ATF wants to ban 223 AP ammo

[Mike DC]

Mike, you are way wrong if you think "The majority of the country" wants these bans. That's simply not the case, I am sorry. The majority of the country doesn't even have the information to make an informed decision on this ammunition. It's simply put as "armor piercing" and for the children, because cops, and also think of the animals! and all the mouth breathers eat it up.

As you say, the majority of the country doesn't even have the info to make an informed decision.  

But uninformed voters still affect polls & cast votes.  That causes us to do a lot of this stuff to ourselves.  

There are millions of people ready to side against anything called "armor piercing ammo".  Maybe the majority, maybe not, but that doesn't really matter.  What matters is there are enough of them to get a ban through. 

[ACUDANUT]

Good video, the green tip AP round really was not a AP round after all.  But the standard FMJ was. ?

[el dub]

Here's an effective weapon...

Calif. needs lots of those.

[RECHRGD]

And I still can't even find 22LR ammo..........

[bordin34]

M855 is approaching $0.75-$1 per round at gun shows now. My AR likes its steel case Tulammo anyway.

[John_Kunkel]

The ATF takes its marching orders from the HMFIC and his "ban all things relating to firearms" agenda is well known.

[thedodgeboys]

I think it's an excuse to get the cheap stuff out of the stores...

[greenpigs]

   
A huge percentage of the country is in favor of these kinds of bans.  We're doing it to ourselves.

Not this guy, and i don't even own anything that uses that round.

[bordin34]

I may have just bought 600 rounds of ss109/m855 for $10/30 at walmart.

[thedodgeboys]

This video starts out a little goofy but gets informative about 2 mn into it that explains what the rounds really are.

http://youtu.be/ikyzhv894N0

[Tilar]

I feel good as long as our cops are protected. 

When seconds matter the cops are only minutes away.  I'll hang onto my guns and ammo.

   
A huge percentage of the country is in favor of these kinds of bans.  We're doing it to ourselves.

Sorry Mike but the vocal minority are the ones that want it banned, the majority of the country want the commies to leave our guns and ammo alone.

[Mike DC]

 
It doesn't need to be the majority of the country in agreement just to get something banned.   This isn't a democracy. 

[Chargerguy74]

This is just the beginning of the disarming of America. We're seeing reclassifications of semi auto rifles in Canada, prohibiting many rifles, as well as the RCMP firearms lab stalling on assigning FRT numbers for new centre fire semi autos.

[polywideblock]

take a look at what they have done to the Australian people       

      they are even trying to ban swords and machete's now "for our own good", only a matter of time before bows are outlawed as well 

               question is why in these times of  world wide unrest ,  are our(western) governments trying to disarm us and  turn us into victims     

[Chargerguy74]

Why? Because something major is coming down the pipe. And it ain't going to be pretty.

[polywideblock]

who's pipe is it coming down but ? every time I examine this I see our own governments moving to take "COMPLETE" control  of "US"   

[el dub]

I don't see a pipe. I believe there are too many gun owners out there to let anything happen. Political or otherwise. A lot of pols, dems and republicans, have guns and want to keep them. Of all the pols out there, only so many are in charge..The rest want to keep their guns also.The second ammendment is in place. But hey, let it come down the pike. I'm ready for some change.

[WINGMAN]

  The next item on the ATF list will be 80% AR 15 lowers. I am a FFL and watch this stuff vary close. Also the next big elections are less than two years off and H Clinton will make gun owners vary uneasy when she throws her name into the hat. Just like when Obama ran there will be panic buying.  I WILL happen  (Wingman)   Jay.

[Chargerguy74]

I'm talking more tinfoil and big picture. Economic collapse, world war, etc.

[redmist]

  The next item on the ATF list will be 80% AR 15 lowers. I am a FFL and watch this stuff vary close. Also the next big elections are less than two years off and H Clinton will make gun owners vary uneasy when she throws her name into the hat. Just like when Obama ran there will be panic buying.  I WILL happen  (Wingman)   Jay.

Nah, they are already after the 80% stuff... Look at Ares Armor for that example. the next move will be to ban lead core ammo under EPA rules.

[twodko]

My questions starkly parallel Poly's concerns. The last thing I want to do
is kill someone. Granted there are some who a life has been wasted on
and truly deserve to be killed off for the good of society.
What are our governments thinking in terms of disarming us?
I can only suspect that they simply bend
to their constituents and financial backers whims despite the reality of
how they cast their votes in congress, senate, house of commons etc.
What else could it be?
If there is any bad juju coming down the pipe it will mean the end of
civilization as we know it. The 2nd amendment that I support with my
life was written in a time far different than now.
Frankly gentleman, we wouldn't stand a chance against the forces that would be
brought to bear against any national "insurrections" the populace might mount
when we've finally had enough. It's not just our governments we would face, we would/will
have fight the true "powers that be". Corporate America/UK/Australia/Canada/Japan et al.
Where the money is lies the power and force.
People speak laughingly yet with underlying uncertainty and fear about a "global"
government and the security force necessary to enforce such rule but think about
it.
There will come a time when the world population will be under sino-islamic-northamerican control.
Somebody in the Mid East is going to light the fuse and begin the cascade of such events.
Those left standing will be what's left of north America, China, sub Saharan Africa, east Asia and the
Middle East. From that will come of that will be a global government. It's the only possible way we will
keep from perpetrating an extinction level event on ourselves. I fear this and may quite possibly
see this happening in the last years of my life.
Humans have become an infestation on this planet. The only way to survive and not kill our planet, and we are
talking about our very existence, is by way of a harsh global governing entity of some sort.
It's also quite possible that the elite have a plan to de-planet and colonize some other unsuspecting
planet and let the rest of us rot. It sounds far fetched and 5150 but.........
On these happy thoughts I'll stop jabbering away. 

[Lord Warlock]

We are pretty much past the extinction level event at this point.  The flash point is in the middle east, and someone there WILL use a nuke in the future, and the world powers will respond in kind and there will be no more middle...middle east. But it will not be the Mutual Assured Destruction I lived under in the 80s when I had my fingers on the launch keys to 20 ICBM Nukes.  (8 alerts a month) Even now half of our arsenal is now gone, and the missiles I was in control of are disassembled and stored or destroyed.  Still have plenty if Iran decides to get balsy and act too big for their turbans. Same with N. Korea.

Anyway, the guy that said a large percentage wants gun or ammo bans is mistaken, that number is more than likely less than 10% of the nation, trying to impose their will by taking away the freedoms of the rest of us.  As far as this particular ammo goes, it doesn't impact me, but I disagree with it, and would vote against it because it was being done for the wrong reason and not by a majority of the population.  When a true representation of more than 50% of our nation elects to ban guns will be the day I accept it, I won't abide by it, but I'll accept it.  When I see that coming close, I'll buy a reloader and plenty of brass and supplies to reload my own. Until then I'll maintain the small inventory I keep for home protection.  I don't need much, I'll drop any intruder in two or three shots. And not feel bad afterwards either.  I got past that feeling when I agreed to launch nukes on the world and kill millions at a time.

[Mike DC]

Meh.  

The last 70 years have demonstrated that people are a lot more reluctant to nuke each other than we give ourselves credit for.  With all due respect to the threat of a nuclear WWIII, the whole thing is just not as militarily useful as we tend to think.  It was possible to destroy whole cities before nukes, it just took more effort.  It has never been the most effective way to defeat an enemy overall.  And the international repercussions would be serious enough to concern anyone, including Putin or the Chinese govt.  

Even terrorist groups would rather behead individuals than delete whole cities.  I think the terrorist groups decided years ago that 9/11 was too big of a provocation.  15yo virgin boys love to die for causes but the grown men in charge do not.  Osama didn't die wearing a bomb or even up in the mountains.  He got shot inside a nice urban house.  

And unlike during the Cuban missile crisis, today one nuke explosion does not automatically guarantee a lot more most follow.      



As for govts taking guns, that is just what they do.  Out-of-control govts take everything they can from the citizens.  Money, power, rights, property, etc.  Its standard practice.  There doesn't need to be any larger plan behind it.    

[el dub]

Well I don't understand some of the things you said. Like, It has never been the most effective way to defeat an enemy overall. Maybe tell me how we won WW2. Seemed real effective to me and the rest of the United States. And the terrorists groups, Even terrorist groups would rather behead individuals than delete whole cities. Beheading people is normal to these guys. I sure hope not to see the day if any of them do get their hands on a nuclear device. And you better hope so also.
         BTW I missed the nuclear blast during the Cuban missle crisis. what are you meaning here?   No one is going to take any guns away from any americans due to the second amendment. Our govt. is not out of control. 
              Would you give your gun up if they came to take it?

[Mike DC]

  
The A-bombs played a role in hastening the surrender of Japan in 1945.  But IMO that role has gotten overblown a bit.  They also surrendered because Russia turned against them at that same time, and a good case can be made that Russia had more to do with it.  The advent of firebombing cities at the end of WWII was basically just as bad as the early Atomic bombs.  We had already obliterated Tokyo by firebombing and Japan didn't respond by surrendering.    

Look at the Civil War here at home - General Sherman's march to the sea was demolishing a bunch of Southern territory and it didn't make the South want to surrender.  Only military defeat did that.  There are other cases in history suggesting the same thing.  Destroying a city pisses off your enemy.  It may hurt their resources.  But it won't make them stick up a white flag by itself.  Countries keep fighting until their military options are exhausted.  

 
Beheading people is normal for terrorists.  That proves they are evil but it doesn't prove they are illogical or stupid.  The people in charge of those organizations recruit enthusiastic teenagers with nothing to lose to do their dirty work.  But if you offer the terrorist bigwigs a course of action that guarantees they will all get blown off the map right away?  The bigwigs probably won't take it.  The teenagers have the death wishes, not so much the men in charge.


The Cuban Missile Crisis was a very close call with no nukes going off.  But in that case if the first one had gone off, it would have been a full-on nuclear war between USA & USSR.  Dozens of nukes all over the map going off.  But if one rogue terrorist group nukes somebody today, it is not automatically going to cause the same cascade of nukes falling all over several continents in the next 20 minutes.