a 22mm one, all these cars share the same rear sub frame. My car stock is very prone to under steer an aftermarket 20mm bar is $130 shipped. I bought a stock WRX bar for $75 shipped.
The ideal pipe dia for an exhaust system for my car is 2 1/ 4" the stock was 1 5/ 8" the WRX came with 2 1/ 4 and since they share the same rear sub frame, and very similar floor boards I was able to weld my exhaust flange to the front of the wrx exhaust and use that. Aftermarket exhaust for the RS usually runs $250 shipped I bought mine for $50.

I feel this is the closest thing we have in the modern day to the rat-rods of old. Base model cars, very plentiful, using stock components from other models and a little 'farm boy engineering' to create affordable little performance cars.
The only difference I see is that back then they created cars that focused mostly on speed, and they were typically fare weather cars. Now most parts are so well researched that you typically gain very little by making them your self, and with parts interchangeability driving stock price way down a lot of manufacturers are making components that are easily used to upgrade lesser models (EX. Break components, transmissions...ect).
We tend to focus heavier on aesthetics, drivability, and comfort more than rat-rodders.

I think in the future when the next batch of little gear heads reach the street you wont see many muscle cars (new and old), or classic hot rods being driven around by the pre 30's crowd. I think you will see more and more kids driving mid-90's/early 00 modified imports and domestic FWD cars. I just don't think the new-age muscle cars will have the aftermarket, or the parts interchangeability that will allow them to remain dominant over the test of time. Yes there is a big aftermarket for them now, but they are so well equipped from the factory the most you will be able to do using stock components is upgrade engine, trans, and interior options.
Again I am talking strictly cars, the off road/on road truck and jeep movement is still strong and I don't perceive that to change much.

[greenpigs]

I thought about doing a spell check on your posts but decided to just post a semi-wise ass remark.


Are the pictures of the rims an error? Or is one size a larger diameter because they look the same to me.

[The Ghoul]

I thought about doing a spell check on your posts but decided to just post a semi-wise ass remark.


Are the pictures of the rims an error? Or is one size a larger diameter because they look the same to me.

Just for you I wrote the whole thing in word, so spelling (for the most part) is fine.
you have to realize that the rotors in the pictures are the same (I havent gotten the new ones yet) so thats just a mock up of the new calaper placement with the old rotors. So to see the diffrence you have to take a look at the calaper in relation to the rim(it is still kinda hard to tell because you see alot of the inner rim in one of the pics and not the other). It will be way more apparent when its all set up with the new rotors. 

[dkn1997]

que?

[moparguy01]

cliff notes?

[dkn1997]

cliff notes?

it's either that or some acid to burn my retinas out.  after trying to read that, my eyes will never be good for anything ever again.

[Mefirst]

Well as your teacher will say -When using "Word Perfect" you can use the spell check within the program!!

Well enough of the sarcasm...

I did actually find your article interesting, makes me wish more young people would take the time to use the internet site www.google.com and do a search on automotive history.. I do think it is important that future generations continue with the car hobby... even if they will "hot rod" Honda's, Toyota's, Subaru's, etc..

[Mike DC]

I agree with that to some extent.

Musclecars are too hard for kids to build these days.  The recognized classic "A-list" bodystyles are getting too old & expensive.  You can't mess with them anymore without having either a hell of a lot of money or else a hell of a lot of tools & experience.  (And 16-24-year-olds rarely have much of either one.)

The B-list bodystyles & 4-doors from the musclecar era are still cheap.  But IMHO they never get enough respect/attention no matter how well they're built, and they often need almost as much work & updating to be daily-driveable as the A-list cars do.  These cars could/should be helping our hobby stay relevant but we need to show them some more props.

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Ricers?  
They're the future, plain and simple.  We can hate it all we want and it will go right on happening.

The future is not gonna be kids in modern Camaros (well, not as much as in previous times).  The concept/production Camaros & Challengers . . . it's gonna be 2020 before these cars are anywhere NEAR cheap enough to be the kind of hot-rod material we want them to be.  And even then, they're already built in "hot-rodded" form from the factory.  There's little/no CHEAP, EASY ways to improve them at all, whereas the FWD ricers have that in spades.

Many (most of?) these current kids aren't gonna go back to Detriot for their musclecars.  Detroit has lost the perception of "cool" to so much of the younger generations . . . I think if these kids ever do end up messing with big-displacement RWD cars, it will be when Toyota & Honda make RWD car platforms.

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And we're not helping the problem in a lot of cases.  You know what I've heard ricer-guys say lots of times?
 
"I actually kinda like the old musclecars themselves.  But I can't stand that holier-than-thou attitude I get from the musclecar GUYS as soon as they see my Civic."

 

[The Ghoul]

this pritty much covers the cliff notes.

I believe that hot rods started off as the rat rod movement post ww2 when people took there cars and adapted/made performance parts from stock items off of another car.
I theorize that the new 'hot rod' will be imports/small domestic (mostly FWD) cars because they are cheap, base lines are plentifull, and the factory made all the diffrent lines of cars they produce so modular that you can use alot of stock items from one car to upgrade your car.
the example of which is my subaru impreza, I can use the stock calapers with stock calaper hangers from a wrx in the front and legacy in the rear to make my disk brakes larger. The wrx and wagon came with a larger rear sway bar but also used the same sub-frame, so I can use one of those for mine. The exhaust systems are almost identical so I can use those so I can adapted a larger dia. wrx exhaust to use on my impreza.

It is because of this type thing that I feel these cars will be used as hot-rods in the next genneration when aftermarket parts are hard to find.

Well as your teacher will say -When using "Word Perfect" you can use the spell check within the program!!

Well enough of the sarcasm...

I did actually find your article interesting, makes me wish more young people would take the time to use the internet site www.google.com and do a search on automotive history.. I do think it is important that future generations continue with the car hobby... even if they will "hot rod" Honda's, Toyota's, Subaru's, etc..

Its not just limited to that..
The best example to this I have for the domestic side of things is the fiero.
It was a mixture of componets they had laying around the shop.
The used the front cradle out of a GM w-body car lasaber, montycarlo, lumana, grand prix.. ect for the rear subframe.
They used the front suspention out of a chevette, which was based on the opel cub very commonly found in rally back in the days.
What this ment was the 4 cylinder cars, which are very common today and are very cheap, can be outfitted with power steering from a chevette, a 3800 series 2 supercharged v6 from a GTP and larger brakes all around all using stock componets.
As you pointed out though, all of this will depend on the future gennerations taking the time and researching it all to see how they were made and what swaps with what.

I didnt mean to make it seem like I was saying that I think only imports will be the new hot-rods. I am just saying that they tend to domanate the 'tuner' seen because there parts are more interchangeable among the same brand lines, and they have been modified for longer, so they have a bigger aftermarket. The us brands are getting better with aftermarket, but still have very little in the way of diffrent configurations of the same type of car sharing parts.

I am terrable with grammer, spelling and what not so Im not even going to pretend, but that document was created in word and was spellchecked. I just dont have the sharp eye like most for the common mistakes I alaways make. Mind you thats just the doccument, all my posts about it, I could care less if they are spelled correctly.

[RD]

no offense, i did not read it all, and maybe this is selfish of me, but I do not care what future hot rodders are like.  I am a muscle car guy and I will stay one.  They can do what they want to do and that is fine, but it wont stop me from teasing them

[The Ghoul]

no offense, i did not read it all, and maybe this is selfish of me, but I do not care what future hot rodders are like.  I am a muscle car guy and I will stay one.  They can do what they want to do and that is fine, but it wont stop me from teasing them

no offence taken.
Im used to taking teasing, dont bother me none.