Just a Mild Rant on Refinancing

[Old Moparz]

Just venting a little, but maybe it will save someone else from getting a headache.  

My mortgage was sold years ago to citibank, who sends me overnight UPS & FedEx envelopes regularly with letters asking me to refinance with them at no cost. I lost count of how many I have gotten these things, probably well over a dozen, but I toss them into the recycle bin because the rate they offer is not so great. A couple of weeks ago I got another overnight letter & almost tossed it but decided to take a peek at it. This was the first time the rate was competitive so I gave them a call to ask a few questions.

The person I spoke to was very nice & appeared competent. He answered everything & even gave me a better rate while I was on the phone so I decided to proceed. There was no reason not to since I was knocking 2 years off the term, saving close to $100 per month & there were absolutely no closing costs or any type of fee for me to pay. A couple of days later I get a call from another person who is from the lawyer's office handling the closing. They said they were verifying some info & will mail me a form to sign.

The next day someone else from citibank called me & asked if I had heard from the lawyer. They added that they would also be mailing me more info & some papers to fill out. So far it seemed to be very efficient & not what I expected so I was content. I usually have no faith in banks or anyone associated with closings like title companies & other services because I've had to babysit several in the past & witness large scale incompetence first hand.

Was I disappointed in their efficiency? No, but I still expected problems.  

So like Murphy's Law states, "When everything looks to be going your way, don't worry, you'll get over it." And sure enough, citibank followed through & did not disappoint. I get the letter from the lawyer that states I will need title insurance & that I will be responsible for the cost. This ran $1500 the last time so I was annoyed. I contacted the person at citibank & I am told not to worry about those fees, they will pay it. (Yeah, right.....That's why I sign the form agreeing to pay it?) Next thing I get is the info & forms from citibank with the loan amount & length of time. They got the length of time right knocking 2 years off, but the loan amount is $1600 higher than when I first called.

Before I ever signed a single document the no cost refinancing is going to cost me about $3100. I've sent 3 emails & made a call, but so far have not gotten a reply since last Friday. When & if I hear back from them I plan to tell citibank to go f**k themselves. If anyone else is planning a refinance or even their first mortgage, read everything & scrutinize it or you're going to need a steel plate to drop down the back of your pants to protect yourself.  

[RECHRGD]

I paid off our home several years ago.  After waiting patiently for my deed for over a month, I called the bank that our loan was through.  I was told that my mortgage had been sold to several different entities over the years and that they had no records.  Umm, you have been taking my checks all these years, but you have no records of the mortgage?  They were clueless and unconcerned. Long story short, I had to hire a lawyer to get it all sorted out and finally get a deed to my property.  I hate banks.  In your case it sounds like Citibank is just pulling scam.

[Old Moparz]

It could very well be a scam that has that legal loophole built in. The one where they say, "Oh we're sorry, that was simply an oversight & will be corrected."    If you don't look at the wording, miss it & sign, you're obligated to pay it & will never get it back later.

The original mortgage was done through another bank in 1989 that hired the title insurance company. The title company decided on the 88th day of the 90 day lock in, that they couldn't insure the house. They never told us & we almost missed the 90 days & would have lost the application fee, the lower rate we were locked in on & pay again to reapply. I kept calling the bank to get the closing date & was either ignored or told not to worry. Turns out that the title company decided there was a road going through the property & that it may have an easement that they didn't have record of. The "professional" who went to the house went to the wrong house. This a-hole charged $1500 for his services.

When we refinanced for a lower rate years later, a different bank hired the same title company. This time they determined they couldn't issue insurance because the deck on the house did not have a C.O. from the town. This was the same deck that was on the house since 1986 that they had seen when they were there in 1989. They argued to no end until I did the legwork & produced some sketches that were used by the building inspector to approve the original construction in 1986 showing the deck. In order to make sure the closing would go smoothly I asked them if the had the C.O. for the garage. They said, "What garage?"    I said, "Was the sun creating a glare the day your inspector was there since they couldn't see the 36 foot wide 2-1/2 story building that's 15 feet away from the house?"

Another $1500 or more for incompetence spent. 

[A383Wing]

we got "Bank of America"...they are the worst

[twodko]

Among the few things I truly HATE are banks, lawyers, politicians and child molesters.

Kill them all.        OK, I feel much better now.

[Cooter]

I got calls about refinancing my loan for the first 2 years. Finally, I call em up and give the guy a chance to make a little commission.
I told him to gimme the figures and we'd talk. Long  story short, never called me back and when I called the guy personally, he tells me he can't help me. WTF? you been worrying me for over two years?
They never bothered to check to see if I owed more than the refinance would allow then.

Just found out NONE of those "no closing costs" refinance deals work out where you pay nothing.
it's a sales tactic that borderline on fraud imo. Sure, you might save $100.00 month, but if they tack on $4k to the back end of your loan, what's the point.

[HANDM]

Get offers all the damn time and yes, the rates are better and the payments lower and there is no way in hell I am going through that again. When we sell our house, we will be able to buy or build another with no stinking mortgage.

Originally the mortgage was with countrywide then bought by bank of america and then sold to green tree, whoever the hell that is.

[sanders7981]

I am with you... I probably get about three phone calls a day about refinancing my VA loan, not to mention all the junk mail I get offering lower rates! 

[dual fours]

Among the few things I truly HATE are banks, lawyers, politicians and child molesters.

Kill them all.        OK, I feel much better now.

All of the above seem to have ya by the (00)'s. Need banks, they give me money.
                                                                     Need lawyers, keeps me out of jail.
                                                                     Need politicians, sorry can't think of anything.
                                                                     Child molesters, as Josey Wales says "Buzzard's gotta eat same as worms."

                                                 

[BrianShaughnessy]

Paid off my house last year.        It's not the greatest house... far from it.   But unless I'm forced to move in the future for a different line of work or retirement I'm never gonna deal with real estate for the forseeable future.

Normally I have a good relationship with my credit union where the mortgage was from but they made it such a PITA that it took the joy out of it.  I couldn't just pay the thing off online and get a paid off statement... noooooooooooo.    They make you go in and make the last payment and then there's a fee to the county and blah blah blah.   I finally did get my payoff paperwork months later.    It just didn't make the mental picture of burning a mortgage come true that I was hoping from old movies.

Anyway what $$$ I saved I have to look after to make sure I keep current for the taxes that I pay myself now.   

I had a previous mortgage with a 'bank'.   Bank is a 4 letter word.   I'll stick with my CU. 

[Patronus]

When we all decide to get the pitchforks and torches out again I know where I'll be going.
On a side note, why don't you send them an invoice for your time? Ya never know, idiots do stupid stuff..

[nh_mopar_fan]

i love my credit union. 

[myk]

Among the few things I truly HATE are banks, lawyers, politicians and child molesters.

Kill them all.        OK, I feel much better now.

Don't forget thieves, although one could argue that the aforementioned are consequently thieves anyway.

In any case, I like my credit union as well...

[Silver R/T]

I get these refinancing letters every week, they sure fill up my recycling bin fast. You know if you really want to pay off your house faster just pay a bit more on your mortgage every month and you'll pay off your 30 year mortgage in 15 years or less.

[Mopar Nut]

i love my credit union. 

Me too, my credit union shave five years off reducing my loan to fifteen years and saved $300.00 a month to boot.

p/s I saved all that in fifteen minutes 

[Lord Warlock]

Citibank is not the best place to bank with even in the best of times, especially not if you need customer service.  I used to work for AT&T Universal Card (a credit card company) Citi bought us out after a strong 9 year run, I quit six months after Citi took over, within a year they had eliminated our Credit Department, Customer Service and Risk control areas, all of which had earned top ratings in the industry for three years running.  Glad I left, will never go back.  I do still have a credit card with them, but only because I get it for free with no fees.  A benefit promised by AT&T when we first offered it. 

Now, to address mortgage companies...a few years back I took a job at JPMorgan Chase mortgage, the wife worked at Washington Mutual, during the industry upheaval in 2008, WAMU got taken over by the government and was given to Chase who took it over...bastards should have sold out to us when we offered to do so a year earlier...a year later we got it all for free...or so we thought...a few years later, the government decided to fine US for what WAMU had been doing with the subprime market...punish us after you closed them down and forced them into our company which was the strongest in the industry at the time.  Excessive government involvement made me irritable and I left there a couple years ago.  Wife still works there,  occasionally if we need to refinance, we can get a cheap refinance supposedly with no fees or costs (its all bullsh*t) there are ALWAYS fees and costs, and they like to bundle them up with the loan and tack them onto the back end of the loan. 

The latest situation is what gripes me the most.  Occasionally the wife likes to see what the current interest rates are for mortgages outside of our own company, instead of just reading the weekly newspaper that has them printed, she looked online instead, in the process she got to a step that started asking for too much personal data for a simple interest rate quote.  She backed out of it, but it was too late, for the next month we have been swamped by daily friggin phone solicitations for a refinance, and the bastards call at 8am in the morning, before my alarm even goes off.  Pisses me off to get woken up by a phone call for a mortgage company trying to sell us a refinance.  Personally I see no reason to refinance for any reason given the fact that we have less than 7 years left on the loan, and the interest rate is less than 5%.  Sure we have great credit-we have to as we both work in the banking industry from time to time, we also have lots of built up equity seeing as we are in the last chunk of the loan.  I'm sure we could easily save 300 to 500 a month if we refi'd again, but we'd end up doubling the loan term to 15 years again, or possibly 10 year term.  Could save 1200 to 1500 a month if we went to a 30 year, but I really really want to pay this bitch off sooner and not later. 

Four months since we looked at the interest rates online, and we still get no less than 3 calls a week, 20 emails or more trying to sell us a loan we never wanted or even asked for.  Wish we could just borrow money from one place, and that place would keep the paper for the entire term of the loan, I prefer to deal with one company only.  I've probably had a dozen lenders service our loan in 25 years, maybe two dozen.  Sorely tempted to go to USAA and deal with them, at least I'm pretty sure they'd keep it in one place, and at least i trust them to screw it up. 

[Old Moparz]

Lord Warlock, that's an interesting take on citibank, & you're definitely right about poor customer service. They took almost 2 full weeks to get back to me after I sent 3 emails over that time period & left one phone message. When I got en email from the person I was in contact, they said they would bring up my issue (just one of the two) to someone in another department. But meanwhile, go ahead & sign the papers & return them. 

I emailed back & said I am no longer interested in refinancing with citibank, I am done.   

There are two credit unions local to me & two smaller banks that have been around forever that I'll contact. The rates are about half of what my current one is so I'll do something to roll the mortgage over into a shorter term & save a few bucks.

Thanks for the replies, it helped confirm this deal was a joke.