Hotchkis TVS vs XV Motorsports Level I B-Body Suspension?

[krigel]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I just purchased a 68 Charger 383 car, and am in the process of mapping out the build. Here's what I am going for. Stock looking under the hood, stock interior, handles and stops like a 2014 car. I am deciding between bigger wheels (18's), or staying with 15 inch magnums (8 inch up front, and 10's out back) for that stock look. My question is suspension upgrades. The TVS looks like a great overall system, but I am unsure of A) price, and B) total drop. XV is proven stuff, but doesn't have torsion bars, etc. Anyone had experience with both? Thoughts?

Thanks for your input.

KR

[Troy]

If you want to stop like a 2014 you're probably gonna need bigger wheels. Most of the "big" disc brake kits require at least 17" wheels.

I haven't technically had experience with either suspension setup - although I do own a complete TVS system for one of my Chargers (it's still a work in progress).

Troy

[myk]

Don't forget the QA-1 products as well; competition-level member MSracing89 is using their tubular K-member, control arms and other trick pieces on his '68.  Speaking of XV, what's up with all of their B-body products being sold out?  Guess that makes the choice easier.  And for the wheels and tires?  Troy's right-you're going to have to get a bigger wheel with a shorter sidewall if you're serious about getting some handling on that car.  If you're going for a vintage look get the 17" Magnum 500 wheel, a Torq-Thrust D,M or something...

[krigel]

It's got 17's on it now...I may just stick with that. I'll check into the QA1 stuff. I do want something that is matched front to back for spring rates with torsion bars and leaf springs. Was going to go with a Willwood disk set up for brakes.

[myk]

You've got the 17's?  That's great.  I like the idea of the Hotchkis TVS because they claim it's a "matched" set of pieces.  One thing I don't understand is why they don't offer lower control arms or a tubular K-member as well, or why their TVS system doesn't include torsion bars either.  Are you going to buy everything at once, or piece it together one part at a time?

[krigel]

I would get the TVS and the torsion bars from Hotchkis. I was going to put the whole suspension together at once. To keep the price down, I could always piece something together with SS springs, torsion bars from somewhere like PST, hotchkis sway bars etc., but I also like the idea of it all being matched for spring rate, and I also like the upper control arms being included. Then, I'm thinking a Unisteer rack. Outside of that, all stock.

[myk]

What shocks are you thinking?

[krigel]

Not sure yet...I like the QA1's, but I don't need that level of adjustability, and the cost is steep. I might actually order the XV ones, or go with something else. Thoughts?

[myk]

Not sure yet...I like the QA1's, but I don't need that level of adjustability, and the cost is steep. I might actually order the XV ones, or go with something else. Thoughts?

I was just going to throw Hotchkis' shocks on mine...

[krigel]

They are pricey too. Maybe some KYB's.

[Troy]

Ugh. You're gonna put on a much better performing suspension then slap on some KYBs? These suspensions are mainly designed around the shocks! Honestly, the shocks for the TVS system are relatively cheap at ~$400.

You can build a pretty nice handling ride with off the shelf parts - stiffer torsion bars and springs, frame connectors, torque boxes, steering box and k-frame stiffeners, and *good* shocks. Not much point in putting on anything else with crap shocks.

Troy

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I'm with Troy, don't add on all these new parts and then cheap out on shocks which is one of the most important parts. Go with a set of Hotchkis/Fox, Bilstein, or QA1 shocks.

If you are looking for a complete system that is meant to work together go with a company that is doing it right, Hotchkis, QA1, or Firmfeel. The XV setup looks ok but its not in stock and who knows if it will ever be. And I feel they are missing one very important piece, the upper control arms. All these parts aren't going to mean squat if you can't get a decent alignment done.  

I am running the full hotchkis TVS with the matching hotchkis shocks on my 69 and love the way it handles. In the 3 years I've had it installed I have not run into a single problem with this setup. It does drop the height of the car though, the rear springs are a 2" drop and the torsion bars will drop the front about an inch. And some will complain about the life and ride quality of heim joints but I have had no problems and the ride is not harsh at all. Its a firm ride but not back breaking. 

Along with one of these setups go with a new steering box, some chassis stiffening, and a hydroboost master cylinder to go with the brakes and you will have a sweet ride.

[krigel]

Ok....Hotchkis it is! Gonna put rack and pinion in as well and ditch the steering box

[1974dodgecharger]

Can I have some money....

[bill440rt]

I second the hydroboost coupled with the Wilwood discs. Best thing I did as well. 
I pretty much upgraded the stock suspension design, but am thinking about some Hotchkis components down the road. I already have their sway bars and concur they are top notch. I got them when they first came out. I too, also have KYB's and have been thinking to swap to something better (Billsteins or QA-1). The KYB's are really stiff.
For steering I went with a Steer-n-Gear Stage2 and couldn't be happier.

Keep in mind once you get all these suspension mods done you'll find that the stock seats are a joke when it comes to support. They do the job fine in a stock-type car but once you have something that handles you'll be gripping the steering wheel just to keep your a$$ planted in the seat. 

Sounds like you have some good plans. 
And welcome to DC.com! 

[krigel]

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I have thought about seats. My interior is good, but I was thinking about the Legendary Rallye seats with the proper 68 pleats. They look cool.

[58pwrwgn]

   Do some research on the unisteer rack. I think it was getting bad reviews for poor turning radius.  Beside rebuilt boxes, Borgeson has a new box that is smaller lighter and 14 to 1. there is a current thread on moparts in the handling forum. Reweld and brace the steering box mounts and rebuild the steering coupler. Use modern alignment specs for radial tires.

[Kern Dog]

Then, I'm thinking a Unisteer rack. Outside of that, all stock.

S K I P the unisteer unit. There are too many drawbacks and too few improvements on this one.
They have a wider turning radius for one. They are known for actually increasing the dreaded "bump steer" as well. For similar money you could get a Borgeson steering box that is getting fantastic feedback.

[surmanajaja]

Ok....Hotchkis it is! Gonna put rack and pinion in as well and ditch the steering box

keep the steering box. all bolt on racks are crap- and there is nothing wrong with a box, many big mercedes still had a box couple years ago and even a BMW m5 had one at least until 2003. the borgeson box is a late model jeep one and will perform better than any rack u  can put there, unless you swap the whole suspension for a c5-c6 vette stuff or similar.

xv products had quality problems, go to hotchkiss to get nicely handling car. no it wont be a 2014 ferrari but come on, its an almost 50 years old car..

[myk]

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I have thought about seats. My interior is good, but I was thinking about the Legendary Rallye seats with the proper 68 pleats. They look cool.

Try these ProCar Rally 1000 seats, for about $400 each:



Sitting in that chair I know I'm not going anywhere unless I roll the car over.  The bolsters make it somewhat difficult to get in and out of the Charger but it's a price I'm willing to pay.

Question: why doesn't Hotchkis offer a lower-control arm or a tubular K-member?  Are they not as critical as the parts they already produce? 

[58pwrwgn]

       Give Firm Feel a call to, they have been doing Mopar suspension for a long time.

      Hotrod Magazine did a tire test with a 1970 Satellite. It used Hotchkis stuff with I think a Firm Feel box.  The Tire Rack driver was impressed with how it handles. It was a faster around the track than their 3 series BMW test car. The car looks good in the utube video.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotrod.com%2Ffeature_stories%2F1401_the_best_200_treadwear_tires_test%2F&ei=4o__Up6bMaeBygG2mIHoCg&usg=AFQjCNGcxJ2bE7gLvedGrBcMvteYzxXzQQ&bvm=bv.61535280,d.aWc

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkASM04zuHlo&ei=4o__Up6bMaeBygG2mIHoCg&usg=AFQjCNHhbPbyaiRUtTqDtypooGDaHpPgNA&bvm=bv.61535280,d.aWc

[krigel]

Ok...still deciding on rear springs...I'm leaning towards TVS but am scared the drop will be too much in the back. I want a nice rake, and would like it to still look old school, but handle better. Anyone used the full firm feel suspension set up?

[Wookie316]

Alterkation in the front. Street Lynx in the rear. RMS makes great Mopar stuff!
I don't have the Street Lynx but I wish I had. Maybe in the future.

[Wookie316]

You will need at least a 17" rim. I wanted to do what you are planning but couldn't make the 15" rim fit without a spacer which I didn't like. Had I known this I'd have went to 14" brakes instead of 11". I used Wilwood on the front and Dr. Diff in the rear. Really like his e brake setup over the Wilwood design.

[Wookie316]

Sounds like XV may be closing its doors. I cannot confirm that though.