Global warming FREEZE......

[Paul G]

It's cold today, been cold all week, frost warning tonight, cold all next week, and thats in Phoenix. The weather on the news just now showed the entire country is going to be cold next week, including us in Phoenix.

I personally think it is just the natural cycle of the Earth. But what do I now? How long will it take for the so called "experts" to come up with "entering another ice age" non sense like they were saying back in the 80's.  

[tan top]

 yes that's what I think too ,  natural cycle of the earth  
going off on a tangent a bit , with all this talk about green house gasses , & pollution etc  , nothing is ever said  , ( well that ive heard anyway ) about all the trees being cut down all over the world ,  contributing to the green house effect  ,  trees take carbon dioxide & other gasses out the air & release oxygen  , no idea how , but that's what they do !   , i'm no tree hugger ,  or  scientist  ,  

[ws23rt]

When it gets cold people feel cold--This is called winter.
I like the change in climate as the seasons change.   
Would we not be more alarmed if it did not get cold in winter?

[Mike DC]

    
1984:  
"These Liberals are crazy.  Climate change is a myth!"


2014:  
"These Liberals are crazy.  There's no proof that climate change is caused by man!  They've been wrong about all this stuff for decades!"


2044:  
"These Liberals are crazy.  People generations ago didn't have the info to understand they needed to change their ways to prevent all this climate change!"  

[Mytur Binsdirti]

As a kid growing up in the early 1970's, the hysteria was that the sky was going to turn black and we would enter a new ice age.....

http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html



In the late 1970's we were told that the world would run out of oil in 20 years.......

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/jimmy-carter-world-to-run-out-of-oil-by-2010/



In the 1980's there was the big ozone hole scare where we were all going to die from skin cancer....

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2009/09/what_ever_happened_to_the_ozone_layer.html


And for the past 15 years or so, the latest cliamte scare is global warming which has turned out to be more manufactured crap since the world has actually cooled off.....

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/06/15/forget-the-temperature-plateau-earth-undergoing-global-cooling-since-2002-climate-scientist-dr-judith-curry-attention-in-the-public-debate-seems-to-be-moving-away-from/


And why would anyone manufacture such crap? As the old saying goes, follow the money.......

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703939404574566124250205490

[Mike DC]

  
I don't like the politicization and profiteering attempts either.  


But the rising sea levels are even easier to follow than the money.  The changes are still real and they have been exponentially worsening since humans started industrializing.  




At end of the game it doesn't really matter though.  Mankind isn't going to change its habits in any big way, harmless or harmful.  

[XH29N0G]

I hate writing this because it will get blasted and then I will get  grumpy..... , but it would not be responsible of me to let this go.

I agree that there are some nut cases out there - on both sides - but the world and its climate is changing and it is not a just liberal conspiracy.  The military, winemakers, big business and others think about it too.

Change can be warmer or cooler, it can be wetter or dryer, the term climate change encompasses a lot and is more than global warming. It is natural in the sense that climate responds to external and internal processes that exert some sort of control on it.  Human activity has changed the way some of these processes operate and humans have most likely had an  impact on climate broadly defined.  Some people think the reason we are not in an ice age right now is because of farming activities of our ancestors.  That is a good thing?  Right?  We also do things that are not so good.  Right? The politicians arguments are more about how much it will cost and convenience than about climate change itself.  Some of it is also just because we like to disagree and rile others up.  
 
Is climate change the biggest thing facing us?  I don't know, and I suspect there are some more immediate things like food, water, and the ability to fight disease (or war).  Time will tell.

[Paul G]

In my opinion climate change is real. It has been real for millions of years. The deserts used to be oceans, sea fossils on mountain tops, etc. All known facts if you paid attention to science and history in school. This planet is constantly changing. Has been for millions of years. The seas rise, and they fall. I grew up on the south shore of lake Michigan. There is a ridge about 10 miles south of the existing shore line of the lake. It is an old shore line, one of many left by the receding lake over the years. They built a road along the ridge and called it Ridge Road. Smart people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calumet_Shoreline

How can a sane person blame mankind for what the planet does naturally? How long has mankind been recording the Earths temperature? How old is the Earth? How long has man been on the Earth? We are but a mere spec in time for the Earth. How do we know that the "ice age" is over? Do we know what caused it? Are we to blame?

It makes me really stop and think you know? Who do we think we are? We give ourselves way more credit for being able to have a "cause and effect" on this planet than we deserve. Live right, clean up our messes, dont pollute, all good things that we have learned since the "iron age".

Because it's Christmas I will say, God put us here knowing we are imperfect. We will make mistakes, and learn from them. But, can we really have such a detrimental effect on this planet like some would like us to believe we have had?

That's what I think. Well then, maybe next year there wont be any gas for my cars, the desert I live in will be 130° all year long, California and New York will be completely submerged by the rising sea levels, and the Mississippi river will stretch 10 miles across.    

[Paul G]

At this point I dont know if we need to be saved "from the planet" or saved from the ones who think we are "killing the planet".

Sorry, I had one more thought.

[Paul G]

One more thing. It is COLD this morning! I moved to the desert to get away from the cold!

[skip68]

There are plenty of regions that have been having colder weather than normal for years.   The earth is constantly moving and changing and always has been and so will the climate.   

I look at this whole global warming / global cooling crap for what it really is in the big picture.  Crap!
   It's just the planet doing what it's always done since the beginning of time.  Way before us and long after we're gone.   Man likes to think we have the answers and point fingers for something we've only been keeping accurate records for a blink of an eye in the life of this planet.   But what do I know, I'm just a man.   

[skip68]

Oh, one thing man can do.   Quit sending money to those countries that show kids without fresh drinking water.   This has been going on as long as global warming it seems.   Send some dam drilling guys there and drill some wells already.     
It'd be cheaper and could've been done years and years ago.   Yes folks, we (man)  is reeeeeeaaaal smart.   

[JB400]

Oh, one thing man can do.   Quit sending money to those countries that show kids without fresh drinking water.   This has been going on as long as global warming it seems.   Send some dam drilling guys there and drill some wells already.      
It'd be cheaper and could've been done years and years ago.   Yes folks, we (man)  is reeeeeeaaaal smart.    

If those people would quit fighting each other, and spend their resources developing infrastructure, we wouldn't have to send them money or support.

As far as the climate debacle, the Earth moves and wobbles, which causes the climate to change.  Why no one understands this, I have no idea.

[rt green]

cold front. hell I thought the ex wife was back in town

[el dub]

I'm glad to see that most people on this forum are smarter than the worlds top scientists. 
maybe you could show some proof of what you think, like scientists do.
Better stick to chargers, its what your great at.

[Mike DC]

  
The planet's climate is not stable over time, I think that is well agreed upon.  


But look at what has happened since the industrial revolution, factoring in the things we know and suspect about our activities.  It's beyond suspicious that things ramped-up just when they did, they way they did.


We could look at the constantly changing planet and say it's easily changed on its own.  Or we could look at the same set of facts and say it's delicate balance that is easily disturbed already and we have been disturbing the hell out of it.  We can just as easily blame or excuse ourselves for the changes.  People are going to look at it and see what they want to see.  

[skip68]

Of course we have an effect.   I personally don't believe it's as big as some scientist claims.   How many times have the scientists been wrong?  Several.   How many times have top scientists disagreed?  Several.  A scientist is only as good as the information available.   Can they tell me exactly what the temperature was on this day in my region 200 years ago? How about average temperature this month 200 years ago?   How about average for the whole year 200 years ago?   I highly doubt it with 100% accuracy.   I'm not trying to fight with anyone as everyone is entitled to their opinions.   We are not cattle.   We have the ability to question and should question any of mans claims.   Whether that man be a scientist or just a charger guy with an opinion.   

[Old Moparz]

 

[twodko]

cold front. hell I thought the ex wife was back in town

Now that's funny right there!

On to the topic at hand.....

Weather patterns are historically cyclical and have always been.

With that said with the infestation of humans on this planet, our massive consumption
of global resources combined with industrialization have indeed
altered the natural patterns of historic weather cycles.

Thank you. You may send money to Twodko Q5 big block global warming assistant

[skip68]

  
Dammit.  I hate when you're right Tom.     
The checks in the mail.   

[twodko]

 
Dammit.  I hate when you're right Tom.     
The checks in the mail.   

Bless you my son..........The Q5 is all knowing....all seeing
Yet merciful and has plenty of cold beer!

[polywideblock]

rising sea levels are real    

 where I live there are rock shelves exposed at low tide  ,when I was a kid  you used to be able to walk out on them in shoes on a totally dry surface  once the sun had dried it out . now that same rock shelf is under water up to your knees ALL the time    

[Paul G]

rising sea levels are real   

  where I live there are rock shelves exposed at low tide  ,when I was a kid  you used to be able to walk out on them in shoes on a totally dry surface  once the sun had dried it out . now that same rock shelf is under water up to your knees ALL the time     

I will ask this question; Do we now with any certainty if that rock shelf was exposed 200 years ago? 500, 1000, 10000? I dont know if it was or not, does anyone? With the limited information that we have, how do we know it is not a normal cycle? Again, the information that we have gathered in our (mankinds) time is just a spec in time.

We took a trip to the Grand Canyon. In one of the observation satations on the south rim, there was a park official telling the story of the north rim, which is viewable and fully exposed to viewers on the south rim. The ranger explained that the colors you see in the of layers of rock going up the side is from changing geological patterns over millions of years. Some layers were dry, some are filled with see fossils, they were very wet, then dry again, all the way up the rim. I asked how that could be? He explained that at times the whole thing was submerged, then later in history it was eaxposed to air, then resubmerged, over and again. What does that tell you?

I think some little creature that lived on the side of the hill who was drying out questioned what the heck he did to cause the place to dry out. You think? 

[XH29N0G]

These are the right questions.  

Sea level is a bit tricky.  In some places rising sea level is because the land is sinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_Island).

The fact that the area around Washington DC is sinking while the area around Hudson's Bay is rising - like a see saw - might come as a comfort to some of you, but maybe it is not fast enough.  

My guess is that it is very difficult to put one's hand on a spot to pick up true sea level rise from personal experience, but who knows  .  (I don't doubt that there is a small (measurable amount due to added ice and water and a small amount due to thermal expansion of water as it heats up a little bit in the oceans), but I think it will be a number of years (maybe a little longer than I have) before we really start seeing it in a way where we can say - "When I was a kid....."  I remember thinking my grandpa Herb was nuts to tell me that it looked like he could walk on fish when he was a kid.)  (I am of the camp that thinks we have, and can influence climate.  Thanks for not roasting me too badly.)    
 

[ws23rt]

The discussion about global warming/climate change has become a convoluted mix of science and emotion.

I see the bottom line of why this topic gets so heated as coming from those that see humans as disgusting invaders of a pristine garden.
They also see humans out of proper perspective to the size of the place we live in.

An example of perspective is a calculation I read somewhere.----If all the known oil reserves in the world were to be burned all at once it would be like burning a birthday cake candle in a 2000 sq ft house.

I agree that humans do affect the climate but when that statement is made is doesn't address the degree of affect.  If one were to take a salt shaker with them to the beach and sprinkle it on the sand that beach is then salter than it was before they came. The beach was affected and changed by that human.

As was pointed out earlier the land moves up and down as does the water level. The grand canyon is a great example of the land moving up. It has not been suggested that I know of that the water level was once at that elevation (about a mile).  The land can only move up so high before is sinks back down under its own weight.

The hole in the ozone layer issue of the past is a good example of someone pulling the fire alarm because they just learned that their was an alarm to be pulled and did it just incase there was a fire.  For the first time we were able to see and measure the ozone layer and found a hole in it. Yikes a hole on the ozone---we must have done that and therefore it must be bad.  

Has anyone considered the possible negative affect that whale poop has on the water quality of the ocean and how much better a place it might be if they would just stop that.

There was a time when we were reducing the world wide whale poop problem.