Frame off resto. estimate??

[MxRacer855]

Hey guys,

I'm 99% positive that the building process I'm using on my '68 is backwards,  My car as a whole is really in great condition. I'm slowly going through and hitting all of the major area and completing them 100% before moving on to the next. I've already tackled the cooling system, most of all the interior, completely new Dana 60 rear end, brakes, trans, wheels/tires, emblems, and soon the motor and suspension. The final step will be to get the chassis and body on a rotisserie and sprayed out (while having little things cut and reinforced).

Is it really bad to be doing this backwards?? Right now, it's just financially easiest and seems the most straight forward to me since I'm still learning. I know ideally the way to go is building the car from the ground up. So what I'm asking is, what a rough estimate would be for someone to strip the car to paint it on a rotisserie. Maybe replace some quarter panels too? I know that's very generic and open to a million more questions, but I would just love any input anyone can offer and if anybody went through a process similar to this chronologically.

Thanks! I've really been losing sleep over it! 

[ACUDANUT]

I will help you sleep better... You cannot take the frame off a uni-body. 

[MxRacer855]

Lol, good point!  I meant just getting it down to where it's a completely bare body. Top and bottom.

[tsmithae]

Are you doing all the work yourself?  Are you doing a 100 pt concours restoration? Do you want a driver? There are a lot of factors and you can a couple grand or tens of thousands, all depends on what you want.

[MxRacer855]

I would like to do as much of the work as I possibly can by myself, but a lot of it I cannot do (replacing quarter panels, paint, etc). I understand that pricing is extremely relative to the depth.

[moparguy01]

There are so many variables that without seeing the car a GOOD estimate is damn near impossible. Everyone is used to estimates due to the way collision work is handled, but they are far from the same. An estimate in a restoration is just that, an estimate. Expect it to get higher by the time it goes. Rarely do I see cars without some hidden damage. But hey, after 40 years, and how many accidents it was in when it was "just a car" who knows what kind of people have worked on it.

From my experience having a shop strip down the car to bare metal, fix rust, quarter panels, provided it isn't all that bad, Your looking 10k plus. It takes lots of hours to do it right. There are also so many things that you may want to add, or reinforce, things like subframe connectors which will add more time and money.

That said, there are ways to get the price down, granted some shops don't want to do a car like that. If your comfortable spinning a wrench, the more stuff the shop doesn't have to take off or put back on, will save you money. if the car is gutted, no interior, trim, bumpers, lights, etc. its much easier to get down and dirty to the task at hand. However then you are on your own to put the stuff back on. and Please don't be one of those guys who takes it all off, then at the end tells us to put it all back on and make it perfect. Without taking it apart, getting it back on is much harder and is going to take more time.

I know that probably didn't help you a whole lot. But its honestly the best answer I can give you. Also keep in mind GOOD quality paint materials can be outrageous in cost. I've seen 1000 plus dollar gallons of paint. Thats just the base! then add the reducers, hardeners, clear coat, etc. You can go crazy with that stuff!

[green69rt]

Just my experience.   Paint job was estimated at $15K which included $5K for material.   Another $15k for some metal replacement (trunk floor, rear frame, front frame, inner fenders and some other minor metal parts.)   Rate was $65 an hr.   This was a top of the line shop that proposed a top of the line job.    Car was a shell.  This is not a cheap hobby!!

[Lord Warlock]

If you have the time, and the place to store the car and all the pieces you take off, neatly, bagged and tagged, (don't just take stuff off and shove in a corner, pieces tend to walk off when not looking at them) you can strip pretty much the whole body of all bolt on parts until you have a shell.  At that point it may be worthwhile to have it hauled or towed to a place that can soda blast the entire shell.  The more you can take off, the less you have to pay others to do it for you, you have to know what type of foundation you are working with, especially if you're talking about a full rotisserie restoration

You can spend 5-10k on the body even if its straight when you start off, more if you replace alot of panels.
You can spend 5-15k on a paint job
expect another 5k on motor
expect another 2-3k for interior, plus another 5k for trim, just replacing old chrome has cost me way more than i thought it would.

Its usually cheaper to buy one already done than to do one yourself, so save your time and your money, and buy one already built.  Those of us with emotional attachments to the car are stuck with fixing it from scratch.  Oh, take your estimate and quadruple it and you'll likely be closer to where you end up.  Also take your estimated time frame, triple it and you'll be lucky if you finish it then,

[myk]

No way to tell 'OP.  I remember about 10 years ago I took the Charger in to a 'resto shop to get some fuel system work done.  One of the other cars being worked on was a resto-mod/pro-touring '69 GTO.  The shop owner walks up to me and says, "I told this guy it'd be $70K to finish the car, but I'm about to call him right now and ask for $10K more-hahahahaha..."  In other words there are too many variables that could come into play of such an endeavor, be it the more typical cost-escalator with more work needed than initially estimated, all the way to crooked bastards at shops that will rape your wallet.  The most important thing to remember is that until you and your car part ways the spending, or "it" will never be over...

[XH29N0G]

For good or bad, I went through something like this with the car from my childhood.  I wanted to bodywork done, had a few places where there were obvious things that needed replacing (trunk floor pan, metal on lower part of rear quarters, metal behind at least one front fender, Dutchman panel) some dents in the rear where a trailer hitch had hit the back.  I did not care about the underside as long as it was solid. 

I took it to one place that did not do their own mechanical work, but had a good reputation and worked with a shop that did good bodywork.  They said they believed the body and paint work could be done (underside undercoated) for 25-26K.

I went to another place where the quote was 40-45K for a full restoration which was probably realistic for what they wanted to do (the whole car).  After talking with them about what I could afford, we worked out a plan for 30K for only the body work and paint.  They did end up replacing floor pans in the end because when they media blasted the underside, a bunch of little holes appeared.  Because of some changes in my budget situation, I later ended up arranging with them to replace the transmission and had the engine sent to be rebuilt.  This last part and a few other things I spoke with them about adding ended up adding up to about 5K because of collateral changes/shipping/exhaust/ for them.  There were also the costs of the parts for me.  All in all, the added costs were justified and not crazy.  I am glad I went with them for the body work and paint.  They (Troy Thornton's shop in Quakertown Pa) focus on Oldsmobiles but work on other cars and do nice work.  My guess is that for a similar level of work, you are probably looking at a similar outlay.

     

[ACUDANUT]

Some of these quotes on prices are crazy.  Who would spend 50K to rebuild a 318 Charger ?
My advice...Get out of the city limits and find an older, liable, dependable shop. 

[Lord Warlock]

I would assume the average 318 charger owner wouldn't be considering a nuts and bolts rotisserie restoration.  Its just too expensive these days, as well as taking way too long to finish.  Noone has said how long to expect the car to remain in a resto shop while the work is being done.  I've read some threads here where its taken years, as a shop can't focus on one vehicle only.  Doing it yourself makes more sense, but that too takes a long time to finish especially if you can't do all the work yourself. 

[myk]

Some of these quotes on prices are crazy.  Who would spend 50K to rebuild a 318 Charger ?
My advice...Get out of the city limits and find an older, liable, dependable shop. 

The engine displacement is irrelevant, isn't it?  A /6-904 car might need the same work as a Hemi/833 car and I would imagine that the pricing is the same.  If we're talking about people actually making the decision to spend that sort of money, well, I'm sure there are more nonsensical restorations that have happened...

[green69rt]

I'll give the usual answer, it depends...  How much are you willing to spend and why are you doing the project??  My car is not worth what I will put into it but my car is a "hobby" so do you plan to make money on a hobby?  Probably not.  I really don't know what to say for the individual owner, spend what you want, drive what you can afford, live life and don't look back.

[ACUDANUT]

Some of these quotes on prices are crazy.  Who would spend 50K to rebuild a 318 Charger ?
My advice...Get out of the city limits and find an older, liable, dependable shop. 

The engine displacement is irrelevant, isn't it?  A /6-904 car might need the same work as a Hemi/833 car and I would imagine that the pricing is the same.  If we're talking about people actually making the decision to spend that sort of money, well, I'm sure there are more nonsensical restorations that have happened...

The point was.....You could find one already restored, than some of these prices you guys are quoting here to fix one up.

[Dino]

There are no real estimates that would help.  The same company could give you vastly different numbers depending on the time of day you ask.  All I know is that whatever you budget, triple it. 

There is no real order on which part of the car to do first.  Obviously you will want to put primer on a bare piece of metal right away and not wait until the interior is in, but that's pretty much the only rule.

My favorite way of doing a resto, and yes I have done several, is to group every item that comes off the car and when it does you mark it as restore or replace.  I like to have most if not all the bolt on parts done before I start on the body itself.  I actually encourage people to have all their parts, in as new condition, ready to go on the car as soon as the paint is sanded and polished.

Too many people dump all their money in the body and end up bolting the old, crappy parts back on resulting in a $20K pos.

Restorations take as much planning as they take actual time.  You have to have a plan for every little detail and you need to be realistic.

Restoring most cars will cost more than the actual values of these cars so never do so unless you plan to keep it.  Once you have made that decision you make a dry run.  Start small and pretend you are going to redo everything under the hood but nothing more.  Imagine yourself unbolting every part and imagine what you would have to do to each part to make it like new again or better.  Now apply that thinking to the rest of the car.

When you are looking for others to do the work for you, make strict agreements on what will be done and in what time frame.  For instance, you will probably want to do as much demo as you can yourself to save money, but at some point you will have to turn the body over to the shop.  Your first quote needs to be to get the car in bare metal and onto a jig or rotisserie.  When that is done, you pay the shop in full for the work done.  At this point the shop sees exactly what needs to be done and can go over cost to do certain things to the car.  Doing it this way ensures you always know what is going on with your car and the shop also knows they won't be wasting time or risking working for free if the jobs are small.

I did a lot of work for people who could not afford full restos so I helped them with the hard stuff and let them do the more straight forward stuff.

[green69rt]

Dino's plan sounds real good, not that I'm doing it that way but maybe next time.

[MrSnicks]

UC Car Tool in Durham, NC give this as a blanket price:

"We have plenty of experience removing and repairing rust, fabricating replacement panels and restoring Mopars. For $17,500 – We will completely refurbish your Mopar Unibody and return it to you in bare steel. All rust will be removed, all damaged panels replaced or repaired as needed. Send us your ugly, rusty damaged Mopar Unibody and you will receive back a bare steel, straight, refurbished Unibody. Your Mopar Unibody will be ready for final body and paint."

That's sight unseen repairing any hole/damage/etc and stripping.  Probably the only "quote" you'll get that's not based on the condition of the car.

Patrick

[Troy]

Don't have time to read all the replies right now but I'll come back.

Having done this way too many times - I think you are on the right track. If I could do it over, I'd make all the mechanical bits and systems work as intended while still driving the car. I'd make the trim, lights, grill, etc. fit while it still had the old paint. I might even do wheel are tire testing and possibly change the interior out. After all that I'd tear down the car for metal work and paint. If you properly label all the parts your reassembly should be super smooth and fast. The worst feeling is having a wrench slip or having to put a lot of pressure on trim next to pretty new paint! I think a lot of professional shops "mock up" the car - basically making it running/driving - before finishing the body work.

Keep the car drivable as long as possible! It's way to easy to get bogged down with a long-term, full-bore restoration with no end in sight.

I have been playing with my Mach 1 that has been grounded for several years and my goal has been to get it back on the road for my dad. I hated putting some of the new/restored parts on a shabby car but I get to verify they fit/work in an environment that I'm comfortable in. So far I'm happy. I just hope I don't tear up anything and have to do it over. But, for now, we can enjoy the car and, eventually, all the small projects will be complete.

Troy

[Fred]

I'll give the usual answer, it depends...  How much are you willing to spend and why are you doing the project??  My car is not worth what I will put into it but my car is a "hobby" so do you plan to make money on a hobby?  Probably not.  I really don't know what to say for the individual owner, spend what you want, drive what you can afford, live life and don't look back.

I agree, I'll never get back anywhere near what I put into my car but that's beside the point. I did it for me and I couldn't be happier. And I'll enjoy it for as long as I possibly can.
I never look back only forward.

[myk]

I'll give the usual answer, it depends...  How much are you willing to spend and why are you doing the project??  My car is not worth what I will put into it but my car is a "hobby" so do you plan to make money on a hobby?  Probably not.  I really don't know what to say for the individual owner, spend what you want, drive what you can afford, live life and don't look back.

I agree, I'll never get back anywhere near what I put into my car but that's beside the point. I did it for me and I couldn't be happier. And I'll enjoy it for as long as I possibly can.
I never look back only forward.

Yes-restoring and living with an older car is an endeavor of love and emotion; anyone looking to rationalize or make a profit off of such an endeavor is just kidding themselves...