Heavy Duty ammeter

[Ghoste]

timmycharger brought this up in another guage thread but I thought it warranted its own?  Has anybody used this guage?

http://www.chargerspecialties.com/gauges.htm

[cdr]

YES thats what i have ,but it is bypassed ,also it does not fit correct.

[myk]

Hmm...Impressive...

[timmycharger]

Thanks Ghoste

Cdr, where were the fitment issues? it looks really close!

Im doing the mod Nacho outlined and would like some added insurance. My ammeter was just restored by Autoinstruments and Im hoping it will be ok with the wiring upgrade and possibly a 100amp alt.

[Ghoste]

And is the fitment something that can be addressed?

[b5blue]

That is OER Brand stuff. I have one to install in my 70, I've heard of no issues. 

[myk]

Thanks Ghoste

Cdr, where were the fitment issues? it looks really close!

Im doing the mod Nacho outlined and would like some added insurance. My ammeter was just restored by Autoinstruments and Im hoping it will be ok with the wiring upgrade and possibly a 100amp alt.

Won't the 'alt wiring 'mod affect the accuracy of the ammeter gauge?

[timmycharger]

Thanks Ghoste

Cdr, where were the fitment issues? it looks really close!

Im doing the mod Nacho outlined and would like some added insurance. My ammeter was just restored by Autoinstruments and Im hoping it will be ok with the wiring upgrade and possibly a 100amp alt.

Won't the 'alt wiring 'mod affect the accuracy of the ammeter gauge?

Ya, I was more concerned with it withstanding more heat, but Im kind of stubborn on the "look" of stock gauges so I don't want to add anything non stock appearing. What exactly is my ammeter going to do after this mod? wont it still show some draw if the wipers are on, etc?  Im wondering if I could put an aftermarket voltmeter somewhere outside the cab so I can monitor it, maybe near the battery in the trunk? I dunno, just thinking.

[471_Magnum]

I'm not sure I understand the point if adding a gauge that can handle 60 amps. The wiring on either side of it, or anywhere else on the vehicle can't handle that much. I think I rather have my OEM unit playing the part of the fuse rather than a weak spot in the wire harness.

Now, if you're upping the wire size from the alternator, to the fuse box, and to the battery, and bypassing the bulkhead connection, you might actually increase your safe current capacity.

[Ghoste]

I think that is the intention of the guage though, if you do those other things to prevent it from now becoming the weak point.

[myk]

I'm not sure I understand the point if adding a gauge that can handle 60 amps. The wiring on either side of it, or anywhere else on the vehicle can't handle that much. I think I rather have my OEM unit playing the part of the fuse rather than a weak spot in the wire harness.

Now, if you're upping the wire size from the alternator, to the fuse box, and to the battery, and bypassing the bulkhead connection, you might actually increase your safe current capacity.

He's going to do the wiring 'mod that runs heavy gauge wire from the output of the 'alt directly to the starter relay; effectively taking most of the power away from the dash/cabin wiring.  This should keep him from burning his car to the ground but I'm pretty sure the ammeter readings will be worthless...

[cdr]

it has a small gap at the very top & sits a little lower,i took the cluster back out & tried to move it around but the way it installs there is no adjustment.it might be a miss made one that i got ? with dash in car its hard to notice it,but I know its wrong.

[myk]

   Looks pretty good to me, man...

[Ghoste]

It would bother me.

[Nacho-RT74]

it seems some ppl haven't read my thread about the alt and wiring upgrade yet ( still with original amm and without bypass ), which I'm running on my car by years now, and I use it as driver including AC.

[Ghoste]

 

[myk]

it seems some ppl haven't read my thread about the alt and wiring upgrade yet ( still with original amm and without bypass ), which I'm running on my car by years now, and I use it as driver including AC.

I don't think the 'OP is talking about a bypass, but an additional wire to take the strain off of the original wiring.  In other words, running power to the ammeter with OEM wiring AND another wire from the 'alt to the starter relay.  I'll confess I haven't read your article/posts about the issue because it's not the direction I took on my '69, but seeing how you're sort of the expert on it you should put a link in your 'sig to help out other members who may want to follow your path...

[fy469rtse]

Haven't done one in a while , but when I was struggling with wiring issues on one of my first cars,
Good friend of mine helped me by showing how to do the by pass and have the original gauge function as normal, how it was done by passed as in previous threads and then a smaller load wire with diodes on in out wires to gauge as per the factory connections, gauge had to be recalibrated for much smaller load,
But it worked and I never thought about it again, no worries about being a fire point again ,
Glad you guys posted this because it was in the back of my mind to get him to help on calibration of gauge again, intend to do the same, all other upgrades done as in threads on here

[myk]

Interesting.  How do you re-calibrate the gauge for the reduced load?

[Nacho-RT74]

it seems some ppl haven't read my thread about the alt and wiring upgrade yet ( still with original amm and without bypass ), which I'm running on my car by years now, and I use it as driver including AC.

I don't think the 'OP is talking about a bypass, but an additional wire to take the strain off of the original wiring.  In other words, running power to the ammeter with OEM wiring AND another wire from the 'alt to the starter relay.  I'll confess I haven't read your article/posts about the issue because it's not the direction I took on my '69, but seeing how you're sort of the expert on it you should put a link in your 'sig to help out other members who may want to follow your path...

I meant because ppl needs to understand first how the Charging system works and what it means the ammeter reading, before decide to modify anything. Then after that if you still decide to modify, is at each own, but understand first the system.

The first misconception comes from factory, when they state like the ammeter is an alternator gauge when really is a batt gauge. Aternator never discharges so how we can get a discharge reading on an alternator gauge ?  Batt is the acumulator what really gets discharged, so imposible to be an alternator gauge.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0.html


some statements:
you can get a 1000 amps alternator, but if the car demands just 35, 40, 50, 60, the alternator NEVER EVER will source 1000 amps alt. Amperes are never given, they are REQUESTED by the equipment. Volts are the unit given by the source ( i.e. you charge your cell Phone wich barelly uses 0.5 amps, on a full electric net on your city which is maybe sourced by a millions of amperes capability powerplant )

being the source request on our cars is between alternator and ammeter ( main splice ), the ammeter will never be affected by any kind of alternator output, no matter if you have a 20 amps  ammeter or 100 amps ammeter. The only moments the ammeter comes to play is when your alt is not able to feed the car demand, so batt begins to supply the rest of power... that's the moment when you get a Discharge reading. Then revving up, when the alt begins to be able to source the full car AND what the batt lost in previous moment... that's the moment when the ammeter reads Charge, batt sucking power untill gets a fully electrochemical balance, or FULLY CHARGED

If you reduce the back and forth ammeter readings at minimun reading stage, you'll never get load ( amperes ) at gauge. No Load, no Heat.

Then the only weak spots are the bulkhead terminals, more the alt wire ( black ) than the batt wire ( red ). You can in fact just upgrade the black wire of the charging system and still keep the Red wire like factory did and you will be still safe, because with an upgraded alt the batt will barelly come to play, so its wires won't be getting the load, like what previouslly explained about the ammeter. Just that better upgrade both in case of long time discharge reading for whatever reason, to get a good recharge path up to batt on system.

[Pete in NH]

Much of what Nacho mentioned in his previous post is true. If the car's electrical load only requires 20 amps that is all the alternator will source, even if it is a 100 amp alternator. I think the important thing to keep in mind however, is what is the "worst case" thing that can happen to the electrical system. A good system design tries to consider the worst thing that can happen and try to protect against it. If you have a 100 amp alternator and a short circuit occurs before the fusible link or fuse in the system, the alternator will source 100 amps before blowing out its own diodes or melting a lot of wiring. For this reason, I believe it's dangerous to put big alternators on these cars without carefully considering certain upgrades to the cars wiring.

[Ghoste]

And those higher than original alternators and the extra load of the modern conveiences we add are a bigger source of the problems incurred in these cars than "poorly designed" ammeter and bulkhead connector in my opinion.  We ask more of the electrical system than the engineers intended and then blame them for not anticipating the future.

[b5blue]

Much of what Nacho mentioned in his previous post is true. If the car's electrical load only requires 20 amps that is all the alternator will source, even if it is a 100 amp alternator. I think the important thing to keep in mind however, is what is the "worst case" thing that can happen to the electrical system. A good system design tries to consider the worst thing that can happen and try to protect against it. If you have a 100 amp alternator and a short circuit occurs before the fusible link or fuse in the system, the alternator will source 100 amps before blowing out its own diodes or melting a lot of wiring. For this reason, I believe it's dangerous to put big alternators on these cars without carefully considering certain upgrades to the cars wiring.

Well said and a factor that needs to be understood. 
Now that I have a Firecore RTR Dist. and coil, Denso 120amp Alt. and a dozen 40amp relays I'm considering just building my own engine harness. I have my old one and a new 70 Charger engine harness with the ECU modification to start with. It's time to start sourcing a distribution block for Alt. output. 

[myk]

Much of what Nacho mentioned in his previous post is true. If the car's electrical load only requires 20 amps that is all the alternator will source, even if it is a 100 amp alternator. I think the important thing to keep in mind however, is what is the "worst case" thing that can happen to the electrical system. A good system design tries to consider the worst thing that can happen and try to protect against it. If you have a 100 amp alternator and a short circuit occurs before the fusible link or fuse in the system, the alternator will source 100 amps before blowing out its own diodes or melting a lot of wiring. For this reason, I believe it's dangerous to put big alternators on these cars without carefully considering certain upgrades to the cars wiring.

100% in agreement, which is why I am no longer a proponent of doing the 'alt 'mod that sees an owner installing a fat alternator and then rigging it with a fat wire to the starter relay.  If someone, like me, wants to run the fat alternator along with the power windows, electric fuel/water pumps/fans, giant stereos, MSD ignition, under-car neon-lighting and all that jazz, then the proper way to do so, in my own humble opinion, is to have the car re-wired for it..

[Nacho-RT74]

Ok, if you get a short let's say just with alternator working and the battery disconected on car, the engine will stall and alt won't charge anymore, no more feed for the short. Batt is the real only source to keep feeding the short, thats why the fuse link is just on that side.

It can take a bit less or more on stall the engine, but will stall.

You can get dozens of relays, but a short will act the same with or without relays, depending where the short happens