Opinions - 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger

[Troy]

Not sure what you want exactly, but I was perusing my local Craigslist this afternoon and ran across these:
1971 dodge dart swinger - $11000
1971 dodge dart has a 360 727 tf has hurst shifter and shift kit 360 has cam headers weber carb runs drive great newer paint and new top super nice fun to drive has new interior new tires and chrome rallie wheels.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/4607283099.html

It's maybe 20 minutes from me and it wouldn't be terribly hard to convince me to drive it to you.

This one showed up on the same search but it definitely isn't "local":
1owner 1971 Plymouth scamp org 50.000 mi v8 nice survivor car - $8000 (Gurnee il)
1owner 1971 Plymouth scamp org 50.000 mi v8 nice survivor car runs like new no rust all original paperwork title from 1971 dealer invoice 318 v8 eight and three-quarter rear end all original never been touched The Rust in floorboards trunk rockers everything works too much too list call more more info
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/4669415225.html

Troy

[tan top]

      yellow one looks good  ,

 

[tan top]

   green one is another good car , but think your be needing  to change a lot of the original parts to make it a good driver , if your going to want to take it on longer trips than just round the block 

[Old Moparz]

The price on the green Scamp was dropped to $7100 & doesn't seem like a bad car. Like tan top said, it will need some work but what it needs seems minor compared to some for more money. The Scamps are never priced as high as the Swingers considering there aren't drastic differences. I've had my 1971 Scamp since 1988 & love it. If you're considering one of these A-Bodies with investment in mind then don't bother with a Scamp. The Swingers & the GT or the GTS are the better choice for that.

[twodko]

Thanks for all your input guys. I have a much better idea of what I want now.
The yellow one would be perfect. The green on green is nice as well requiring
only cosmetic things I could easily do myself.
At our club meeting last night I had the opportunity to sit in a members 70 Dart.
I found the bench comfy and had plenty of leg room. Certainly not as comparatively
roomy as my Charger but I liked it a lot.

[Troy]

Ok, I really like that yellow one I posted earlier BUT perhaps you should buy this one before I convince myself that I need it!

72 Dodge Dart with big block and TKO 600 5 speed - $15500 (LaGrange)

Or this one but it's a LOT nicer, rarer, and more expensive:
1968 Dodge Dart GTS - $24900 (Sidney)

Troy

[polywideblock]

have you thought about a demon or a duster  
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?_nkw=duster&_vxp=mtr



this one looks good http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Duster-Hardtop-RARE-1976-Plymouth-Duster-2-Dr-Hardtop-was-the-final-year-of-production-/301313050205?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4627a8465d&item=301313050205&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[bakerhillpins]

Hold out for a '68 or '69 GTS. That way you'll have two "S" cars. If you're really lucky, you can find a '69 in the same color scheme as your Charger. 

Strangely, the GT and GTS have better lumbar support than Charger seats, even though the buns are the same. Something about the stitching in the cover, I guess.

I'm with 20-mike mike on this. I like the previous years but it's your money. A friend in the are just got a 69 Dart 340 swinger in F3. Sweet car and goes like stink.

[tan top]

Ok, I really like that yellow one I posted earlier BUT perhaps you should buy this one before I convince myself that I need it!

72 Dodge Dart with big block and TKO 600 5 speed - $15500 (LaGrange)

Or this one but it's a LOT nicer, rarer, and more expensive:
1968 Dodge Dart GTS - $24900 (Sidney)

Troy

they look good , from the pictures

[tan top]

 

[twodko]

I've been educating myself on MOPAR small blocks lately.
I will quite likely roll to Sacramento tomorrow to eyeball a 1970 Dart Swinger.
I finally got hold of the seller today to get more information about the car.
The car was an original 318 car, the owner before him put in a 360 crate w/727.
It's still the original column shift. I didn't know 318, 340 & 360 mills were
all the same block. The guy said it was a straight forward drop-in crate motor
even using the same motor mounts. True?
What automatic would a stock 318 Dart have come with? With the current 727
transmission would this have required a different crossmember or modifications
to the frame?

Other tidbits of intell are that the car has its original polyglass spare tire and
Jack. I'm stoked about that. All lights, gauges, windows etc work. OEM radio has
been replaced. Original dash pad was replaced with an aftermarket one.
He didn't know if the heater worked because it was bypassed.
Rebuilding another heater box is a PITA so that's a concern.

More to come..........

[ProDartGTS]

I've been educating myself on MOPAR small blocks lately.
I will quite likely roll to Sacramento tomorrow to eyeball a 1970 Dart Swinger.
I finally got hold of the seller today to get more information about the car.
The car was an original 318 car, the owner before him put in a 360 crate w/727.
It's still the original column shift. I didn't know 318, 340 & 360 mills were
all the same block. The guy said it was a straight forward drop-in crate motor
even using the same motor mounts. True?
What automatic would a stock 318 Dart have come with? With the current 727
transmission would this have required a different crossmember or modifications
to the frame?

Other tidbits of intell are that the car has its original polyglass spare tire and
Jack. I'm stoked about that. All lights, gauges, windows etc work. OEM radio has
been replaced. Original dash pad was replaced with an aftermarket one.
He didn't know if the heater worked because it was bypassed.
Rebuilding another heater box is a PITA so that's a concern.

More to come..........

I'm a bit rusty on my knowledge here, just due to age,  but I believe the car could have come with either trans, 904 or 727.  As far as the crossmember I think they are the same.  No frame mods required. 

[twenty mike mike]

Some 904 & 727 info.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?17287-Your-Guide-to-the-727-904-transmission

318s would normally have come with a 904. I read somewhere that some came with 727s, but I can't imagine why, unless the line ran out of 904s and they just happened to have a bunch of 727s sitting around.

A lot of people think "TorqueFlite" means just the 727, but the 904 is a TF, too.

A 360 swap could have included a 727, since most came with them. You can check by looking at the pan design as shown in the link.

[68X426]

I didn't know 318, 340 & 360 mills were
all the same block. The guy said it was a straight forward drop-in crate motor
even using the same motor mounts. True?

True, same mounts due to same dimensions.

Don't forget the sad little 273, same small block.  It was a great motor, earlier bro to the 318.  A hot 273 in the first Barracudas was a sweet ride.

Nice story here - http://www.allpar.com/mopar/318.html - on the LA engine series, which lives on in the Viper 10s.

Hope the Dart works out for you.

[Old Moparz]

If it helps, my 1971 Scamp is an original 318 car that has the 904 trans & came with the tiny, 7-1/4" rear. I kept the 904 in it, had it rebuilt at about 95,000 miles, but have an A-Body 8-3/4" rear now. (Scamps & Darts are basically the same car.) This small rear was mostly for 6 cylinder cars, but I guess if it wasn't a performance car they also got them. I bring this up because if you are looking at a car with a crate motor that was not originally a Swinger 340, then it wasn't considered a performance car & may still need upgrades. I've had my Scamp since 1988 & got it with the original 42,000 miles. Other than the passenger fender having some minor collision repairs before I got it, the car was mostly original. (Still has the original vinyl roof.)

There are some quirks about the older A-Body cars that can be a pain in the neck to discover, like the 4" bolt pattern for the lug studs. If the car you look at still has the 4" pattern there will not be too many wheel choices. What I remember fitting are the stock steel wheels, 14"x 5" Rally wheels, SS Cragars & slotted mags if you can find them. The other issue is the brakes for the 4" pattern. There are no companies manufacturing the rear drums & they haven't been made now for several years. I spotted 2 on ebay that are NOS & have a buy it now of $300 each. The front drums are still available but if you have discs those parts are tough to come by & expensive. I just saw a crusty, used set up somewhere for $500. If someone converted to the larger 4-1/2" pattern, you'll be fine.

Found an old photo of my Scamp where you can see the mismatched paint on the passenger fender. 

[Troy]

I've been educating myself on MOPAR small blocks lately.
I will quite likely roll to Sacramento tomorrow to eyeball a 1970 Dart Swinger.
I finally got hold of the seller today to get more information about the car.
The car was an original 318 car, the owner before him put in a 360 crate w/727.
It's still the original column shift. I didn't know 318, 340 & 360 mills were
all the same block. The guy said it was a straight forward drop-in crate motor
even using the same motor mounts. True?
What automatic would a stock 318 Dart have come with? With the current 727
transmission would this have required a different crossmember or modifications
to the frame?

Other tidbits of intell are that the car has its original polyglass spare tire and
Jack. I'm stoked about that. All lights, gauges, windows etc work. OEM radio has
been replaced. Original dash pad was replaced with an aftermarket one.
He didn't know if the heater worked because it was bypassed.
Rebuilding another heater box is a PITA so that's a concern.

More to come..........

There really isn't much different in the LA engines externally - even all the way through 2002 with the Magnum versions. The car likely came with a 904 originally. I believe that only 340s got the 727. The trans cross member is the same but the mount may be different (904 is shorter but the mount might be farther back already). I've only had 2 and I ditched them relatively quickly. The 360 crates seem to have a good reputation and the 727 will hold up much better behind it than the 904. Sounds like a good upgrade.

Do you need a heater where you live? I drove my 68 Charger through 3 Ohio winters in high school without a heater at all. Headers and limited insulation helped!

Troy

[twodko]

Thanks for that info Troy. Unexpectedly a 1969 Dart GTS had come up
for sale. I've spoken with the owner this morning and he made all the right
noises when responding to my many questions. The car really sounds like its
worth eyeballing even though it's a 2 ½ hour drive. I'm fairly confident that
my back has healed enough so I can make a 5 hour found trip.
I've already contacted the guy in Sacramento telling him I'm not
coming today to scope out his '70 Swinger.

I've made an appointment with the guy to look at the car tomorrow.
Only problem is my buddy who was supposed to go with me can't
make it now. I have a couple car buddies with car trailers but I have
no idea whether my '09 ½ ton Ram with the tow package could handle
trailering a car. He says it's a real GTS and is firm at $10k. I think it would be
a mistake not to look at the car.

One thing concerning me is that he told me the car is missing its VIN
fender tag. He says the VIN number is on the dash though.
Are VIN plates being reproduced? What would indicate a genuine GTS
on the dash board VIN plate?

[Troy]

Why is a GTS only $10k? Project? And, for me, I'd drive it home - no need for a trailer! A 2009 1500 should have no problem towing a Dart. Just like a Charger, the dash VIN is the important identification. The fender tag just breaks down the options but is NOT a legal piece of identification. VIN number should start with "LS", then likely "23" (body style), then "P" for 340 (or "H" for 383 or "M" for 440) engine, then "9" for 1969 model year. The next letter is the manufacturing plant and the final 6 are the production numbers. If the second letter is "H", "L", or "P" then it's not a GTS.  The engine and transmission should have the VIN stamped on them as well (if it's numbers matching). The reason I question the price is that a 69 Dart GTS should be in the 20k range if it's nice. More for a 4-speed and way more if it's a 383 or 440.

How much for the latest 70 Swinger with the 360?

Troy

[twodko]

Hi Troy,

Well, I've since confirmed my Ram will tow a trailered Dart no problem.
I've also found out what to look for on the dash VIN exactly as you've
described. I'm going to call the guy this evening and ask him to read
me the VIN plate and ask why he's selling it. When I called him to set up
tomorrow's look see I also asked him if it's a clone, he says it's the real deal.
New upholstery on the bucket seats and back seats, new carpet and he says
the console is in great shape. He says the heater works but is bypassed because
the core leaks.......says he has a new core for it. No jack or spare tire.

The VIN should also be stamped on the radiator support and trunk lid
rim I'm told. It would be nice if the motor/tranny were numbers matching
but as long as it's a genuine GTS I don't care if it has a NOM. This will be a fun
"Whenever" driver I don't have to be as concerned with out on the roads like I am with my Charger.

The first thing that raised a caution flag for me was the $10k price too because a real deal GTS
should go for much more as you mentioned. The guy lives in Salinas, Ca. but his door
shop is in Gilroy, Ca.......a good 30+ minute drive and he's driving the car to his shop
so I can see it.......a good sign. It's a 340/727 car which tracks with what a GTS came with in '69.

I'll see what he has to say tonight.

Tom

[twodko]

The guy with the 1970 Dart Swinger 360/727 wants $13,500
I'd bring $11k. If I wanted the car I'd wave $10k at him and
be prepared to offer $11k but no more.

[ProDartGTS]

Tom, you are correct in that the vin is in the trunk seal lip unfortunately it's under the seal and most owners grown on you ripping out the seal to see it.

I believe there is also a stamping on the core support. 

Yes 340 727 is obviously what a gts had for a driveline most often. It's too bad the fender tag is missing. There's not much else to indicate that it's a GTS.  The guys over on the GTS registry are a great help.  You might even come across a photo or two of a certain prostreet GTS  ;-)

[twenty mike mike]

I see an ad for a blue one with a white tail stripe for $9800 in the correct area.

It doesn't look like a factory blue, but the interior is correct, and looks in good shape. Assuming that is the original shifter handle, it's an early build.

The only thing I can see that's missing is the sill molding (only one side showing), which were standard for GTSs. Perhaps it was removed for the paint job.

Unless it's a bucket of rust, that's a screaming deal for a GTS.

[twodko]

That was the one. It's gone........the owner got a better offer than my max budget. 

[68X426]

Monday, September 29th.  Tom, is there a Dart in your garage yet?

[twodko]

Im working it brother. Doing a recon today, see
my post in General Car Discussion under 360.