727 - '2' left over bolts? Are these for the transmission?

[72Charger-SE]

Ok... So I completed rebuilding the pump assembly and the front clutch.  Things are going however I am taking it slow so as not to damage any parts.  As stated in the manual I soaked all clutch discs in ATF for almost four hours.  I created my own 'three legged man' to remove the clutch springs from the front clutch so I could replace the seals..  You will probably all get a kick out of those photos... LOL..   I just used what I had lying around as I didn't see the need to spend $100 or so for the proper tool.   It worked.. LOL...

I am however having issues getting the 'snap ring' back in place on the rear clutch...  It would appear I do not have enough 'clearance'.

I followed the 'manual' exactly as stated in the photo...  

Am I supposed to 'compress' the clutch to get the snap ring into place?   Thoughts?  

To help me troubleshoot I removed the piston retainer so I could see if possibly something was bound up and not sliding...  That does not appear to be the case...  

Thanks to all in advance & GOD Bless!

[72Charger-SE]

A few more photos...

[ws23rt]

I believe the snap ring you are talking about is the "selective" snap ring.
The FSM calls for a clearance of .025"-.045" If yours won't fit you need a thinner one to give the clearance spec.

[72Charger-SE]

Is it possible I have the wrong snap ring in the wrong place?  I have zero gap to install the selective snap ring....

[c00nhunterjoe]

Also might want to rearrange the springs. If i recall, making it every other spring will firm up the shift. John kunkel should chime in as one of our resident 727 experts.

[ws23rt]

Is it possible I have the wrong snap ring in the wrong place?  I have zero gap to install the selective snap ring....

You posted a pic of the assy. sequence. --- --Could you have put the piston spring in upside down?

[72Charger-SE]

The lowest portion of the piston spring is towards the sprocketed opening ...  I think that is correct??

[ws23rt]

It is
In one of your photos I see a wave ring sitting on top. Is that an extra?

When installing the wave spring make sure it is in the groove all the way around.

[72Charger-SE]

That is the top snap ring that I cant get on...

[ws23rt]

The top snap ring is a flat ring. (the selective ring). That one looks like the wavy one that holds the spacer ring on the piston ring.

[72Charger-SE]

The really wavy one is holding the piston spring...  is this minimum wavy one supposed to be the top ring on the front clutch???

[ws23rt]

The top ring is a flat one. They come in different thickness to give the spec clearance.

[72Charger-SE]

Hmmm
I will take the front clutch snap ring off and try that on the rear clutch...

[ws23rt]

Hmmm
I will take the front clutch snap ring off and try that on the rear clutch...

That won't help.  It looks like you have no room for a snap ring according to your photo.
What I think you did is put the spacer ring in ahead of the piston ring. --- Refer to your exploded view of assembly sequence.--
The spacer ring is smaller diameter and does not fit the snap ring grooves.  It follows the piston spring.

BTW their are only wavy snap rings and flat ones.  A flat one can be twisted but not wavy.

[72Charger-SE]

Confirmed spacer ring is between the wavy snap ring and the piston spring as shown... other ideas??

[ws23rt]

Ok---I will make an assumption that the wavy snap ring is in fact seated in the groove.--Expanded when installed---
I would next put the old friction discs back in and if it all goes together than it is clear the new friction discs are thicker.  

Or measure them individually.  Also you may have mixed up the discs from the front clutch vs the rear

[72Charger-SE]

The discs are thicker...  able to install with old discs. ..  I may have the clutch discs incorrect however with these discs on the front was topped out with nowhere to put the snap ring...  what is a distinct difference with the discs?  The ones I am trying to install in the rear clutch are more grooved and notched...  the front clutch discs were flat with no grooves... correct or?

[ws23rt]

The grooving or notching is a difference of manufacturing/performance style. They need to be the correct thickness.

I think we have reached the end of my help.   I have some parts that  I was able to measure and in one case the front friction discs are about 3/32"-->090"
Some rear discs measured 1/16"-->062"  
This is not a good tell because they have miles on them.  All I could find is the front discs should be around .094" to start with.

I am stumped.---Look forward to others input on this.

John_Kunkel  will most likely see this and have the answer

[c00nhunterjoe]

I know the forward clutches had different thickness discs depending on if it was 4,5, or 6 disc drums but i cant recall if the rear is the same way depending on years and models. Its been a while since i did a torqueflite and i will have to dig out my book. Jihn kunkel will be able to rattle the answers off the top of his head. 

[72Charger-SE]

Thanks everyone..  I tried to swap two flat with two grooved and visa versa...  no go..  now I cant get either snap ring to seat properly?  Maybe order another smooth set of discs?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I would consult with john before ordering more parts. 

[72Charger-SE]

I shall wait for Dear 'John' before proceeding.  Thanks again...  That sounds kinda funny... LOL...

[c00nhunterjoe]

Lol. He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the torqueflight. Its well worth the wait for the conversation.

[375instroke]

If I remember correctly, the rear clutch plates are either smooth, or have grooves in only one direction.  The front clutch has a waffle pattern on them.

[72Charger-SE]

Waffle is a good term for me to understand...  Initially I tried the waffle pattern on the front with the same problem...  no clearance for the snap ring...  these new ones are much thicker than the old ones... The old ones don't have the waffle design. Or at least it is no longer visible due to wear?  All four smooth as well as the old rear clutch discs work in both the front and rear clutch with clearance for the snap rings...