Should Anti-Seize Or Lubricant Be Used On Lug Nuts?

[A383Wing]

I will stick with my opinion that threads that are intended to be used over and over need to be protected from wear.

I have always used some sort of lube on the thread studs...one time I didn't and the lug nut seized on the stud...had to use impact to break lug stud and replace

[ws23rt]

There would be a very good reason to not use a lubricant on the threads if recommended not too.  That means the recommended torque specs from the bolt manufacturers does not consider the decreased coefficient of frictiion from lubrication and the increased stretch and stress in the bolt.  By adding lubrication you are potentially decreasing the life of the stud and making a failure more likely. 

Adding lubrication to a thread will not reduce the life of the stud. 
If one pulls the stud passed its yield point than the life of the stud will be shortened --oops--

A stud needs to be pulled about 75% of it's yield for most applications.  (Yield is the point where the stud gets longer without increase torque).  Btw if the stud is pulling apart (yield) it is coming apart.

Adding lubrication to the threads will reduce the torque required to reach the studs proper stretch. Generally 75% of the yield point for a given fastner.

[ws23rt]

I will stick with my opinion that threads that are intended to be used over and over need to be protected from wear.

I have always used some sort of lube on the thread studs...one time I didn't and the lug nut seized on the stud...had to use impact to break lug stud and replace

I have been there myself.  I had a nut sieze on the stud on the way off to the point that the press fit of the stud came loose.

So now what do we do?---Had to cut the nut and stud off without causing damage to the rim. ( Not easy) And the press fit bore on the axial was toast.

The stuff is called anti sieze for a reason.

[tan top]

 long time a go ( 25 plus years ago ) , I read or was told , I forget !!  never to put anti seize or any lube or  on  the wheel studs or lug nuts , but  !  on the charger when I first got it , i did , put anti seize /copper grease on each stud , but wiped it mostly off  , & been like that ever since , done the same  putting it back after the resto too ,  the studs are not smothered in the stuff , by the time I wiped most off ! its just a ever so thin covering in the grooves of the thread .  
also I always use torque wrench  ,  plus use antiseize grease on hub centre ring to wheel centre , & back of wheel mounting face , especially on aluminum wheels  

[dyslexic teddybear]

For 30+ years

Anti-seize or grease.

Drive a bit and recheck torque.

DRW.....recheck multiple times.

Doesn't take long to recheck torque.......you may get a surprise .....an may well prevent a BIG surprise.

[John_Kunkel]

That's another issue, how do you "recheck" torque? Use the same wrench setting and see if it moves?

If you don't loosen each nut before retorqueing you haven't "checked" anything.
 

[dyslexic teddybear]

Interesting point.

Yes, there would be a "proper" technique.

Personally use the "see if it moves at the right torque" method. Believe it to be better then "tighten once and forget it". Measuring the bolt/stud stretch seems overkill.

Most times, I will see a small amount of movement on a couple of nuts out of 20. If any move much, you got a warning to check further. Worth the time to prevent  

This likely comes from my heavy equipment experience. Big bolts/nuts.....multiple checks, when you stop getting movement, it's likely good. I realize that isn't precision....but when you are using a 2 1/2" socket and a 4 foot breaker bar........

[ACUDANUT]

Always and often recheck the lug nuts to make sure they have not become loose.  Mine came loose after a couple hundred miles. Damn near lost a wheel.

[rt green]

use anything on lug nuts?  the correct answer is no. maybe to get them off, but once they are tight you don't want them to come loose. NEVER use anything on lug nuts. put them on dry.

[MaximRecoil]

use anything on lug nuts?  the correct answer is no. maybe to get them off, but once they are tight you don't want them to come loose. NEVER use anything on lug nuts. put them on dry.

I know that intuition tends to support the idea that lubricated threads are more likely to come loose, but that's not actually how it works. First, spring tension from bolt and nut stretch is the primary force which keeps threaded fasteners tight after being torqued properly. If it were friction alone that kept them from loosening, you wouldn't have to tighten them beyond the point that there is no play in the wheel.

Second, when the nut is torqued properly, practically all of the lubricant on all of the thread-to-thread contact points is displaced, meaning there isn't much difference in the level of friction between threads compared to dry threads once the nut is tight. That extremely thin film of lubricant that is left behind after the rest has been displaced is not enough to largely reduce friction at the thread-to-thread contact points, but it is enough to prevent or reduce corrosion and other chemical reactions that can cause two pieces of metal to become somewhat bonded, and to prevent or reduce galling as you approach the desired torque.

This is why lubricated threads are inherently better than dry threads from a functional perspective, i.e., all advantages and no disadvantages. The only thing you have to consider is that torque specifications are different for lubricated threads than they are for dry threads (lubricated thread torque specifications are generally about 75% of the dry thread torque specification).

[ACUDANUT]

On my exposed lug nuts and studs (like my truck) I always keep grease on the threads, to keep them from rusting away.

[ws23rt]

What I have gathered from this thread is that those that have been working on older cars for a long time tend to want to preserve what they have. That is to keep it in working order for a long time.

The issue of lug thread life span is not what one generally thinks of when considering whether or not the wheel will fall off. And an experience with loose lug nuts could very well make one err on the side that tight dry threads are better for safety and long life. The idea that slick threads will allow the nuts to spin off is hard to dismiss from our mind even if it is not the case.

I have had dry stuck lug nuts that are at full recommended torque (for dry threads) and are not holding the wheel on as they should. In this case it has allowed the wheel to move around the studs making all the holes oversize and making the wheel toast. The wheel could also have fractured from the flexing and failed completely with all the nuts in place.

For the best piece of mind one needs to have good threads in the shape they are made and the proper torque.

Just a thought for those that fear lugs spinning off.  They do make nylock type nuts as well as interupted thread nuts for that purpose but Iv'e not seen them used for lug nuts

What we need is the wheel properly clamped on the axial or drum.  That can be done with new dry threads and the correct torque for that.  Or lubricated threads with the correct torque for that case.

The way metal moves around from stresses and heat cycles calls for periodic checking of the proper torque.  

IMO both dry and lubricated threads can get the job done but lubricated threads will last much longer.  

As some have said they have been using lube on the threads for many years as have I and the 40+ year old threads are holding up just fine.

[dual fours]

A little drop of oil on all my vehicle's clean studs keeps things working, contrary to what I had been told 39 years ago, "Do not oil the studs".
That coming from the folks that use impact wrenches to loosen / tighten the lugs. It's better to feel your nuts till they are tight. Did you ever feel that "chatter" in the wrench when you are tightening your nuts, it doesn't feel good, it can't be good, dry nut syndrome.  I have never had a issue of loose lugs in racing (hard surface) or 4x4 off road.  A good reason to not lube the studs / lugs would be if you get too much lube and it can migrates / centrifugal force to the brake surface.
If it needs to moves while against something, oil or grease it! Something's are to be excluded.

[Old Moparz]

Well....Seems that the consensus is to lube your nuts because dry humping causes chaffing. 

[Ghoste]

And we should have all learned that lesson as teens.

[PrisonHack]

 Ive always just sprayed a little WD-40 on the threads, but I have never actually checked the torque. I just hand tighten with a 4 way till it feels (bout right)

[John_Kunkel]

Not exactly the same issue but there's a consistent debate on the Forward Look forums about lubing the taper on the tapered axle shafts "to make the drums easier to remove" (tapers always go together dry) and invariably there are a bunch who state "I been lubing tapers for XX years and never had a problem".

Classic example of doing it wrong and getting away with it versus doing it right....ditto for the lug threads.

[Ghoste]

Not unlike the aeronautic engineers who can PROVE it is impossible for the bumblebee to fly?

[Indygenerallee]

Not unlike the aeronautic engineers who can PROVE it is impossible for the bumblebee to fly?

Exactly!! And your not supposed to use compression fittings on brake lines but its standard practice in every shop I have ever stepped foot in. I have used anti-seize on lug studs for over 17 years and never have had one come back because of a "wheel nut backing off" and I use torque sticks as well.

[ws23rt]

It's true that both dry and lubricated threads will get the job done. The debate comes from whether one is right or wrong.

Right and wrong are the terms that drive the debate. Even better and best will keep the discussion going.

When something is reccomended it is usually for a particular reason but that does not mean that an alternative cannot give as good results.

As for tapers and whether or not they should be lubricated.  They are rather different than threads. Threads require sliding movement to work and tapers are ment to grip from the friction surface. (Are not ment to be twisted but compressed). In this case friction is our friend.---Oh OH-- did I just help add the taper debate to this thread?  Sorry

[dual fours]

Not unlike the aeronautic engineers who can PROVE it is impossible for the bumblebee to fly?

Exactly!! And your not supposed to use compression fittings on brake lines but its standard practice in every shop I have ever stepped foot in. I have used anti-seize on lug studs for over 17 years and never have had one come back because of a "wheel nut backing off" and I use torque sticks as well.

What , compression fittings on brake lines, the ones with compression nuts and rings, and there not using double flared ends?
Oh, and I would never lube a tapered hub and axle, that would definitely be a no no and spin loose.
I understand those against lubing the lugs/studs main concern is with over stressing the studs/and attached components because of the lube.
I'll stick with lube and a four way lug wench.
There's more issues here then just the lugs/studs, as in material and construction of wheels, age of components, stress level being used at.
So your never get a 99% on one side or another. JMO

I see I was a little slow hitting the save button .

[John_Kunkel]

As for tapers and whether or not they should be lubricated.  They are rather different than threads.

I know, I merely added that to illustrate the value (or not) of "I been doin' it that way for XX years and never had a problem". (Anecdotal experience versus empirical evidence)

[Ghoste]

In this instance, how is anecdotal evidence different from empirical?

[Old Moparz]

This thread is still thriving?  

Wow.....I didn't realize there were Democratic & Republican nuts.  

[ws23rt]

This thread is still thriving?  

Wow.....I didn't realize there were Democratic & Republican nuts.  

This thread is sure to thrive with the introduction of politics (until it is closed because of it).

A liberal would tend to go all natural---dry threads--  If they were to use lube it would be a plant based organic type.

A conservative that chose to use dry threads would be fine with replacing the lugs as needed.  (it would create more jobs)  If they were to use lube it would be the good stuff where ever it came from. 

We are all a bit nuts