440 with 1000-1200 stall converter

[shone190]

Hi guys,

   I was wondering what can I loose/get with 1000-1200rpm stall converter on my 440 Charger with A727?

Right now, the car have 2400 stall converter and there is to much slippage in everyday city drive I mostly used the car. As I understood, stall speed only define when (RPM) will tranny completely engage with engine through torque converter. So, if I never need to start with brake pedal pressed to raise RPM or don't use the car as a race car, is 1000-1200rpm stall converter right choice for me?

Also, it sounds logical that with lower stall speed, I'll get better MPG in city, or I am wrong?

Will I loose some performance at higher RPM or the only difference is just RPM where is tranny completely engage with engine?

Thanks a lot in advance.

[fy469rtse]

 I don't think you can get stall that low,
But 2400 not a big stall, so maybe something wrong here,
Look up the thread by John kunkel on here to make sure your bands are adjusted properly,
It could be converter slipping and poorly assembled.
If I remember stock converter around 1650 , so just order a reco one , and change it out , could be the stall in the one in your car higher than you think ,
What modifications have been done to motor,
What gears in the rear, that will give you better mileage

[Cooter]

I don't think you understand high stall speed converters and their principles.
a 3500 stall with 3.55 gear wouldn't rev the engine to 3500 RPM and THEN move.
I run a 3800 in the Dodge and driving with light throttle, can hardly tell it's there.

See, up to a point, high stall converters act like a slipping trans. Engine is revving higher, but whole time the vehicle is moving.
only when you mash the throttle do you feel the massive torque multiplication of a high stall with a performance engine.
yes, all high stall converters are constantly 'slipping'. Just how much determines if you will lose mpg. But, if your camshaft has a little too much duration (Lopey idle) you will hurt low end (take off).  Mpg may stay the same, or depending on how sluggish car is off the line, may get worse.

The 'flash' stall speed is sitting in gear, stomp the throttle, and back out as quickly. Kinda like a 'bunny hop'.
Generally, for a mild build, a 2500-2800 stall works well. For more aggressive builds, 3000-4000 stall speeds.
finally, for more in the racing type builds, 4500-5500 stall speeds.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Or install one of those fancy variable-on demand- adjustable stall ones....... aka a clutch! 

[cudaken]

 Shone I have ran a 400 Police converter love the shit out of it! It also is a 2400 RPM stall! I think a stock HP converter was around 2000 to 2200 range.

I would all so look at the bands adjustment, throttle kick down linkage. Have you check the transmission fluid level? If it is low it will make the 727 slip at low speed.

I have a 3500 TCI stall in the 70 Cuda, with the 3.23 gears it feels a little sluggish in traffic. Bring the engine up against the converter, Show Time!    

I would look at some other things before I change converters.

Cuda Ken

[Cooter]

Or install one of those fancy variable-on demand- adjustable stall ones....... aka a clutch! 

A clutchFlite.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Or install one of those fancy variable-on demand- adjustable stall ones....... aka a clutch! 

A clutchFlite.

[Kern Dog]

If your trans is fine, you'll find the lowest stall converters behind C body cars with 2.76 gears.

[shone190]

Thanks but I didn't find the answer I need

My main question is will I loose some performance at higher RPM (or change something else), or the only difference is just RPM where is tranny completely engage with engine?

If I understood stall speed correctly, it is the RPM when tranny will "completely engage" with engine through torque converter. So, If I use 1000-1200 RPM stall converter, what will it change except that I can't go from the start line at 3000RPM?

[Cooter]

Torque converters (unless has lock up ability) NEVER  completely 'engage' with engine.
yes, it will be a pig out the hole with a stock converter and hp cam.

[c00nhunterjoe]

It will also slam into gear, not want to idle in gear, and be a total dog off the line. I dont even know where you would go to get a 1000 stall converter? 

2400 is not much converter. Fwiw, my 06 2500 chevy comes stock with a 2900 stall.

[shone190]

What is stock 440 stall speed?

[Brass]

Hopefully someone can answer your question regarding the stock stall speed.  Are you certain you know what converter you have in there right now?  I had a big, 12" converter from a C-body in my car that was soft and mushy.  Ron (Firefighter) recommended a tighter 11" converter with a much higher stall (2800-3000) and it feels way, way better.  I don't notice any slippage on the highway even cruising under the stall speed.  Stall is not the only consideration when choosing a converter.  Maybe the problem resides elsewhere(?)

[John_Kunkel]

The only way you could get 1000-1200 stall speed in ANY 440 converter is to pull four spark plug wires. The tightest 727 converter ever made would still stall at around 2000 on a 440.

[shone190]

http://www.summitracing.com/dom/parts/hup-24fuel/overview/

http://www.hughesperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=54

[cudaken]

Hum, not a big fan of Hughes but maybe there quality is better now? 

Is your Charger stock, and what is your true goal, MPH or Fuel economy?

If it is Fuel economy I would look at the following.

1 Fuel Injection.

2 Better ignition. Fire Core comes to mind.

3 Free flowing exhaust with X pipe

4 Gear Vendor Over Drive

5 Lock up converter, and I have no idea if anyone makes them? 

Cuda Ken

[BSB67]

Right now, the car have 2400 stall converter and there is to much slippage in everyday city drive I mostly used the car.

Curious.  Exactly how did you determine this?

With a 2400 rpm stall there should be almost no apparent slippage at just off idle under light throttle pressure.

Something does not sound right, maybe it is a higher stall converter than you think, or something else is wrong with the tranny.

[shone190]

Stall converter is maybe 2800, I am not sure

In the meantime, I decided to buy TKO600 conversion kit, so there will be no more "stall speed" mysteries

Thanks a lot guys.

[John_Kunkel]

With a 2400 rpm stall there should be almost no apparent slippage at just off idle under light throttle pressure.

Stall speed is deceptive, a converter of a given stall can be built "loose" or "tight". IOW, one converter that stalls at 2500 WOT might seem to slip at light throttle (loose) while another converter that stalls at 2500 WOT might not slip at light throttle (tight).

[BSB67]

With a 2400 rpm stall there should be almost no apparent slippage at just off idle under light throttle pressure.

Stall speed is deceptive, a converter of a given stall can be built "loose" or "tight". IOW, one converter that stalls at 2500 WOT might seem to slip at light throttle (loose) while another converter that stalls at 2500 WOT might not slip at light throttle (tight).

Sure, a cheap converter.

[c00nhunterjoe]

It varies by engine too. A car with an engine producing alot of low end torque will feel like the converter is looser at low rpm then an engine that is all top end power.

[John_Kunkel]

Sure, a cheap converter.

No, it depends on how it's built and the application.

For example, a factory high-stall converter might stall at 2500 behind a 340 but will seem "loose" at low speeds because of the angle of the vanes in the stator. A factory low-stall converter of the same diameter might stall at 2500 behind a 440 but will seem "tight" at low speeds because of a different vane angle in the stator.

Ditto for aftermarket converters, you can have a converter built that will be loose or tight with the same WOT stall speed.

[BSB67]

Sure, a cheap converter.

No, it depends on how it's built and the application.

For example, a factory high-stall converter might stall at 2500 behind a 340 but will seem "loose" at low speeds because of the angle of the vanes in the stator. A factory low-stall converter of the same diameter might stall at 2500 behind a 440 but will seem "tight" at low speeds because of a different vane angle in the stator.

Ditto for aftermarket converters, you can have a converter built that will be loose or tight with the same WOT stall speed.

Right John.  But I'm yet to see a high quality converter intended for a 2500 rpm stall for its application and does stall at 2500 in its application(as the OP states) be sloppy loose at lower rpm.

[BSB67]

Sure, a cheap converter.

No, it depends on how it's built and the application.

For example, a factory high-stall converter might stall at 2500 behind a 340 but will seem "loose" at low speeds because of the angle of the vanes in the stator. A factory low-stall converter of the same diameter might stall at 2500 behind a 440 but will seem "tight" at low speeds because of a different vane angle in the stator.

Ditto for aftermarket converters, you can have a converter built that will be loose or tight with the same WOT stall speed.

Right John.  But I'm yet to see a high quality converter for a 440 intended for a 2500 rpm stall for its application and does stall at 2500 in its application(as the OP states) be sloppy loose at lower rpm.