Delusional Body Shop Customers

[green69rt]

$2000 at $50/hr only buys you 40 hours labor time to prime, block, paint, color sand and buff the car.    

To a competent body man, that's all the time they should really need.  Maybe 50 hours if they sand, and add a second coat of primer.  

Here's a link to another forum with decent discussion on this topic:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=50917

Yes, 40 hours labor is probably enough if shiny paint and a car that waves "hello" is considered satisfactory.    

You're in the wrong business, if it takes you more than 6-8 hours a session to block/colour sand/buff a car...

I know going over body work, and filler can take a lot longer, but just going over the surface of the vehicle???  

I can see it taking longer if you've done it yourself, in your garage/driveway.   But that's just one man's opinion...

Bottom line, I'd expect to pay 6-8K(Just paint, no body) for a solid paintjob...  Obviously not some crazy show winner, but decent enough to have that new car look about it.

I tried to say at the beginning of my post (didn't say it very well.)  Yes, just going over the surface may get you away for 8K, but how many shops would do that and how many people would want the result?   I wonder how many shops would even do it with any type of guarantee.  If the shop did it and the car came back 5 times for runs and dust specs it wouldn't take long to turn you off from even accepting that type of job.    Maybe the professionals on this forum would add a note or two??

[Mike DC]

 
15 years is the difference between 1972 and 1987.  15 years ago the WTC towers were still standing.  That's a long time.  That car probably needs to go down to the bare metal to get something long-lasting.

[Bastrd]

Hi, just a small reply to topic starter.

I put int EASILY 160 man hours on any kind of old american car (prepp + paint). Those are not even straight from the factory, if you want quality its going to cost you.
Never done a car under 160 man hours.

Ofcourse there are people faster and cheaper then me, but i dont want anything not up to standards leaving with my signature on it.
(Im located in Sweden, so any kind of material cost and or general manhour/rental cost may ofcourse differ).

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hi, just a small reply to topic starter.

I put int EASILY 160 man hours on any kind of old american car (prepp + paint). Those are not even straight from the factory, if you want quality its going to cost you.
Never done a car under 160 man hours.

Ofcourse there are people faster and cheaper then me, but i dont want anything not up to standards leaving with my signature on it.
(Im located in Sweden, so any kind of material cost and or general manhour/rental cost may ofcourse differ).

I've knocked on the door of 100 hours , just in sanding and buffing a car .
What is not being said here about the car in topic , is what the quality of the outcome is expected to be , or did I miss that ? If it is to "quickly" sand the primer , prep ,tape and paint , then maybe the cost is where the poster wants to be and would be a "cruise night quality" car,but certainly not a "wow" factor job. Myself , would NEVER touch another bodyguys "ready for paint in primer" job . Been there, done that .

[myk]

In defense of the 'OP, you guys have to understand that he, like many others, just don't know any better when it comes to body work and paint.  After all, unlike common automotive diagnosis and repair, bodywork and paint is more like an art form or a craft than your typical automotive work; rates and cost are consequently very different when it comes time to charge someone and pay.  You guys also have to understand that body work and paint aren't exactly regulated or officially governed.  When someone comes in with an overheating car and needs a new fan clutch, radiator and t-stat, well that's easy!  There are guides and standards that state how many hours a job like that should take and therefore how much to charge.  When a guy rolls up and needs ding repair, prime and paint well....how much the guy is charged is really up to the body and paint people doing the work.

A few years ago I was in the same boat as the 'OP.  My car had the usual minor rust spots on the dutchman panel, tail panel and the lower quarters.  These spots were so small you didn't even notice them unless you walked up to the car.  Also, the car's paint was shot.  I had everything from guys in pickups driving up to me in in parking lots offering to fix the rust and paint the car for $400, Macco's and Earl Schieb's estimating $2-4K, and private body/paint shops quoting me $8K-(?).  If someone doesn't know any better they certainly would think the private body shops were nuts for charging $8K+, especially since the guy in the old Chevy pickup in the parking lot only wants a few hundred dollars.  How is the layman to know any better?  

Thankfully I had DC.com to "sort of" explain it to me.  I say sort of, because when I came on here asking about the HUGE discrepancy in price estimates, a lot of the posters acted pretty snottily to my question, as if they were saying I was a complete moron for even suggesting a few hundred, or even a few thousand for the metal and paint work.  Again I, like the 'OP and a lot of other people didn't or don't know what goes into bodywork and paint.  It's about as mysterious to me and the masses as Eric Clapton's guitar skills are to mine.  Now I'm not trying to defend the OP's reaction to some of the posters, but like I've said many people don't understand what makes up body and paint work, so the best we can do is try to educate and leave it at that; calling people delusional or being otherwise derogatory isn't helping anyone or anything.  Just my five cents...

[Mike DC]

 

That's the longstanding problem with the paint/body industry IMO, for classic cars.  

The right shop gives you top metalwork + top outer work.
The wrong shop gives you (hidden) shoddy metalwork + top outerwork.

But there is no option for buying top metalwork + 20-footer outerwork.  So if you don't want the metalwork botched and seriously hurting your car, then you have to pay for top outer work too.  The combined cost of the job is forced into absolutely huge territory just to avoid leaving your car off worse than it started.




Like I said earlier, it's as if there was no such thing as a good stock rebuild for an engine.  You could either buy 500+ horsepower or get a cut-rate rebuild that doesn't even run right.  Nothing in between.  

[myk]

Exactly.  The custom car industry is a dangerous and expensive maze to navigate.  Who do you trust?  Where do you go to?  There aren't many options for people not in the loop and/or without deep pockets...

[el dub]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

[ACUDANUT]

 

[Chargerguy74]

I can send some to you. But I have never mastered the skill to post a picture on here, by myself. I am lucky to actually take pictures with a digital camera and send them successfully.

I'm sure there are several '73/'74 Charger enthusiasts that would love to help you post pics 

[DC_1]

Ask them how they arrive at that number.

Let's says they use $1500 in materials and paint and the shop rate is $75/hr

15,000
-1500
=13,500
/75
=180

So awre they going to spend 180 man ours prepping and painting the car? Are they also putting it back together? If they dedicate 1 man to the car he would be working on it 4 and a half weeks......Seems excessive if there is no rust or body panel replacement

That would be 4.5 WEEKS at 40 hours per week........

Oops!

Fixed it!

[lukedukem]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

Same here. My mother just got a quote to repaint her whole 96 extended cab Ford F-150. And to fix the roof where a limb hit it. 3500 bucks. Maybe some see a muscle car coming and think to add a little. Then again, I think it's that saying "you pay for what you get". when her truck is done we will see. The guy also has an old t bird in there too. But maybe he won't be as picky on the truck.

Luke

[Mike DC]

    
Old cars would be $3500 jobs too, if all we had to do was bolt on a few panels & shoot them with cheap paint/materials.  


That's what body shops did with old cars 40 years ago.  All it takes is a solid car + low standards for the result.

[ws23rt]

Painting a car is no different than any other job or task one is looking for.  It's a market place out their and one pays for what one asks for.

I have a 98 Dakoda pu. that is molting it's clear coat. An estimate I got from a good local body shop for paint (without being specific on quality) was $3500. This shop insisted that they would not be interested in giving me a poor quality paint job. I appreciate and understand their position.

I recall a painting estimate for an exotic car in the seventies being 70K. ---of course that was a complete paint restoration that required disassembly of the car.  

So --when we say we want a paint job what is it exactly are we asking??

[67440chrg]

A couple years ago I met a man with a real nice ranchero who removed all his trim and bumpers on a straight body. He took it to Maaco and they put a real nice paint job on it for $2000.00 they called it a classic car special or some sort of thing. It looked real good.

[myk]

It's all up to the painter and the shop.  This is because auto body and paint work is not officially regulated by any established standards...

[Canadian1968]

The Charger has been in primer for 15 years. No trim, nor the vinyl top is still on.  I figured 2K in body/paint prep work and 2K for paint.  In Kansas, that is a lot of money.

In primer for 15 years?
Primer is as porous as a sponge. It soaks up almost everything that gets close to it. The shop would probably have to strip it just to make sure whatever contaminants in there are gone.

Exactly .  It would be a big mistake for them to just take the car and say " oh its in primer lets just paint it ". Then in a couple months you start to see, bubbling , cracking whatever else may happen. Now you are furious and no doubt feel its should be fixed for free.   

Stripping the car down to bare metal again, metal finishing your "small dents" . Then go threw the regular proper steps for a nice job... ok 12K maybe a bit high I will admit but still 8-10K is not out of the question.  Now if you want that mirror like reflection and dead straight panel and lines..... 12K + is what your gonna pay.

I paint for a living in a shop that just recently won top honors for bodyshop in Canada. You pay to be a PITA when the job is done !! If you are going to be that guy that looks over the car for hours inspecting and trying to find a flaw... then don't expect to pay 5K .  Last year I painted the hood for a black Plymouth Prowler the owner was charged $1800 for the single panel, he also spend 45 mins inspecting it when it was done. 

The biggest part when when approaching a job like this is to be very clear that you and the body shop know what you are expecting bottom line.

[birdsandbees]

Where do you work c1968... in the process of sourcing a good shop to strip the 1989 PPG + clear coat job off my '69 Bee and give it a nice renewal. Needs to go to bare metal as it has blistered and lost adhesion in some areas.

[elanmars]

In defense of the 'OP, you guys have to understand that he, like many others, just don't know any better when it comes to body work and paint.  After all, unlike common automotive diagnosis and repair, bodywork and paint is more like an art form or a craft than your typical automotive work; rates and cost are consequently very different when it comes time to charge someone and pay.  You guys also have to understand that body work and paint aren't exactly regulated or officially governed.  When someone comes in with an overheating car and needs a new fan clutch, radiator and t-stat, well that's easy!  There are guides and standards that state how many hours a job like that should take and therefore how much to charge.  When a guy rolls up and needs ding repair, prime and paint well....how much the guy is charged is really up to the body and paint people doing the work.

A few years ago I was in the same boat as the 'OP.  My car had the usual minor rust spots on the dutchman panel, tail panel and the lower quarters.  These spots were so small you didn't even notice them unless you walked up to the car.  Also, the car's paint was shot.  I had everything from guys in pickups driving up to me in in parking lots offering to fix the rust and paint the car for $400, Macco's and Earl Schieb's estimating $2-4K, and private body/paint shops quoting me $8K-(?).  If someone doesn't know any better they certainly would think the private body shops were nuts for charging $8K+, especially since the guy in the old Chevy pickup in the parking lot only wants a few hundred dollars.  How is the layman to know any better?  

Thankfully I had DC.com to "sort of" explain it to me.  I say sort of, because when I came on here asking about the HUGE discrepancy in price estimates, a lot of the posters acted pretty snottily to my question, as if they were saying I was a complete moron for even suggesting a few hundred, or even a few thousand for the metal and paint work.  Again I, like the 'OP and a lot of other people didn't or don't know what goes into bodywork and paint.  It's about as mysterious to me and the masses as Eric Clapton's guitar skills are to mine.  Now I'm not trying to defend the OP's reaction to some of the posters, but like I've said many people don't understand what makes up body and paint work, so the best we can do is try to educate and leave it at that; calling people delusional or being otherwise derogatory isn't helping anyone or anything.  Just my five cents...

How much did it cost you to get your car painted? Just curious.

[Canadian1968]

Where do you work c1968... in the process of sourcing a good shop to strip the 1989 PPG + clear coat job off my '69 Bee and give it a nice renewal. Needs to go to bare metal as it has blistered and lost adhesion in some areas.

I work for a shop in London ON, we are mainly a collision repair center we do little custom / restoration work . A job such as yours deserves a dedicated restoration / hot rod shop !

[birdsandbees]

Thanks for the honest reply!

[johnnycharger]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

Hey El Dub
Where do you recommend going for a quality paint job in Nor Cal that won't break the bank?

[hemi-hampton]

I like when people say the price of paint or restoration to much & say I'll do it myself out of my garage. Then 5 or 10 years later after putting 2 or 3,000 hours work into it & many many thousands of dollars into it they are still not done & now realize it was tougher & more time then they thought. Then they might figure, Gee, I could of bought one done cheaper then this. Next thing you know there car is on ebay as a half finished project. LEON.

[el dub]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

Hey El Dub
Where do you recommend going for a quality paint job in Nor Cal that won't break the bank?

sent you a pm

[cdr]

I like when people say the price of paint or restoration to much & say I'll do it myself out of my garage. Then 5 or 10 years later after putting 2 or 3,000 hours work into it & many many thousands of dollars into it they are still not done & now realize it was tougher & more time then they thought. Then they might figure, Gee, I could of bought one done cheaper then this. Next thing you know there car is on ebay as a half finished project. LEON.

SO TRUE !!!!!!!!