1969 Dodge Charger CAD model

[Armor]

Hi Guys,

                 I am willing to create the worlds best 1:18 scale model for a 1969 Dodge Charger. I am not satisfied with the finish & fine detailing in production versions of available scale models. I am a Tool maker, machine tool re builder and product designer by profession.

I am willing to make the 1:18 body using sheet metal forming just like they did for the 1:1 car. This gives better sharpness to the body compared to die cast models where edge radius becomes mandatory due to manufacturing process constraints.

I need some 3d data to complete my project. I want to know if anyone has 3d scanned a real 1:1 Dodge Charger body?  I have seen some 3d model for sale on the internet, but they were made from not so good 2d drawings, which induces flaws in them.



Thanks.

[Mike DC]

  
I looked for a good 3D Charger model one time, and the best one I saw was in a recent "Forza" series video game.  The interior could use a bit of work but the exterior looked really good, especially the overall proportions.  

IMO the screwy proportions are the most aggravating part about the existing 2nd-gen merchandise. Literally EVERTHING is wrong somehow.  There's the factory original 1/25th promo models made when the cars were new, and that's it.  Everything else made for the last 45 years has had something visibly wrong about it. Even the tooling for the promos was altered after 1970.


I'm not sure how you are going to get a more accurate small Charger using sheetmetal.  Seems like some some kind of molded plastic would be the only way to hold onto decent detail once you get down to an item that size.  

[ws23rt]

You are ambitious and I don't want to squash your idea but up front practical thinking through this beyond the 3d scan data needs to be done.
I have many years invested in metal fabrication and can see a lot of obstacles in getting the look you/we want.
The tolerances used on the originals was not all that close but scale that down and it becomes a real fabrication issue. 
It's amazing how small a detail will show up when it is put next to something to scale it to.
Model railroading has come a long way as have other miniatures but their is much mold making investment because of the market.

I see 3d printing coming along--Maybe that is a way to get the quality?   

[Armor]

 
I looked for a good 3D Charger model one time, and the best one I saw was in a recent "Forza" series video game.  The interior could use a bit of work but the exterior looked really good, especially the overall proportions.  

IMO the screwy proportions are the most aggravating part about the existing 2nd-gen merchandise. Literally EVERTHING is wrong somehow.  There's the factory original 1/25th promo models made when the cars were new, and that's it.  Everything else made for the last 45 years has had something visibly wrong about it. Even the tooling for the promos was altered after 1970.


I'm not sure how you are going to get a more accurate small Charger using sheetmetal.  Seems like some some kind of molded plastic would be the only way to hold onto decent detail once you get down to an item that size.  

If video game 3d models were usable, that would have been great, but I have no idea if its possible or not at this point. They are probably scanned models of a 1:1 car with licensing.

I am going to use sheet metal only for the body exactly like the 1:1 car. I am going to use either hydro forming or rubber pad forming method to get the required sheet metal shape. Then I will use a pencil die grinder to get the outline right. The material for the sheet metal is not fixed yet, but I am mostly eying brass due to its ductile nature. Other sheet metals are available like Austenite stainless steel which is used for utensils. For other components I will have to use plastic and rubber molds. In the current 1:18 scale models, the worst part are the plastic components due to their finish. I do understand sine they do it for profits, they cannot invest the necessary time and labor into the models which would other wise shoot the price way up.

I am currently building a high precision 3d engraving machine to machine copper electrodes. I have an EDM die sinker machine to make the molds.

[Armor]

You are ambitious and I don't want to squash your idea but up front practical thinking through this beyond the 3d scan data needs to be done.
I have many years invested in metal fabrication and can see a lot of obstacles in getting the look you/we want.
The tolerances used on the originals was not all that close but scale that down and it becomes a real fabrication issue. 
It's amazing how small a detail will show up when it is put next to something to scale it to.
Model railroading has come a long way as have other miniatures but their is much mold making investment because of the market.

I see 3d printing coming along--Maybe that is a way to get the quality?   

Thank you for the kind words.

I agree beyond the 3d scanning data there is a lot of work to be done. The 3d scanned data comes in point cloud which further needs to be converter to solid and then perfecting it. 
If you google search 'china pen' you can see the golden pen cover which is completely made from sheet metal. The detailing is pretty good. Then the pen nib is made form sheet metal. There are many miniature sheet metal components used in the industry today. I agree that it will be filled with obstacles, but its not impossible. It needs care full work and time investment on each individual part and I am willing to put in the efforts.Since I have the basic infrastructure to make the molds and dies, it won't matter me much regarding investment.

I am not in favor of 3d printing. Problem again is with the finished product. You can clearly see visible layers in it unless it is perfectly hand polished. Then there is the issue of tolerances which cannot be achieved within 500 microns with a 3d printer. Like you said, as we scale down the necessity of precision increases in order to keep the item scale. I would prefer chemical machining molds, but that is a whole different and a bit complicated technology.

[C500]

Through my work as a Surveyor, I have done 3D laser scanning and was planning on scanning my Charger just for the hell of it. We don't have a scanner where I'm currently based, (or a Charger that's in one piece  ) or this would be s fun task. Providing a point cloud or modelled data (converting to a solid as you refer) is what you would get.

[Mike DC]

  

Aren't we getting into something much too precise for even a coat of paint?

I guess you want the final product to be made of metal, and mass-producible with tooling, just for its own sake.  If you only wanted a few copies of something that looks extremely realistic at 1:18 then you would be better off hand-building it from plastics and modeling supplies.  



This is also pushing the limits of the materials other than metal.  A typical piece of plastic window "glass" on a 1:18 car would look like it's several inches thick at full scale.  That's not just an annoyance in terms of the optical clarity of the glass.  It's literally going to screw up attempts to build the roof pillars & weatherstripping areas accurately.  The rubber tires may also pose issues.  And I'm not sure how you want to handle stainless trim.  And details like the plastic grille.  Etc.  



When Hollywood SFX crews need a miniature with photorealistic accuracy they do it differently.  They work in much larger scales.  And they usually won't even try to stick with the original building materials; things just act too much differently when scaled down (even at the bigger scales they use).  Just some things to consider.  

Trying to make this thing metal, uber-accurate, and with repeatable tooling rather than a one-off handmade . . . I think it's pulling in too many different directions.  

[Dino]

Why 1:18?  It's not like you could market this.  Go for something a lot more fun like 1:8 or 1:4 even.  Now you'll be able to really put some detail into it and the result will be a whole lot more interesting than the 1:18 version.  Just a thought.

[Armor]

Through my work as a Surveyor, I have done 3D laser scanning and was planning on scanning my Charger just for the hell of it. We don't have a scanner where I'm currently based, (or a Charger that's in one piece  ) or this would be s fun task. Providing a point cloud or modelled data (converting to a solid as you refer) is what you would get.

When ever you have the equipment and car together, don't leave the chance to scan it. That would be cool and I will be interested in it.
I could turn it into a 1:18 and send you one that sits on your desk.

[Armor]

 

Aren't we getting into something much too precise for even a coat of paint?

I guess you want the final product to be made of metal, and mass-producible with tooling, just for its own sake.  If you only wanted a few copies of something that looks extremely realistic at 1:18 then you would be better off hand-building it from plastics and modeling supplies.  

Trying to make this thing metal, uber-accurate, and with repeatable tooling rather than a one-off handmade . . . I think it's pulling in too many different directions.  

I would say its a matter of personal choice. I have always found the process of creating, more interesting than anything.
It cannot be mass producible and never will be. The time and labor that will go into a product like this can never be suitable for mass production, since it would not fit into a profitable financial frame. And then there are licensing issues related to it.

What you say is logical, but trying to find answers to every problem before even starting it will never get anything started. Once the build process starts, solutions appear for every problem.

[Dino]

You've got the right attitude to be sure.   

Whatever you end up doing, I sure hope you will share it with us.   

[Armor]

Why 1:18?  It's not like you could market this.  Go for something a lot more fun like 1:8 or 1:4 even.  Now you'll be able to really put some detail into it and the result will be a whole lot more interesting than the 1:18 version.  Just a thought.

1:18 is the right size that can fit on to my desk and on a spot light lit, rotating base in some corner of my house.
Apart from that, I took into account what resources I have to build it.  

[Dino]

Why 1:18?  It's not like you could market this.  Go for something a lot more fun like 1:8 or 1:4 even.  Now you'll be able to really put some detail into it and the result will be a whole lot more interesting than the 1:18 version.  Just a thought.

1:18 is the right size that can fit on to my desk and on a spot light lit, rotating base in some corner of my house.
Apart from that, I took into account what resources I have to build it.  

Good points.  You'd need one heck of a desk to put a 1:4 scale car on.   

[Armor]

You've got the right attitude to be sure.   

Whatever you end up doing, I sure hope you will share it with us.   

Thank you.

I would love to share it with you guys

[SovereignZuul]

For model makers there is a 1:16th scale General Lee out there.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/mpc-dukes-general-lee-charger-plastic-model-car-kit-1:16-scale-752

I own that one, but I intend on turning it into a 1970 model.  I do a lot of 1:16th scale modeling, though it's usually RC Tanks and not car models.

1:16th is still pretty big.  1:6th is huge.  I've got a 1:6th scale r/c armored car.

[Mike DC]

 
The 1:16 scale General Lee kit is a pretty good source for most of the outer body shell's rough shape.  But everything else isn't much use.  It's a mid-70s Richard Petty NASCAR kit with the GL body retrofitted onto it in the early 80s.  Even the wheelbase/wheel openings aren't quite stock for a 2nd-gen. 

[C500]

Through my work as a Surveyor, I have done 3D laser scanning and was planning on scanning my Charger just for the hell of it. We don't have a scanner where I'm currently based, (or a Charger that's in one piece  ) or this would be s fun task. Providing a point cloud or modelled data (converting to a solid as you refer) is what you would get.

When ever you have the equipment and car together, don't leave the chance to scan it. That would be cool and I will be interested in it.
I could turn it into a 1:18 and send you one that sits on your desk.

Thanks Armor, something I will do, just a matter of timing.