**UPDATE** To my HLPAG woes

[chargerboy69]

Man that sucks. I too feel that the small claims court option is probably your best option. Unless you have a lawyer in the family.

[AirborneSilva]

This advice makes lots of sense. It's a relatively inexpensize way to get your situation recorded. It causes them to give up some of their time and that will cost them one way or another.
In the end, if you get something out of the process, consider it a win.

Document everything that you've done with regards to this matter, but keep expenses separate from the amounts that are part of the original transaction.
Have it all organized. Have a TON of information but don't just haul in a wheelbarrow and dump it and say, Here. You fogure it out." (I'm sure you know this, I'm just trying to get my thoughts into words here.)
If you just ask for a big lump sum, the judge will get pissed. If you ask for X dollars in reparqations and X dollars in expenses, you have set things up for discussion. The judge might not reward every last bit, but if you state that you were not sure what needed to be itmeized, so you covereed everything and have good organized docs to back it up, it might help.
Make his job easy.
He doesn't really give a crap about what you've gone through. He working his way through a list of cases to get to the end of his day.

The AG may not see enough of a case to do anything now, but if HLPAG racks up a few small claims, BBB reports, and other complaints to the AG, the AG may come back to you sometime in the future.
Unfortunately, I think the AG is likely looking for one of two things in a case: easy win or politically charged. Either of those makes then look good. A tough fight for something with no public interest is a waste of time in their mind. That's my opinion, anyway.

It sucks that you have to deal with this at all. If you ever do end up working on the car, I think I offered my lower fender patches to you before. That offer still stands. I have some other parts that I won't need too, but nothing of great significance I think. Still, if I have it and I don't need it but you do, it's yours.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

I will be looking into filing a small claims here in Arizona.  I hope this can be done, then if nothing else I force them to come here at their expense so even if I should happen to lose at least they are out the cost of traveling from Illinois to Arizona.  I really want to start working on the car as soon as I can but I am not too sure when that will be.  The wife also offered to give me $2500 when her retirement comes in (she is medically retireing from civial service and will get some retro pay since she can't work while the paper work is in process), so with that money I will probably look for another Charger R/T (I may have a line on one from a member here), and either work on this one when I can or just let it sit until it is cost effective to work on it, I don't know!

[nh_mopar_fan]

You shouldn't have an issue filing there in small claims. Chances are, they won't show and you'll get a default judgement. After that, the fun starts. They will notify them that they've lost and there is a judgement against them and they must pay in a certain time. When they don't pay, you'll have to go back again. At this point, in NH, they issued an arrest warrant for the deadbeat that I sued.

When he posted bail, they gave me the cash. The judge was good enough post set the bail pretty close to what he owed me so I was happy.

I'm not sure how it will work when you're dealing with separate states. In my mind, that'll be the key. If you can get someone in ILL to move on the arrest warrant, you move the process along. If you can't, you may still never collect on your judgement.

But, with a judgement, you can then place a lien on them, I think.

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Sorry to hear about your problems with HLPAG. Too bad a lot of the good honest sellers are gone. Anyway you are not the only one going after them for selling a lemon. I sold my copper color 69 Charger SE to a guy in New Mexico through Ebay. He was telling me that he had bought a General Lee from them for $21,000 and it wasn't even close to what the pictures looked like. He said the interior was new in the picture and ripped up when he got the car. Also the transmission was completely shot so he couldn't even drive the car. All bondoed up of course. He said he was in the process of suing them to get his money back. I don't know any other details or what happened with the suit but just thought I would pass that along to you.

[Carlwalski]

I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but,,,, I don't think anyone in this country can go after someone in another country for slander.  You follow?? Lets say someone in Mexico starts a anti-HLPAG site. I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone from the U.S. is going down there to twist any arms!!

I was merely stating a site for those people who are against them regardless of if they are in Africa or mars.
(www) Worldwide web is a marvelous thing.  Starting a cult on the other hand, then your post would be correct........

[greenpigs]

We will also be looking into filling a small claims case against them.  At this point I think that is the only thing we can do.

Right, I doubt getting a lawyer will net any more money after the fee.

Ebay will cancel your auction if you slander a member, regardless if they deserve it.

Allblues idea sounded good, build a website that slams them and visit as many Mopar and Mustang web sites as possible and let them know what happened.

Print up a shirt saying hlpag screwed me and wear it to any automotive event you go to.

[Mike DC]

      
I agree to go after them for ONLY what you've got an airtight case for.

Maybe they did screw you outta $5000, but I think it's better to go to small claims court & politely nail them to the wall for half that.  Angrily push for all of it, and you might lose the case if the judge doesn't understand bodywork and the old car hobby.
(I'm not saying to under-cut what they really did.  I'm saying tell the judge that you know you got screwed royally, but you're not gonna waste his time and you're only asking for what's airtight in your favor.)

Once that's done, you're also much safer if you wanna go after them in more public ways.  They're gonna have a hard time claiming slander if the only "slandering" you're doing is telling some raw facts.  You sued them - and won - for fraudulent misrepresentation of a car they sold.

And realistically, is HLPAG gonna go after you?  I doubt it.
I really doubt that HLPAG is gonna want to do anything that might enourage official attention to their business's habits in this area.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We don't need to convince potential customers that HPLAG is dishonest.  Any digging into that business's history will make that point clear.

We just need to get to them first.  All it takes is to tell them SOMETHING, ANYTHING that will raise an eyebrow before they send money.

   

[adauto]

The whole thing sounds like a big f^<k story to me. But can somebody tell me who these guys are  Pardon my ignorance

[AirborneSilva]

The whole thing sounds like a big f^<k story to me. But can somebody tell me who these guys are  Pardon my ignorance

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post, but are you saying that I'm making this up?

[AirborneSilva]

     
I agree to go after them for ONLY what you've got an airtight case for.

Maybe they did screw you outta $5000, but I think it's better to go to small claims court & politely nail them to the wall for half that.  Angrily push for all of it, and you might lose the case if the judge doesn't understand bodywork and the old car hobby.
(I'm not saying to under-cut what they really did.  I'm saying tell the judge that you know you got screwed royally, but you're not gonna waste his time and you're only asking for what's airtight in your favor.)

Once that's done, you're also much safer if you wanna go after them in more public ways.  They're gonna have a hard time claiming slander if the only "slandering" you're doing is telling some raw facts.  You sued them - and won - for fraudulent misrepresentation of a car they sold.

And realistically, is HLPAG gonna go after you?  I doubt it.
I really doubt that HLPAG is gonna want to do anything that might enourage official attention to their business's habits in this area.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We don't need to convince potential customers that HPLAG is dishonest.  Any digging into that business's history will make that point clear.

We just need to get to them first.  All it takes is to tell them SOMETHING, ANYTHING that will raise an eyebrow before they send money.

   

$2500 is all I have ever been asking for from them but they think $.01 is too much and that they gave me a fair deal.  If I could get $2500 I would be satisified.  I know that it will take much more then that to get it to the point where they said it was but I'm not an unreasonable person.

[Mike DC]

   
Adauto,
This thread is not a bullsh*t story.

HLPAG is an old car dealership in Illinios.  They're well-known to be crooked.  They sell GL clones, usually hastily thrown together cars with major problems that you can't see in the photos.  They're basically a worst-case scenario for ripping off enthusiastic "Dukes" fans who don't know much about cars but want to buy a General Lee right away.

               

[Lowprofile]

Sooner or later, [hopefully sooner] his screwing people is going to catch up with him. It truly sucks bro, but it sounds like your gonna have to take the hit and keep on steppin'. Even when you are righteous, the law fails you. 





It sounds like this guy, and for that matter his whole crew need a good old fashioned ass-woopin'!   

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Airborne,

Honestly your only option is small claims court. you can pick up a book on the proper way to do it at any book store. Sue for whatever the max small claims amount is in your state, and with the e-bay add description and photos + your real photos, you will win hands down. I will stake my life on the fact that they won't show up for the court date.

The only problem is that you will never collect a dime from them, I hope you realize that. On the plus side, you will then be able to deduct the loss from your taxes, and you may be able at least cause them a minor annoyance with the lien.

I can't tell you how bad I feel for your situation, or how disgusting it is that this country has come to the point that the rip off artists and criminals are coddled, while decent people are reduced to totally powerless patsies. I wish it wasn't that way, but the e-bays, HLPAGS, and any other business or entity is totally immune to social responsibilities or legalities, while the rest of us are held to impossible standards. I wonder what the founding fathers would think of this.

My suggestion to you would be to part out the Charger so that you can recoup some of your money, then start looking again. I'm afraid that if you try to save it, it will only leave a bitter taste in your mouth every time you try to work on it, as well as consume far more money than you can afford.

Good luck in whatever way you chose to go.

[Troy]

The whole thing sounds like a big f^<k story to me. But can somebody tell me who these guys are  Pardon my ignorance

At the top of the page directly under your user information is a field for typing in search terms. If you type in HLPAG and then hit the "Search" button you'll find things like this:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6717.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,8091.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,5382.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1924.0.html


Airborne Silva's Story:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6464.0.html

And if you're really bored, you can get an idea of the people you get to deal with here:
http://sillypatrick.bravehost.com/hlpag1.htm

Troy

[adauto]

Mike and Silva, I was not aware of who these guys are. So it was a straight question..no bullshit intennded. seeing I am in Wisconsin I'm surprised I never heard of them before.  But I'm glad I know about them now!!! Thanks

[adauto]

Silva and Mike...another stupid question. Do they go by another name also?? Are they in northern Il. or elsewhere I though I knew who all the northern classic dealers were. It's good to know who to STAY AWAY from. Troy your imput is also helpful. Thanks

[Troy]

Hans Leudtke Performance Auto Group. They also have several eBay IDs and most of the accounts have hidden feedback.

Troy

[adauto]

O OK "Them Luedkte Boys" Ya I know of these guys, just was not aware of trhe other name. Thanks

[bull]

And if you're really bored, you can get an idea of the people you get to deal with here:
http://sillypatrick.bravehost.com/hlpag1.htm

Troy

Ahhh, the good 'ol days, eh Troy? I still get a kick out of that thread.

[AirborneSilva]

Mike and Silva, I was not aware of who these guys are. So it was a straight question..no bullshit intennded. seeing I am in Wisconsin I'm surprised I never heard of them before.  But I'm glad I know about them now!!! Thanks

I'm sure there was an apology in there somewhere, I'll see if I can find it later when I have more time 

[rollingthunder]

go here and write a review about them

http://local.yahoo.com/details?id=17170380

[chargerboy69]

And if you're really bored, you can get an idea of the people you get to deal with here:
http://sillypatrick.bravehost.com/hlpag1.htm

Troy

Wow. That is a classic. I cannot believe that guy. . .

[2Gunz]

Im not a lawyer so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Slander -

The oral utterance or spreading of a falsehood harmful to another's reputation.

Untrue spoken statement which damages someone's character.

words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another.

As long as you are not speading lies and you beliieve your version of what happened is true and not malicious,
you are not in danger of being slanderous.

And if websites such as these exist, I would say a little old car website might (hopefully ) ruffle some feathers,
but not be legal troble for you.

http://www.fuckmicrosoft.com/

http://bushandcheneysuck.com

http://wakeupwalmart.com

www.paypalsucks.com


If you can screw with the president of the United States and worse yet Microsoft, I think you are pretty safe.
And just to be extra safe, register and host the server in China .

Anyway procede with caution, but I think we would all love to see an anti Hlpag website. And please make sure the name is close
so ya get some google action.

[rt green]

one of these days their going to piss off the wrong people. and when that happens, they will get theres, legal or illegally!

[Carlwalski]

one of these days their going to piss off the wrong people. and when that happens, they will get theres, legal or illegally!

I agree.  Hopefully they sell a rusty heap to the Russian Mafia. 

What comes around goes around...........