74 charger rides like school bus and sounds like a squeaking bed springs

[jdscofield]

I've been restoring my 74 charger for two years now.  I finally got it on the road.  The performance isn't where i want it, but it rides and drives well.  so, now i want to concentrate on the other stuff, namely the suspension.  I have replaced the rear shocks with some monroe gas adjust shocks while i was laid off.  The previous ones were shot and they were cheap.  I also replaced the inner and outer tie rod ends.  The front shocks still need to be replaced.  This car bounces and squeaks and doesn't handle very well.  Can anybody give me some suggestions and name brands?

[HPP]

I'd call the guys up at Firm Feel and see what improvements they can offer in shocks. Even your new gas adjust units are not that great these days and an improved shock will go a long way to improving feel. you probably also need to replace the subframe bushings. That will help with the bounce and squeaks. They also can suggest improved t-bars and spring rates as well. 

[Paul G]

Your probably going to find that most everything under the car is worn out. Rubber bushings just go bad after so many years. You can try some spray like WD40 or the like, spray the upper control arm bushings down good and go for a ride. Try the lower control arm bushings next. Spring bushings on the rear leafs. See what quiets down the most. K frame bushings get squashed out over the years too. You can mostly see if one of them is gone, or they all might be. 

[Dino]

I've never driven a school bus but I doubt it's very precise.   

How's the sway bar looking?  If those bushings are shot then the car may feel like a drunk elephant.

[Paul G]

Also, check the coupler between the steering shaft and the steering box. I'll bet that has dissintegrated as well. A bad steering coupler can make the car wander all over the road.

[JR]

-Replace every bushing in the front end. Preferably with polyurethane.

- Make sure steering box nut is properly adjusted.

-Replace steering box coupler

- get a proper alignment with more aggressive camber/caster settings than stock. American cars used stupidly little caster back then, which is why they feel so floaty and twitchy on the highway.

- Step up to thicker torsion/sway bars. Especially if your car came with a small block originally. Ask who've you buy your front end components for a recommendation in what size.

- Good tires. Modern stuff. Ditch the cooper cobras and BFG TAs, their junk.

- I've read somewhere that a 74 has bushings isolating the K frame to the framerails. If this is true, replace those bushings as well.

-Later down the road, once the above is done, look into subframe connectors and a rear sway bar as well.

[Indygenerallee]

Good tires. Modern stuff. Ditch the cooper cobras and BFG TAs, their junk.

Hmmm,,,, Sounds like a bullshit statement.

[JR]

Good tires. Modern stuff. Ditch the cooper cobras and BFG TAs, their junk.

Hmmm,,,, Sounds like a bullshit statement.

Ok, ill clarify. If all you do is put around on a show field, or cruise at 55 to a cruise in, then TAs and Cobras are just fine. Especially since the rubber compound is rock hard and ancient technology. Hell, they'll last forever that way.

But for the purposes of making his 74 handle less like a school bus and more like a fun car, yes those tires are garbage.

[Indygenerallee]

Sorry, you don't know what your talking about. If you want a G machine then yes you want 18's or bigger but there are nothing wrong with 15 inch tire Hell let's see didnt the original Nascar record setting car the #88 have 15's on it?  

[JR]

You know, back 40 years ago they had no internet either. Who cares?

I know the old timers are attached to the outdated tires because it's what you grew up with and you think it looks best, but that's not what he asked.

He asked how to make his car handle better. I told him. If you're happier in 1979, you're welcome to stay there.

As for if I know anything or not, last year alone I ran a full season of autoX and 10 track days. Road Atlanta, TGPR, Atlanta Motorsports Park,  and Roebling Road.  Hopefully ill be able to get off work and make it back to roebling road this November.  Im quite content with my experience.

If you really want the car to handle better, ditch the rock hard truck tires.

[Indygenerallee]

Sorry I was born in 1979, Granted a low profile tire will handle better but as your original post stating that

Good tires. Modern stuff. Ditch the cooper cobras and BFG TAs, their junk.

Your wrong... sorry.

[JR]

Sorry I was born in 1979, Granted a low profile tire will handle better but as your original post stating that

Good tires. Modern stuff. Ditch the cooper cobras and BFG TAs, their junk.

Your wrong... sorry.

Id be wrong if i said 15 inch bfgs are crappy tires because their square, made of concrete, and won't fit on your car.

I'm correct to say that the rubber compound/tread design/handling properties of most cheap 15 inch tires are TOTAL CRAP compared to any half decent modern compound tire. They glaze over, offer inferior braking effectiveness, overheat easily, have a stupid low speed rating, and are in no way a performance tire.

Considering our old cars don't have ABS, it'd seem like more guys would want a stickier tire for that reason alone.

For a car that is driven gently, and never sees any sort of aggressive driving or spirited cornering, you're correct, there's nothing wrong with BFGs.

But for the topic at hand, (making the OP's 74 handle better), yes: their crap compared to good, modern rubber.

Saying there's nothing wrong with old fashioned 15s while discussing handling upgrades is like saying there's nothing wrong with using a 1700s musket  to defend your home because it's not junk compared to a modern shotgun or pistol. Sure, there both a gun, but tell me with a straight face that there's nothing wrong with a musket as a self defense weapon.

[Indygenerallee]

 

[jdscofield]

I inspected the bushings, they all look shot, even the ones on the motor mount.  All look squished.  Regarding the tires, I just said to my better half, the rubber is rock hard.  I have Dayton Daytonas on it now.  I wanted to switch to Kelly charger gt's because Kelly's used to be softer.  However, I was told Kelly doesn't make tires as big as mine anymore.  I like the look of the 15s because it I feel it gives the car the aggressive and intimidating appearance that goes with the cars reputation.  However, I'm not opposed to change and would be interested in seeing any pics with the modern rubber.  Back to the polyurethane bushings, are they difficult to swap out?  The ones on the leaf springs are shot and I was wondering how to swap them without the springs popping.  Didn't look at them in depth.  Just inspected them.

[JR]

Those worn out bushings in your car are probably responsible for alot of your handling problems. All that slop in those components mean that the slop has to be taken up before they can initiate the turn and do their job correctly. Go on and replace all of them.

Poly bushings are no more difficult to install than the rubber ones.  The installation is pretty much the same.

The advantage of poly over rubber is that it's a much  stiffer material, meaning you'll have quicker and more directly felt inputs. The downside is that they can squeak if not greased correctly, but follow the instructions and you'll be fine. I've had poly bushings (except for the LCAs) since 2005 and wouldn't go back now.

The rear leaf spring bushings will need to be done as well, but I'd focus on the front end first and foremost. Finish that, then move to the rear. It's alot less overwhelming if you focus on one end of the car at a time.

That's how I'm doing mine this week. Not my Charger, but my M3 I use for a track car. The chassis is due for a refresh. I'm doing the front end this week, and the rear end on my Christmas break.

It shows you can't underestimate the importance of every component in your car. It sounds alot cooler to say "I'm building an engine" than to say "I'm refreshing chassis bushings you can't see", but they are every bit as important to the health of your car.

[Paul G]

Slow down a little here. The op needs to know what he is getting in to. Poly bushings are great performance adders if that is what you really want. Along with stiffer poly bushings comes a harsh ride.  Make sure that is acceptable. Good cornering and stiffer ride may be great for a track car, but ride quality is lost. Is that what the OP really wants? Or does he want a car that drives normally, handles bumps well, corners well, and rides nice with no squeeks and pops. If so replace trashed out rubber bushings with all new rubber and keep the ride quality that was built in. Or do a combination of rubber and poly. Use poly on the stabilizer bars only. Get a little better cornering without the ride of a log wagon.   

[1974dodgecharger]

I would listen to Paul G he knows what he is talking about....

[JR]

Ride quality is probably a personal taste, but one thing to remember is that all our cars are 2 ton, 18 foot long boats with a huge wheelbase. They ride cushy by nature.

The difference in ride quality between his worn out old rubber bushings and new poly ones will be damn near undetectable.  Overly stiff torsion bars/leaf springs or (radically) low profile tires would have much more effect on ride quality. Of course, OP is welcome to read up on the Pros/cons of each. Ive ran poly bushings from PST in my 70 since 2005. No squeaks, no additional harshness in ride quality.

Also, if memory serves me right, 73-74s were softened up even more than 71-72s. The late 3rd gens were tuned much more for 70's era luxury than performance. He could give up alot of plushness and still have a softer ride than most of our modern daily drivers.

[Dino]

I've been thinking about poly vs rubber and will likely go with Paul's suggestion shared by others here.  With 17" wheels and the most pothole infested roads this side of the Mississippi I think having mostly rubber bushings will be best.

[myk]

Hotchkis.net

If the OP is looking for a cush ride he can grab an OEM rebuild kit and have at it.  If he daily drives a Civic and is looking to bring that agility he can't; however he can have some of it with aftermarket pieces and have a better handling boat....

[moparnation74]

Slow down a little here. The op needs to know what he is getting in to. Poly bushings are great performance adders if that is what you really want. Along with stiffer poly bushings comes a harsh ride.  Make sure that is acceptable. Good cornering and stiffer ride may be great for a track car, but ride quality is lost. Is that what the OP really wants? Or does he want a car that drives normally, handles bumps well, corners well, and rides nice with no squeeks and pops. If so replace trashed out rubber bushings with all new rubber and keep the ride quality that was built in. Or do a combination of rubber and poly. Use poly on the stabilizer bars only. Get a little better cornering without the ride of a log wagon.   

Well stated Paul!

Eliminate the noise first!  Inspect all front end suspension components and steering components.  Many possibilities of where that noise is coming from but I would start with the shocks first. 

If his current tires are in sound shape.  Repairing the suspension/steering is much more prudent then swapping tires at the moment.  Most folks in today's economy do not have an unlimited budget.

[HPP]

I've seen complaints that rubber bushings and worn springs are too harsh. Others are comfortable with sky high spring rates and bronze bushings. In between that are were most drivers fall.

It is entirely possible to have moderate spring rates with bad shocks that produce uncomfortable ride characteristics compared to significantly stepped up spring rates and very good shocks.

Before getting into a lot of mods, it sounds like some bushing replacements are needed for the OPs car. Depending on his expectations of improvement, bushing replacement may restore the handling characteristics to where he wants. It certainly will eliminate a lot of wallowing and the squeaks. If further improvements are desired, then changes to other components can be pursued.

Again, the original posters tolerance of ride will dictate rubber vs poly. Since most modern cars are sprung 30% higher than classic cars, a step up to poly will probably not be very noticeable compared to a daily driver. However, because the 3rd gen Chargers are not as well represented in the aftermarket, there may be components where you are limited to rubber.

As far replacement at home, in most cases yes, contingent upon your mechanical ability and tool sets. Some items are better handled by a shop with presses.

Again, I'd reiterate my suggestion to call the guys at Firm Feel and develop a plan of attack for replacement bushings as well as possible future upgrades. I will also suggest that you need to step up alignment specifications as well. I'd suggest using the specs from a 2000 Mustang to allow the local "toe and go" alignment shop to find a modern equivilant that is compatible with our old cars. After that, if you want to step it up further, then pursue a couple of thousand dollars worth of new wheels and tires that you can add that to the future upgrade list.

[1973rallye]

Replaced all my bushings on both cars with rubber, no complaints and quiet.   The only poly bushings used were K frame as rubber are no longer available. Rear leaf spring isolators were both in good shape which is fortunate as these are not reproduced. For the sloppy steering, replaced both steering coupler isolators which immediately addressed that. It will come down to what you want, but rubber was good enough then, and for my money, no regrets.