Questions about 1970 door VIN decals

[moparnation74]

Didn't they start using Door VIN decals sometime in 1969?

Really? Well mine car is a 11-1968 build, but if anyone know or has a late built 69 can you check. I would think
that they would wait till the first 70 but you could be correct

Luke

For the charger line. Door Vin decals started for the 70 model year and forward.  The early production 70 models built in late 69 had door VIN decals.

[ECS]

Didn't they start using Door VIN decals sometime in 1969?

All vehicles for the 1970 model year were required to have the decal applied.  By August of 1969, every car was manufactured with the decal in place when it left the Factory.  Some Manufacturers actually started using them before the deadline date of August 1969.  General Motors applied them earlier than any other manufacturer I have documented.  I've seen one original example that came on a GM car that was made in February 1969.  The earliest I have documented a Chrysler vehicle is June 1969.  All of those were Daytona examples and they used the "manual" typed font for their secondary print information.

On a separate note, I have information to pass along concerning a VIN with an Assembly Line, 2 digit year code made in February at the St. Louis Facility.  Charlie said he came across one of our originals that exhibit the 2-70.  I think he said it was for a Road Runner and not a Charger though.  Since it won't take hours to locate, I can post a picture (with the last few numbers blurred to respect the privacy of the Customer) if anyone is interested in seeing it.

[Moparpoolman]

I thought I've seen door VIN decals on a Daytona and wasn't sure about Chargers, thanks for making that clear.

[ECS]

I thought I've seen door VIN decals on a Daytona and wasn't sure about Chargers, thanks for making that clear.

You're quite welcome!  One thing I would like to make clear regarding the information I have posted here is that we are not a documentation Company and do not target one particular vehicle to research as it relates to VIN Information.  I have personally made thousands of 1969-1980 Chrysler "Classic" decals and have learned these aspects due to the repetition of seeing the data on a daily basis.  It was important to learn about the nuances of the different fonts and variations to provide a quality product to our Customers.  The more you know, the more accurate and correct your services will be!  I know that many of you are wanting to learn information specifically related to Chargers but the majority of these Chrysler variations are applicable across the board between the different Assembly Plants.  

If some of you would like for me to post Chrysler variations and VIN anomalies that are completely unorthodox, I would be happy to do so.  I can think of one particular 1970 Cuda VIN where I have only seen ONE example ever!  By showing these oddities, many of you will understand that the research being performed by some individuals is inconsequential.  I do not say that in a condescending manner!  It's just that some of these variations have no rhyme or reason for their weird format, other than un-provable random circumstances.  A good guess as to why they existed might be the only "logical" explanation available.

[moparnation74]

Here

The decal posted here intrestingly shows how the numerals/numbers can be off centered and even some of the individual numbers/numerals are lower or higher in each row. That member above even asked if that was correct.  So what may be unimportant to one may be important information to another.

[ECS]

The decal posted here intrestingly shows how the numerals/numbers can be off centered and even some of the individual numbers/numerals are lower or higher in each row. That member above even asked if that was correct. 

One would assume that it was "correct" by that fact that it is a photo of an original decal.  The staggered letters are a very common occurrence found on many Assembly Line Processed VIN Labels.  The printing may have shifted position as the blanks were fed through the processor.  During the next shift or run of cars, the characters could have moved again to illustrate a slightly different look than the ones previously printed. 

Every time the label stock was reloaded, a slight change in the charter positioning may have occurred.  It was simply the residual effect of the characters moving due to the perpetual motion of the printing mechanism.  Similar to other typing machines, a charter will sometimes hold a pattern slightly different than the others surrounding it.  It was not a designed or planned feature of the printed characters. 

[moparnation74]

The decal posted here intrestingly shows how the numerals/numbers can be off centered and even some of the individual numbers/numerals are lower or higher in each row. That member above even asked if that was correct. 

One would assume that it was "correct" by that fact that it is a photo of an original decal.  The staggered letters are a very common occurrence found on many Assembly Line Processed VIN Labels.  The printing may have shifted position as the blanks were fed through the processor.  During the next shift or run of cars, the characters could have moved again to illustrate a slightly different look than the ones previously printed. 

Every time the label stock was reloaded, a slight change in the charter positioning may have occurred.  It was simply the residual effect of the characters moving due to the perpetual motion of the printing mechanism.  Similar to other typing machines, a charter will sometimes hold a pattern slightly different than the others surrounding it.  It was not a designed or planned feature of the printed characters. 

Since that is a true example of an original door vin decal with the variances noted and answered earlier in this thread.  To recreate an authentic reproduction of this door Vin decal would require the same format as shown above.  So if the customer decided to do a complete restoration saved the original but wanted an exact reproduction.  Are you able to perform that?  Do you have any examples?

[Charger-Bodie]

The decal posted here intrestingly shows how the numerals/numbers can be off centered and even some of the individual numbers/numerals are lower or higher in each row. That member above even asked if that was correct. 

One would assume that it was "correct" by that fact that it is a photo of an original decal.  The staggered letters are a very common occurrence found on many Assembly Line Processed VIN Labels.  The printing may have shifted position as the blanks were fed through the processor.  During the next shift or run of cars, the characters could have moved again to illustrate a slightly different look than the ones previously printed. 

Every time the label stock was reloaded, a slight change in the charter positioning may have occurred.  It was simply the residual effect of the characters moving due to the perpetual motion of the printing mechanism.  Similar to other typing machines, a charter will sometimes hold a pattern slightly different than the others surrounding it.  It was not a designed or planned feature of the printed characters. 

Since that is a true example of an original door vin decal with the variances noted and answered earlier in this thread.  To recreate an authentic reproduction of this door Vin decal would require the same format as shown above.  So if the customer decided to do a complete restoration saved the original but wanted an exact reproduction.  Are you able to perform that?  Do you have any examples?

He is able to do that. We just had one done for an AAR Cuda. Matches exactly. Really fast turn around too.

[moparnation74]

The decal posted here intrestingly shows how the numerals/numbers can be off centered and even some of the individual numbers/numerals are lower or higher in each row. That member above even asked if that was correct. 

One would assume that it was "correct" by that fact that it is a photo of an original decal.  The staggered letters are a very common occurrence found on many Assembly Line Processed VIN Labels.  The printing may have shifted position as the blanks were fed through the processor.  During the next shift or run of cars, the characters could have moved again to illustrate a slightly different look than the ones previously printed. 

Every time the label stock was reloaded, a slight change in the charter positioning may have occurred.  It was simply the residual effect of the characters moving due to the perpetual motion of the printing mechanism.  Similar to other typing machines, a charter will sometimes hold a pattern slightly different than the others surrounding it.  It was not a designed or planned feature of the printed characters. 

Since that is a true example of an original door vin decal with the variances noted and answered earlier in this thread.  To recreate an authentic reproduction of this door Vin decal would require the same format as shown above.  So if the customer decided to do a complete restoration saved the original but wanted an exact reproduction.  Are you able to perform that?  Do you have any examples?

He is able to do that. We just had one done for an AAR Cuda. Matches exactly. Really fast turn around too.

Would you be able to provide a picture of that example?

[Charger-Bodie]

here you go.

[moparnation74]

here you go.

Bodie, thanks for the picture but that was not what I was asking earlier.  Please refer back to my post about off centering and letters/numerals that are staggerd on an original tag.  Just like the one I pictured earlier.

[Davtona]

here you go.

Bodie, thanks for the picture but that was not what I was asking earlier.  Please refer back to my post about off centering and letters/numerals that are staggerd on an original tag.  Just like the one I pictured earlier.

Brians original example looks off center to me. Just not as extreme as the one you posted. Repo tag reflects that too.

[Charger-Bodie]

I think you are talking about when each character is ascew from the next? That i cant say on. But the cuda one is placed in the space off center just like factory one.

[TUFCAT]

Keeping up with the theme.... here's one from a 1970 Superbird that is notably different for reasons explained on page 6. Obviously a Lynch Rd built car, but different nonetheless.

[moparnation74]

I think you are talking about when each character is ascew from the next? That i cant say on. But the cuda one is placed in the space off center just like factory one.

Ascew?  I think what you meant to say is askew.  An alternate term is stagger.  The same terminology ECS referred to in a previous post.

[Charger-Bodie]

I think you are talking about when each character is ascew from the next? That i cant say on. But the cuda one is placed in the space off center just like factory one.

Ascew?  I think what you meant to say is askew.  An alternate term is stagger.  The same terminology ECS referred to in a previous post.

Yeah that's what i meant. I'm usually not too bad of a speller.

[hemigeno]

I've seen the process in person that Dave Walden used to make these particular VIN decals.  It was all done by hand back then, by him personally; and Dave is meticulous (read: obsessive) enough to make sure that it matches the pattern exactly, even to his trained eyes.  If you give him an original pattern to go by, he can match any spacing, orientation, indexing, etc. that they used.  If it doesn't match, he starts over.  Seriously.  He's got the fonts to match all the standard-issue decals I've seen, and most of the oddballs I've ran across too... including '69 Daytonas -- or at least those Daytonas which got a decal, but that's a whole 'nother story.

If there's no original pattern to go by, Dave will either give the customer the layout they want (as was the case with the '70 "V-code" A/C car in the other thread) or go by the dominant pattern he already has from other original examples.

[ECS]

Brians original example looks off center to me. Just not as extreme as the one you posted. Repo tag reflects that too.

This should help to eliminate whatever discrepancies these guys continue to look for.  I went ahead and made the one from the photo provided from Charger Downunder.  I also included a picture of the 2 digit year code (Road Runner) from the St. Louis Assembly Plant.  Also pictured is Charlie & myself, holding the two printed copies of the decals we made.  I just wanted to make sure there is no doubt that we did them earlier this morning.  

If it helps, my blood type is O positive, I'm 53years old (54 on March 16th) am 5'11" & weigh 218 lbs.  If there is any other information that tufcat & MN74 needs to know about me please don't hesitate to ask!

I have to run for now to work on the 4 Door Concept that was originally seen by Roger Johnson at the Chrysler Headquarters in 1969.  It will probably end up being a better OE representation than all of my previous efforts.  You guys are going to love it!

NOTE:  If Charger Downunder would like to have the 2 reproduction decals we formatted from his photos, please send me a shipping address and I will be happy to forward them to you.  Thanks for posting your original photo!





   

[nvrbdn]

I sent don a pic of my door tag. I found this thread to see if there was an answer to what he was looking for. I read 4 pages of this crap attempting to get someone to show if there was a time that the switch was made. I gave up. I just wanted to know that being that I own a 70 dodge charger and obtain an original sticker on my door, when did mopar make the change? if this was ever answered in this thread, please tell me. I can't waste any more time reading about bickering. its like going to my parents for dinner with 13 kids between the ages of 2 and 13 all wanting the same popcicle.  

[charger Downunder]

Back on track

If you have your original door decal Dave can make it exactly the same as seen by my example.

The date change for the year format  happened Feb or March sometime still waiting to get more examples of original decals to sort this one out.

If you don't have an original decal Dave can make one in the font and format that was likely used at the time.

Now if I saw a 70 Charger for sale and it had a nice new looking door decal which would be easy to spot after 40years I would ask the seller if he had the original decal and I would want to see it. If he went to the trouble to get a new one made up he would have kept the original one on file if he had it. Plus the seller shouldn't have a problem saying who made the repro decal when asked if he said ECS made it I am sure Dave would give more info if requested.
If the seller told me its original and I can see its clearly is not I would walk away from the car.

If the seller said no I don't have the original decal and told me he had it made up i would ask who made it. I would continue looking at the car as the seller is being honest with me.

[nvrbdn]

I can see a need for the ability to acquire an original looking sticker. I can also see the possibility to have a missing sticker or the wrong sticker on your car. if a car was in an accident lets say back in the day (70's) and the drivers door was toast. would the repair shop that acquired a replacement door from a salvage yard, or parts department care if the right sticker was on the door? then if you were replacing it, would you want it to be as the factory would have?

[JB400]

I can see a need for the ability to acquire an original looking sticker. I can also see the possibility to have a missing sticker or the wrong sticker on your car. if a car was in an accident lets say back in the day (70's) and the drivers door was toast. would the repair shop that acquired a replacement door from a salvage yard, or parts department care if the right sticker was on the door? then if you were replacing it, would you want it to be as the factory would have?

I'd rather it be known the door was replaced, instead of covering it up with a counterfeit sticker.

[Charger-Bodie]

I can see a need for the ability to acquire an original looking sticker. I can also see the possibility to have a missing sticker or the wrong sticker on your car. if a car was in an accident lets say back in the day (70's) and the drivers door was toast. would the repair shop that acquired a replacement door from a salvage yard, or parts department care if the right sticker was on the door? then if you were replacing it, would you want it to be as the factory would have?

I'd rather it be known the door was replaced, instead of covering it up with a counterfeit sticker.

Really? I own a collision/resto shop and we strive every day to do repairs that are indetectable.

[Davtona]

I can see a need for the ability to acquire an original looking sticker. I can also see the possibility to have a missing sticker or the wrong sticker on your car. if a car was in an accident lets say back in the day (70's) and the drivers door was toast. would the repair shop that acquired a replacement door from a salvage yard, or parts department care if the right sticker was on the door? then if you were replacing it, would you want it to be as the factory would have?

I'd rather it be known the door was replaced, instead of covering it up with a counterfeit sticker.

Let me get this straight. This door on my car isn't original because the car was hit back in the day. So during the current restoration we repainted around the old cruddy door sticker which is to another car that doesn't exist anymore. That's better than putting a new "counterfeit" repo sticker which would at least have a number that is correct to the car on the door. I hope the interior door panels pretty nice because I would not want to put a "counterfeit" repro one of those on this incorrect door. At some point the idea of a restoration is to improve the cars appearance back to new looking status not like it just got fixed in a body shop in 1973.  

[ECS]

......instead of covering it up with a counterfeit sticker.

We do not offer "counterfeit" stickers.  They are as legitimate and original as the ones manufactured by Chrysler.  Below is the Chrysler Corporate Memo in case you missed it along with an internet links from Car Star and ABRA.  We are also Exclusive providers for those Facilities as well as others.



http://www.fenderbender.com/FenderBender/August-2011/CARSTAR-partners-with-ECS-Automotive-Concepts-to-provide-licensed-VIN-decals/

http://www.abraauto.com/