production number question

[cbrestorations]

now before i started this, i did search the forum and didnt find it...how many 68 r/t triple black 4 speed chargers were produced?

[6bblgt]

Colors were NOT tracked for 1968, so the only way that can be answered is "KNOWN TO EXIST".

I know of 6 factory original black '68 4-speed Charger R/Ts (3-HEMI & 3 w/440s) only one has a black vinyl top (one has a gold interior).

the easy answer: NOT ENOUGH!!

[Troy]

As mentioned, there's not a definitive answer. However, they didn't make a lot of black cars then (about 2.5% if I remember right) and very few 4-speeds in the grand scheme of things. A LOT of cars came with a vinyl top so the odds are in favor of many having it and the only colors available in 68 were black, white, and green. I had a black one with a white top and I only knew of 1 other. There were a lot of interior color options but the overwhelming majority were black with white, blue, and green being popular (blue and green usually matched/complemented the exterior).

Known numbers:
96,000 total Chargers
17,584 R/T Chargers
17,109 R/T Chargers with 440
2,743 R/T Charger with 440 and 4-speed

You could come to a reasonable guesstimate by extrapolating 2.5% in black to get about 69 cars. And assuming the large majority of black cars had a black interior you'd get maybe 60? And probably 60% or better odds of them having a black top so maybe 35-50?

Troy

[Mike DC]

 
Both of the Bullitt prop Chargers are suspected to have been repainted black for the movie.  And there's some evidence that the stunt car was automatic.

[cbrestorations]

 

[69CoronetRT]

As mentioned, there's not a definitive answer. However, they didn't make a lot of black cars then (about 2.5% if I remember right) ...

Troy, if colors were not tracked, where does the 2.5% come from?

[lloyd3]

Excellent information Troy, thank you!  Any guess as to survival rate for the 440 4spds?

[6bblgt]

im super happy to have this coming to a driveway near me lol. 

  you'll have to let me know 

[Troy]

As mentioned, there's not a definitive answer. However, they didn't make a lot of black cars then (about 2.5% if I remember right) ...

Troy, if colors were not tracked, where does the 2.5% come from?

Sorry, that one came from the registry and/or Galen's "known cars". It's not a Chrysler provided number but one I found while researching my black/white/white car. It's an overall Charger number which could vary by XS/XP. I highly doubt that suddenly they made 40% of R/Ts black so it's about as accurate as any other guess. Either way, a triple black 4-speed R/T is pretty rare whether that number is 10 or 500. I can see if I can find that source and the percentage (which may very well have changed since that was at least 10 years ago).

Excellent information Troy, thank you!  Any guess as to survival rate for the 440 4spds?

Not really. The number of cars produced is so small any way that you'd really be able to get close if everyone who had one reported it. That's simply not the case. The survival rate of the original engine in front of a 4-speed seems to be significantly lower than the automatic (lack of a rev limiter was a big deal). I get a little suspicious when I see "numbers matching" on a 4-speed car with any race history. Mine has the numbers transmission but the engine has been MIA for over 25 years (and I suspect much longer than that).

Troy

[lloyd3]

My motor is from 1968, but is most-likely not numbers matching (motor built in Trenton engine plant 6-months before production date). I've no-idea when that change happened (probably early-in it's drag racing history, which was when I believe it "lived" in western Iowa with it's 2nd owner). I was just curious as to the overall survival-rate of 68 R/T four speeds. My original guess was about 10% (which would be about 270), but that seems high to me now.  About 100 cars remaining seems more realistic. But it could even be less than that. Four speeds had hard lives.

[Troy]

I wouldn't expect the car itself to have a drastically different survival rate than an automatic - I just doubt a whole lot of them are numbers matching. I looked at several before I bought mine so I don't know that I'd agree with a number as low as 100. It seems as if the more desirable cars may have a higher survivability rate (look at the number of 500s, Daytonas, Superbirds, T/As, and AARs that still exist).

Troy

[6bblgt]

I'd bet your original 10% estimate is closer to reality than ~1%.  The higher on the food chain in desirability the higher the survival rate is going to be.

a quick look thru the 1968 440 Charger R/T numbers that I have good tag info on:
163 - XS29L8s
29 - XS29L8s w/4-spd

both numbers are oddly close to that 1% number - I have no delusion that I have good info on anywhere near 10% of the remaining '68 440 Charger R/Ts.

[Nwcharger]

I'd bet your original 10% estimate is closer to reality than ~1%.  The higher on the food chain in desirability the higher the survival rate is going to be.

a quick look thru the 1968 440 Charger R/T numbers that I have good tag info on:
163 - XS29L8s
29 - XS29L8s w/4-spd

both numbers are oddly close to that 1% number - I have no delusion that I have good info on anywhere near 10% of the remaining '68 440 Charger R/Ts.

Just sold mine but you can record it if not already xs29l8b264552 440 auto.

[Ghoste]

I'd bet your original 10% estimate is closer to reality than ~1%.  The higher on the food chain in desirability the higher the survival rate is going to be.

I agree with that.  Now how many four speed cars survive with their original transmission versus automatics might be a different case. 

[Chad L. Magee]

I'd bet your original 10% estimate is closer to reality than ~1%.  The higher on the food chain in desirability the higher the survival rate is going to be.

I agree with that.  Now how many four speed cars survive with their original transmission versus automatics might be a different case. 

I would say most of the 4-speeds lived hard lives, especially on the higher end of the horsepower spectrum.  None of my seven 4-speed Mopars (Chargers, Superbees or HP2 Satellite) have the original transmissions with them.  The 4-speed going into my 1970 Charger RT came from a nearly identical car (triple black, stripe delete), except it was a V code version.  The donor car did not survive an accident in the early 1980s (bad rollover)....

Most of my automatics are still original to my cars, so that does mean something....

[lloyd3]

Don't know about numbers matching, but I could be talked into a 5% survival rate. Ten percent seems too-high.

[Ghoste]

The number I've always heard was around 20%.

[lloyd3]

I'm not sure that there is really any way to know. All I know is that in the 20 years I've owned one, I've never seen another (every other 2nd Gen Charger I've seen personally, no matter the year, was an automatic). When I was actively looking for a car, the one I bought was the only decent one that I ran into (the rest were either too-far gone, or way too-pricey for me, even then).  I have seen respectable versions listed for sale in various parts of the country, but not in great numbers (maybe 5 or 6 over the years?).  I'll buy the fact that the more-desirable, high-performance versions do tend to have a higher survival rate, but if there were actually 20% still rolling around, I'm fairly certain I would have seen another by now.  Ten percent survival means roughly 270 original 440 4-spd cars still registered and driving.  With no way to prove it, my guess would be more like 150 registered, functional and roadworthy cars still surviving. Also, by my definition of "original", I'm not counting cars that have been converted from automatic to four speed.

I'm also not counting project cars, as they are in limbo in my mind. More of a collection of parts than an actual car. That isn't meant as a knock on these types of cars, but more of a reflection of the significant cost associated with properly bringing one back to actually being completed & driven these days. And that number just keeps on going up.

[Ghoste]

Its a big world and not finding lots in one small part of it doesn't mean much for or against.

[lloyd3]

Well.......maybe.

[Ghoste]

Its one of those impossible questions really.

[Nwcharger]

Maybe I look for chargers too much but I seem to find at least 1 68 charger rt 4spd once a year or so. I passed on one last summer because I was buying my 69 c500

[diego]

You could come to a reasonable guesstimate by extrapolating 2.5% in black to get about 69 cars. And assuming the large majority of black cars had a black interior you'd get maybe 60? And probably 60% or better odds of them having a black top so maybe 35-50?

It's my understanding that color production was not kept - at least it's not displayed in the current info that Galen, etc. that floats around. The exception would be the buffed silver. Color info starts to appear in '70.

So I don't give much credence to "guesstimating" anything. And applying one statistic to another, such as 60% onto 2.5%, is statistically incorrect - for the sake of example, assuming the 60% is real, that percentage would be derived from total R/Ts so it could not be applied to a smaller sample.

Additionally, I don't know what "survival rate" means. The 10% number popped up a long time ago and people use it here'n there, but how should it be applied? To all cars built in a certain year? Okay, so wouldn't that mean applying that percentage to a certain model also be statistically incorrect?

All I know is that black seems to have a different connotation in 1968 and today. Back then, black was for 4-door sedans like Newports and Cadillacs, not performance cars like today. And comparing 1968 to 1971, for example, may show a shift in color preferences because people's preferences evolve with what's going on culturally. From numbers I have for several other brands, black is at best a MOR color. Break it down to minutiae, like 1970 Hemi'Cuda ragtops, and it seems to be quite popular, but that's just a micro view that requires macro judgment because, in the end, black was not a terribly popular color for the 'Cuda.

[cbrestorations]

i just purchased an original triple black 68 r/t 4 seed. always wanted one but never thought ide find one in project car condition. i was just wondering as an educated guess how many were produced.

[ws23rt]

i just purchased an original triple black 68 r/t 4 seed. always wanted one but never thought ide find one in project car condition. i was just wondering as an educated guess how many were produced.

I guess you got a few opinions about that so far.
It is not a question that has a bottom line answer.

My addition is that few in numbers is a bit different than few in the neighborhood.

In 1980 I bought my Coronet from a guy that had a red C500 charger 4sp. He told me it was one of only three made. This was a time when they were only ten years old and I accepted his knowledge at the time as being (at least close to correct)

If one uses how often they see a particular car as being a measure of how many their are it is a mistake IMO. At the very least a special car gains a reputation that varies right from the start. (rumors do that).

This is a big place we live in. Example for me is the hellcats. I've had one for a few weeks (and been looking for over a year to get one). The production for 2015 is over 7100 of them and they are making them as fast as they can yet I have only seen one in the wild other than mine.
I know they are out their but to measure their number by sightings is not a good measure.