Stuck rear drum, how do i remove it?

[Lord Warlock]

My car has front discs, rear drums, front discs have been updated with new parts, now i'm moving to the back wheels.  The drum appears to be stuck as its sat in one location for a long time, probably about six years since i moved it into this position in a garage.  Three of the wheel studs have fallen inside the hub, so i wanted to remove the drum, get the studs out, and either order new ones or put these back in place.  However, the drum cover appears to be stuck and doesn't budge.  Beating on it with a hammer to loosen the rust scale hasn't improved it, how do you remove a stubborn drum brake cover? 

I have two brand new drums i can install if i can get the old ones off, also have new shoes.  But i'm stymied on how to get the old drum off the axle.  Thought i'd try using a wheel/gear puller to get it off but the one i have is only good for an 8' spread, which isn't large enough to reach the edge, none of the rental stores nearby even carries a large gear puller anymore.  Hate to have to buy one for a one time use but will do what i have to.  There has to be a solution.  How do yall deal with difficult to get off drums? 

Thanks,

Lord Warlock

[el dub]

Beat it with a rubber or plastic hammer

[hawkeye]

Heat around the center with torch and keep tapping.  It will come loose.

[Hard Charger]

most likely the center hub is craped up but don't forget to back off the shoes and maybe shear of the shoe hold down pins too.

[ws23rt]

When you say it won't budge I take it to mean it doesn't even wiggle. In that case what was already said should work fine. Which is heat the drum around the center where it is tight  on the center hub. (Propane torch is fine).

If however it is not stuck there than it may be bound up on the brake shoes.  I had a drum that was worn so bad that the shoes were inside the drum almost 1/8 inch and it took a lot of backing off the star adjuster to allow them to retract far enough to remove the drum.  I bring this up as a reminder to others that may be looking at this and is a case where there was a lot of metal grinding going on.


Three studs fell inside?--Hope they don't hang up and add to your puzzle

[Lord Warlock]

Oh goody, i get to play with the torch...

Wish the wheel puller i had fit, may have to fabricate my own think i could actually build something that works, but torching it is worth giving it a try, not sure the rubber hammer would do anything when it ignores a 5lb sledge hammer.

I thought about backing off the shoes, can't find the brake tool that i know is laying in the wrong place somewhere in the garage, seen it, remember seeing it, but don't remember where.  Will have to look closer and see if i can find the adjuster through the adjustment slot, i'll try to loosen them before heating it and beating on it more.  does the wheel turn upward to loosen or down?  Actually dug out the old chiltons manual but haven't read it all yet.

Two studs had fallen inside before today the first one has been inside quite a while, the 2nd fell in about a month ago when i was putting new wheels on,  the third one dropped inside after whacking the drum a while today, they should be sitting loose inside but can't tell till i get it off and see.  With only two studs (next to each other) I don't trust lowering the car on the wheel without a jack stand under the axle.   

[ws23rt]

As far as which way to turn the star wheel.  It is always a hard one to describe but one thing makes it clear and that is if you go the wrong way it gets tight.
The good news is there are only two ways to turn it.

[Hard Charger]

As far as which way to turn the star wheel.  It is always a hard one to describe but one thing makes it clear and that is if you go the wrong way it gets tight.
The good news is there are only two ways to turn it.

Just did this a couple days ago. wrench moves towards the axle shaft.

had to bang the drum for several minutes and one side I needed to use a screw driver to pull the drum out. you can back out the adjuster screw enough to knock it out of the way also so the shoes can float free.

[ws23rt]

As far as which way to turn the star wheel.  It is always a hard one to describe but one thing makes it clear and that is if you go the wrong way it gets tight.
The good news is there are only two ways to turn it.

Just did this a couple days ago. wrench moves towards the axle shaft.

had to bang the drum for several minutes and one side I needed to use a screw driver to pull the drum out. you can back out the adjuster screw enough to knock it out of the way also so the shoes can float free.

See what I mean---"Wrench moves towards the axle shaft"---?? It is hard to be clear but is not a problem.  One way works and the other doesn't.

I have a star adjuster that has a letter L stamped in the end of the stud. If that adjuster was installed on the right side of the car would it be correct?
My point is what is correct from the factory is not necessarily what we have on our 50 year old cars. And to tell someone to move the star wheel in one direction only to release the shoes could be missleading   

[chargerbr549]

Had an idea don't know if it will work, are the holes where the studs fell out big enough to get a 9/16 socket in there to take out the nuts that hold the axle on? If you can take the nuts off you can then take the whole axle out with the drum on then set the axle on end and hammer the drum off. Don't know if will work I haven't done this myself.

Kevin

[Lord Warlock]

sorry 540, the holes are the same size as the threaded stud, might get a small socket extension thru, but the 9/16 socket itself won't go thru that hole.  I could get a L shaped rod/lag bolt into the three holes without studs, and make an improvised wheel puller with them, but hate to spend the time and effort doing so.  If i go that way, i'll knock the other two studs out to get a uniform pull.  Luckily, i have a torch and a hammer already in the garage, so i'll try that first, if that fails then i'll try something else.  My dad is sending his wheel puller over with my daughter who is returning home for thanksgiving, if that doesn't work, I may walk the swap meet at the daytona turkey rod run this weekend and find another puller.  Saw a few on ebay that could work, but they use arms that you use the studs themselves to anchor the arm with, and without the stud i'm screwed. 

The problem with the star wheel movement is that since i haven't done it in a long time, i've totally lost the feel for it, remember that when you moved the tool in the right direction it would provide resistance but you could feel it move, but its been a looooooong time since  i  did it last.  

[Dino]

The likely problem is indeed the star adjuster.  If I recall, you need to push the lever aside with a small screwdriver, then use another to move the wheel.  You will know right away if you're going in the right direction or not.  A few turns and the drum should fall right off.

The drum covers are real weak, I ruined one with one blow of a hammer, had no idea they were so flimsy.  If you're going to toss these anyway then why not take an angle grinder and make a few cuts running width wise?  That'll give you enough space to open the drum and remove it without a puller.

[Lord Warlock]

tried heating it up, didn't work, so had to go out and get a new adjuster tool to try and back off the star wheel first.  My covers seem to be pretty strong still, i wouldn't want to try to cut one off with a cutting wheel, i'd end up cutting thru the axle or brake assembly behind it too, make more work and expense for me.  It was too cold to work long on the brake today, so will wait for it to warm up a little first, will try out the new adjuster tool tomorrow or Friday when time permits, and try to back it off first then will heat it and try to get it off again. 

[b5blue]

Having worked on very crappy old brakes you can take a die grinder or cut off wheel, even a hack saw or saws-all and cut/score as much as possible the drum in half. A few good whacks with a chisel and hammer or an air chisel and that thing will bust in half.     

[Lord Warlock]

I may have to cut it off as the studs may be blocking the star wheel, won't know till i try to turn it, its in the low 40s today so i'm not working on it.  It will just have to wait a few days. 

[Lord Warlock]

Well, an update to the drum problem,  the star wheel wouldn't turn, the studs and fallen in and around the star wheel gear and were blocking access to it.  The cover itself had rusted to the brake pads.  I ended up having to cut the damn drum off, and just as i feared when doing so, managed to screw up the axle flange, cut thru two of the stud holes, ruined one, i could probably use the 2nd i cut into, but it looks like i'll have to replace the entire axle and get a new flange to mount the wheels again.  From what i've found in the initial search the axles aren't that expensive, certainly more than i counted on spending for xmas on the charger but may as well get new ones.  

However, after getting the cover off, and disassembling the rear drum,  the cylinder was corroded inside and filled with crap,  I don't think its rebuildable at this point,  I may have to replace the rear brake assembly and if i do that i will most likely upgrade the brakes in the rear to discs.  Any recommendations on where to buy axles and rear disc conversion kits?  

[cdr]

dr diff has everything you need

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doctordiff.com%2F&ei=nKeaUtWVKMSOkAeSi4CgCA&usg=AFQjCNGXmCi95o6LC5Pw4Chm_xQCgrdQfA&bvm=bv.57155469,d.eW0

[Lord Warlock]

still contemplating just fixing the drum or getting a rear disc kit,  can't make up my mind on it yet.  The cost of getting a new axle (or two new axles as i don't like having one side different than the other) eats a chunk of the disc brake budget, can get a whole rebuild kit to redo the entire drum assembly for both sides at a fraction of the cost, plus i already have new hub covers for the rear, and new pads, so have to make up my mind on the disc kit  still. 

[b5blue]

Repair and move on, the gain is not that big for cost spent.

[Lord Warlock]

ordered the axles and drum rebuild kit. 

[b5blue]

What bearings with the axles? 

[Lord Warlock]

they come with the green bearings installed.

[b5blue]

I have the same and they have been fine. Nice not worrying about adjusting. 

[Lord Warlock]

Just seems that every time i take something off, i have to spend a bigger chunk of change to fix or replace parts that i didn't intend to otherwise.  This started with replacing brake lines, only to find out the brake drum was stuck on again, it had been stuck before so figured it wouldn't be pretty if i got the cover off, had to cut the cover off, then had to replace one axle...getting two axles means i have to remove and replace the other side also giving me twice the work i had planned on initially, although it is better to have everything nice and new again after a long storage.  The car evidently disagreed with being parked on dirt for 10 years under a quanset hut style tent before i had the permanent structure built.  At least now when its stored, its dry and rodent free.  

This weekend i took the gas tank out, because i already had it jacked up for the wheel/hub and knew it had old gas that needed to be drained...damn that old gas stinks up the yard, definitely has a stale gas smell.  Now i have to decide if i want to replace the tank or reuse the old one, doesn't appear to be rusted at all, but its covered in undercoating, like every square inch under the car is.  Wish i could take the rear diff off to scrape/clean and repaint it, also can see i'll be needing to replace the rear shocks once it gets drivable, and the leaf springs could use a sandblast and repaint also.  Whoever undercoated the car did a thorough job of it, definitely wasn't someone with a can of undercoat spray.    

Now that the tank is out, i can have a locksmith come out and get the old locking gas cap out of the tube, was afraid of drilling the lock out would drop shavings inside the tank if it went that far.

[b5blue]

  Brakes are the most important system on the car and always the first to get a major overhaul on any car I buy. There is no point getting it running if it can't stop!
  Hang in there and fix it part by part then deal with getting it looking better. That lock is worth saving if it's a Charger lock!