Reward for my VIN, fender tag, and title

[Dreamcar]

Does anybody feel as though people become a member on DC.com and their first post starts a thread like this one to raise a bunch of eyebrows then disappears.  Makes me wonder if the OP actually has the car he is claiming to own or just wanted to stir up the minds of the Charger community. 

Did you read the thread ? He's been back . I do wish he'd would show us some recent pics though.

[Moparpoolman]

I did read this thread in it's entirety and have also noticed the only pictures we have seen are other peoples pics from other sources like ebay, I think everyone would like to see a current pic from the OP.

[68X426]

Where's the FBI report? 

[TUFCAT]

There was a recent article on this months MUSCLE CAR REVIEW page 15, October issue.

A '64 Ford Galaxy 427 was sold at auction with paperwork being an authentic R-code....a rare piece of Ford racing history.

After a series of professional inspections, it was determined to be a fake. The current owner got an attorney specializing in VIN fraud and tracked down several owners through title searches.  Finally they locked onto the owner who bought it with an original "P" engine code on the title. Every title thereafter had the "R-code" in the title,  Essentially all the subsequent owners got screwed into paying huge money for a fake car.

Its an interesting read on who can collect damages.

EACH person can sue each subsequent owner/seller for damages in this case....all the way down the line until it finally reaches the person who actually "did it". Yep, that's right folks, you may be an innocent victim and still be sued for fraud.  

[Ghoste]

He's not a villain and he's not a troll.  He's just a guy who would like to, if possible, reunite a car with it's tags and if he can't he's still into the car.

[familymopar]

 

[TUFCAT]

Guys think about it this way, ....If somehow down the line a certain Black 1968 Hemi Charger is located wearing those tags, and fraud can be proven in court ...then our OP is a hero for calling him out - right?

That would be some justice!  

[familymopar]

Again, 

[hemi-hampton]

If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON.

[Tilar]

I would think so.

[familymopar]

I think it depends on how he bought it.  If he bought the title, vin, etc. from the guys whose name was on the title, then yes.  I would say that could definitely happen.  If he bought it from anyone else then it is a big mess and I think the argument is between OP and last title holder.  Guy who bought the title may have a claim against guy who sold it to him just as if OP loses car to the guy who bought the title, OP would have a claim against the guy who sold him the car (assuming it hasn't been too long by that time).

My money is on the guy who bought the title did not buy it from the title holder in which case it is a mess but OP is in a better position.

[6bblgt]

If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON.

It would be a BAD move if the person in possession of the title & tags pictured above were to start legal proceedings toward obtaining the remains of the original body as they knowingly purchased title & tags without the body and to suggest otherwise, in court, would be perjury.

[TUFCAT]

It would be interesting to know what year the ebay auction happened.  If less than a year, its likely no car was built around those tags yet....and a search would turn up nothing.  Assuming its longer and rebody is already in the works, it could still take many months or even years for the car to wear that VIN...and become searchable on a database.

[indreams84]

The OP has not added any further info...makes one wonder if he just was interested in stirring the pot or is sitting back 

[Dreamcar]

If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON.

It would be a BAD move if the person in possession of the title & tags pictured above were to start legal proceedings toward obtaining the remains of the original body as they knowingly purchased title & tags without the body and to suggest otherwise, in court, would be perjury.

 Having an old car with no title or vin is not illegal if its not on the road. Removing a vin and slapping it on a completly different car is.

[hemi-hampton]

If the guy that bought the Vin & Title still has it in a envelope, couldn't he sue or take to court the original poster or current person in possession of car (car body, race car, trunk lid Vin # or whatever he has or posses) & have car returned to Title owner? LEON.

It would be a BAD move if the person in possession of the title & tags pictured above were to start legal proceedings toward obtaining the remains of the original body as they knowingly purchased title & tags without the body and to suggest otherwise, in court, would be perjury.

Maybe guy that purchased Title & Vin tag# was lied too & told the car body did not exist any longer as it was scraped? when in reality it never was? Then what happens   LEON.

[TUFCAT]

Maybe guy that purchased Title & Vin tag# was lied too & told the car body did not exist any longer as it was scraped? when in reality it never was? Then what happens   LEON.

I'm convinced that's what happened here Leon. 

[Moparpoolman]

Still not certain the tags got sold alone on eBay or with the car. all I have is a photo of the items from an eBay auction. Tags should have never left the car is all I'm saying.
  Thanks for the help guys

I was talking to a friend that saved the info from the ebay ad that ran about 2003, at that time the ad was for the Car and VIN tags all together as a package with a title but the tags were displayed off the car laying on top of the title.  The pics that are posted in this thread are from that ebay ad that was for the car, title and tags together.  So there was no wrong doing unless there was a second ebay auction later in time selling only the tags.
Typars, When and how did you get this car?  From a friend? From a scrap yard?  Ebay? Craigslist? and what paperwork did you get with it? Bill of sale with no vin? 

[6bblgt]

Pictures of the cut up racecar & the question "How can I figure out what this car WAS based on the body numbers?" was asked on Moparts by a "friend" of the current owner a few months ago (core support & trunk rail numbers intact).
I put 2 & 2 together on Moparts.
The best guess "eBay" pics are date "stamped" 12/17/03 (picturetrail watermark icon in lower right) - I don't believe this is accurate, I have a dead hard drive with lots of "lost" pics from this era.
I decoded the fender tag (for my own amusement) 7/25/09 while sorting pics on my computer, but probably close to the time frame when the pics were "I ASSUME" on eBay.
I have "copies" of the pics dated 4/20/11 & 12/15/11 (excessive back-ups, due to lost info paranoia)  

The "eBay" pics of the fender & VIN tags also showed a pic of the trunk rail number.  

Not everyone lives on Dodge-Charger & has the tools to post pics, just food for thought!  

[6bblgt]

& if the eBay auction was 2003 - someone may have sent me some of the tags/title/trunk rail pics around '09. 

I didn't see any pics of the body until a few months ago on Moparts.

[Moparpoolman]

The best guess "eBay" pics are date "stamped" 12/17/03 (picturetrail watermark icon in lower right) - I don't believe this is accurate,

I think 2003 is correct from what I found

[Moparpoolman]

From my earlier post: I was talking to a friend that saved the info from the ebay ad that ran about 2003, at that time the ad was for the Car and VIN tags all together as a package with a title but the tags were displayed off the car laying on top of the title.  The pics that are posted in this thread are from that ebay ad that was for the car, title and tags together.  So there was no wrong doing unless there was a second ebay auction later in time selling only the tags.

[TUFCAT]

Let's see if Shaggy and Scooby got this right....  

The first transaction was for the title, tags, VIN plate and body. The car was sold as a package deal with its complete set of original documentation (as it should be)... in 2003 off ebay.

Then later....the owner decides to liquidate the body from the original ebay package deal. Typars comes on the scene to buy the body around 2009 or later -  sans documentation because Typars already said he bought car without any original docs. Do we assume he bought it from the guy who had them...but never told him?

Pass me a Scooby Snack!  

[ws23rt]

I've been following this along and tend to think the holder of the "documentation" has the ""car"".  It's hard to agree to this

This is a good case for documentation to be proper.

However my instinct still tells me when this situation played out the players new they were getting near the edge of ethical.

In this particular case because it's a hemi car is the reason we are even talking about it.  Since that is a fact-- originality and documents are key to future additional value.  Also in this case if the pieces of metal we saw in the pictures belonged to the vin tag and title (tough to prove) and were to be reunited into a finished car it would rank IMO rather low in value as a collectible. [non original engine built from frame restored hemi car].

If I was a buyer and looking at buying/investing in a rare car and learned that I was buying a vin tag with wheels I would pass or take it as a fun car to drive the crap out of.  (little real historical value to me).

It's true that as time passes and the current collectors pass on the future value of the rare cars will become more confined to good complete examples.

I say lets not get caught up in zombie cars now because that is speculation for another time to come.

[TUFCAT]

This is a good case for documentation to be proper......It's true that as time passes and the current collectors pass on the future value of the rare cars will become more confined to good complete examples.

Another reason to put an end to fake broadcast sheets, VIN tags, Fender tags, fake titles, YOU NAME IT!

There's no good reason for any of this shit to look so damn good.  It can (and will) fake people....even some experts.  I stand firmly that any copies, knock-offs, novelties, reproductions, whatever the hell they're called be made with a logo to represent them as what they are - a duplication of the original.