Ammeter Wiring Removal '69

[Skull-1]

Just got the car back from shop.  They did not remove my ammeter wiring from the dash.  The black wire touched some metal where the radio mounts....it arced and caught fire.

No damage.   But damnit I want this stuff out!   I was assured it had been disconnected at the source.  Apparently not!

Looking at the bulkhead connector....which wires go to the ammeter?

What do I do with them once they are out of the dash?

[fy469rtse]

they didnt know what you ment to remove , you cant do that ,
you can undo them from known fire point , which is the amp gauge
red and black larger wires, power feeds in loom,
these are spliced in and lead to nearly every where in dash circuits
the idea is to undo them from amp meter gauge , cut the rings off of each and put a low resistance splice crimped or soldered , prefferably both , joining the two wires together that were on amp gauge
have shrink tubing all ready slipped on one of the wires so you can slip it down after joining,
heat shrink tube , several layers
so any current is insulated from touching anywhere,
gauge is dormit, splice done
this is how Iv'e done mine
search the threads on hear for the fixes, because thats not all of it , but once done , should have no problems with this area

[Skull-1]

So I have to splice them together somehow.   That's all there is to it?

Just splice them and wrap them?


I can do this myself I take it?


And again, there is no way to do this OUTSIDE the dash?

[Dino]

You have to tie them together behind the cluster, no way around it.  I got rid of the stock ammeter wires in mine completely and replaced the red wire and fusible link with an 8 gauge wire that goes through the firewall and straight to the main splice, where I removed the old black wire.  That's a bit more work though but nothing too crazy.

[Pete in NH]

As Dino suggests you really want to get the bulk head connector pins out of the charging circuit path as well. Bypassing the  ammeter behind the dash is kind of addressing only half the fire issue. Especially with bigger than stock alternators.

The way to do this is run a new wire from the alternator output stud, with a fuse to the battery stud on the starter relay. The size of the wire and fuse depend on the alternator output rating. Then as Dino suggests, run a new #8 wire from the battery terminal through a 50 amp Maxi-Fuse to the splice joint. Both of these new wires should go through a grommet-ed hole in the fire wall. I would follow the original wire from the alternator output stud back to the bulk head connector and clip it off at the connector. The original wire should be a #12 black wire.

[Skull-1]

Understood.   Am I okay to splice them together for now to eliminate the arc hazard?

I can tackle Dino's method later.

Just gotta get this thing tamed for the moment.

[Dino]

Yes you can, just make sure you use the proper fuse.  Secure the wires as best as possible.  I don't like the idea of bolting them together.  Best to use a butt connector and solder them, covered in marine type heat shrink.  If you HAVE to use a bolt then make it super tight and use plenty high quality tape.

[Shakey]

Yes you can, just make sure you use the proper fuse.  Secure the wires as best as possible.  I don't like the idea of bolting them together.  Best to use a butt connector and solder them, covered in marine type heat shrink.  If you HAVE to use a bolt then make it super tight and use plenty high quality tape.

That's what I did.  Used a proper sized nut and bolt, very tight and then wrapped in heat shrink.

[Skull-1]

What about cutting the terminals off and using a crimp connector?

[Dino]

What about cutting the terminals off and using a crimp connector?

Same as using a butt connector and the best way to do this.  

[Chargen69]

on one of my chargers i just screwed the wires to the same pole

[Brass]

on one of my chargers i just screwed the wires to the same pole

Me too - out of the way and hassle free.

[Skull-1]

on one of my chargers i just screwed the wires to the same pole

I would try that but the black wire caught fire.  I think I have to cut it and crimp....

[Dmichels]

If the wire caught fire the insulation could be compromised. The hot wire could have damaged the insulation on other wires as well. You probably do not want to here this but you should very carefully inspect any wires that are bundled with the ammeter wires. You really should not do half the job now. Take Pete's advise and do the whole job. It will not take that long. The original design was a bad idea when new. Now it is 40 years old and had a dead short that caused a fire. There is a very real potential another electrical fire. Will you be there next time to put it out?
Sorry if I made you paranoid
Dave

[Skull-1]

It is a new harness from Year One.

The fire came from the ground contacting metal.  It torched right at the metal clip with no other wiring near it.

I want to do it right but nobody seems to know how.  I sure don't...   

[Skull-1]

I seriously want this out of my dash.   

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

It's not a hard modification to make but, it depends on how comfortable you are working with wiring. I can walk you through step by step if you would like or give you a step by step list you can take to someone if you are not comfortable doing the work yourself. First question what size alternator is on the car? Is it a stock Mopar unit or has it been changed to something bigger?

[Skull-1]

It is not stock.  They put a totally different system in it which I am not happy about....

Any help is appreciated in advance.

[Skull-1]

I think I posted pictures of it elsewhere.   I will try finding the thread unless you beat me to it.


Here it is.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,112910.msg1390925.html#msg1390925

[Dmichels]

The wire that contacted metal has battery positive regardless of insulation color. Any positive wire will arc when it is shorted to ground. There is an underlying design problem with the charging circuit wiring on these cars.  Pete's advice is sound and an accepted solution.  The spark you saw was one thing. The wire could heat up and melt the insulation quickly. The wire can actually turn red hot in a few seconds and melt insulation. The damage may not be apparent with a causal look.  If you are not comfortable with this type of work, find someone who is. You should address this problem and correct all the issues associated with it. Sorry for sounding hard-line, but this needs to be taken care of.
Dave

[Skull-1]

No problem.  For now the battery is disconnected and it will stay that way until I can get it modified...

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

Leaving the battery disconnected is a good idea until you get this issue sorted out. Dangling wires with battery voltage on them is never a good idea. That alternator is bigger than a stock unit, here's what I would suggest-

1-Get yourself a 10 foot piece of #8 wire with black insulation and a 8 foot piece of #8 with red insulation.

2- Find three ring terminals for #8 wire, two a 5/16" ring, the other a 1/4" ring.

3- Get two heavy duty Maxi-Fuse holders from NAPA and one 50 amp Maxi-fuse and one 80 amp.

You will also need some heat shrink tubing to fit over the wire and ring terminal barrels and a crimping tool that will work with your ring terminals.

With the battery disconnected, disconnect the wire on the alternator output stud and follow it back to the bulk head connector pin. Cut it off at the bulk head connector pin. Crimp on your 1/4" ring terminal onto one end of the black wire. I would use just a little bit of solder on the connection as well. Slide a 1" piece of heat shrink tubing over the connector and shrink it with heat. Connect the end to the alternator output stud and dress the wire along the path of the wire that was originally on the alternator output stud. Connect the other end of this black wire to one end of a Maxi-Fuse holder and put a 5/16" ring terminal on the other end of the Maxi-Fuse holder. Connect this ring terminal to the 5/16" battery stud on the starter relay and install the 80 amp fuse in this holder.

Take your second fuse holder and install the second 5/16" ring terminal on one end and connect the other end of the fuse holder to one end of your red #8 wire. Connect the 5/16" ring terminal to the starter relay battery stud as well and install the 50 fuse in this second holder. Run the remaining end of the red wire through a grommet-ed hole in the firewall. Follow the black wire that used to go to the ammeter back through the harness to the "splice joint" and connect your red wire at the splice joint. Cut off the old black ammeter wire and tape up the splice joint connection well.


If you don't feel comfortable doing this, print out these instructions and give them to someone who can do automotive electrical work and tell them this is what you want done.

[69wannabe]

This is something I need to do with my car, So you are basically running a new wire with a 50 amp fuse and cutting the black battery wire out of the system and hooking the new red wire into the old red wire?? This is bypassing the bulk head connector and upgrading the wiring for the charging system correct??

[Dino]

Pretty much.

I mounted a 50 amp maxi fuse holder right above the bulkhead connector and used the tach dimple in the firewall to run the black 8 gauge wire through.

A red 8 gauge runs from the starter relay to the fuse where the black 8 gauge picks it up, goes through the firewall and into the main splice.  The original red and black wires are gone.  On top of that I have a 6 gauge wire running from the starter relay to the alternator and another from the relay to the batery with an 80 amp ANL fuse under the battery tray.  I also connected a 10 gauge wire to the ANL fuse to feed a 30 amp circuit breaker that powers the relays for the headlights.

Doing these mods make the ammeter read wrong if you want to keep it so be aware of that.  Hence my mod to build your own volt meter.   

[Pete in NH]

Doing the modification as I outlined it above will completely disable the ammeter an it will not read at all. If you are using a stock alternator in the 35 to45 amp range I would prefer to keep the ammeter working and use the fleet bypass modification that Chrysler did around the bulk head connector pins.