440 still wont idle for more than a minute

[69dodge383]

If the plugs are black....they are fouled. Time for a new set. What plugs are you running ? Heat range ?

*your plugs may be too cold (heat range) 

With 10.5:1 you should be using a 6 series NGK (BCP6ES) gapped at .040 with the MSD box. Adjust the idle mixture using a vacuum guage ; you want max vacuum with the idle mixture adjustment.

Some carbs just don't work well with a long duration cam that has lots of overlap. The idle circuit and fuel curve on an Edelbrock carb are not well suited to a build like yours. A Proform/Holley/Quickfuel double pumper with 4 corner idle would be a big improvement. 


Ron



Plugs were new and same part number as previous owner had in his car. autolite racing on the plug, cant think of p/n off hand.

what do you think the measure on vacuum needs to be? do you think i should get a cannister?
I think I am going to put on the Demon------> (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dem-1563010/media/chartsandguides) today and see what happens. I think is a good idea since the last guy racing with the motor was running this setup and be more suited for the motor.

What are you running on your 572?
I will keep you posted.

[firefighter3931]

Plugs were new and same part number as previous owner had in his car. autolite racing on the plug, cant think of p/n off hand.

what do you think the measure on vacuum needs to be? do you think i should get a cannister?
I think I am going to put on the Demon------> (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dem-1563010/media/chartsandguides) today and see what happens. I think is a good idea since the last guy racing with the motor was running this setup and be more suited for the motor.

What are you running on your 572?
I will keep you posted.

Just because the plugs are new doesn't mean that thry're the correct heat range  Cold plugs will foul easy....heat range is very important as is idle mixture.

Edelbrocks are notorious for a rich idle circuit and then go lean on the transition. 

If that Demon came off of this engine chances are the previous owner had it dialed in pretty good...i'd give it a try. With that cam you should be seeing ~10in of vacuum at idle. I would set the idle speed at 1000rpm in gear.

The 572 has a 1050 quickfuel (4150) double pumper....works very well 



Ron

[69dodge383]

Update, I pulled the edelbrock apart today. new carb. Floats were too low. went from 9/16" to 1 1/8", changed it to the 7/16" to 1" setting.

I get the same issue, starts, if i hold the gas some to idle it up it does fine for 10 or 20 seconds then dies. It just stumbles and dies...

Fuel pressure is at 5psi

So tomorrow I am going to put in the new plugs firefighter3931 recommended and am going to put the demon 850 on to see if i get a different result...

can anyone think of any other reason this engine will not idle and dies when i hold it to 3000rpm....?

[69dodge383]

Would you be able to hold that engine at around 3K rpm for a little while to see if it still dies?

if i try to hold it, it dies after like 10 seconds...

[Dino]

I hope the Demon fixes this issue.

[green69rt]

Did you ever try to keep it running by squirting fuel directly into the carb??

[69dodge383]

Did you ever try to keep it running by squirting fuel directly into the carb??

I didnt try that. Honestly, Im nervous about it. My grandfather got burned in 1972 doing something similar, backfired through carb while he was pouring gas in...I guess you can see my hesitation in doing it. I dont have any backfiring going on though...

Is there another way of doing what you are saying to do???

[Dino]

Did you ever try to keep it running by squirting fuel directly into the carb??

I didnt try that. Honestly, Im nervous about it. My grandfather got burned in 1972 doing something similar, backfired through carb while he was pouring gas in...I guess you can see my hesitation in doing it. I dont have any backfiring going on though...

Is there another way of doing what you are saying to do???

Gravity feed bottle, still a bit dangerous but you can at least create space between carb and 'tank'.

[69dodge383]

Is there any chance that a 5/16" fuel line could be causing this issue? I had done some prior research and that didnt seem like it would be a big deal since I upgraded to the electric fuel pump..

[Dino]

Is there any chance that a 5/16" fuel line could be causing this issue? I had done some prior research and that didnt seem like it would be a big deal since I upgraded to the electric fuel pump..

No there is no reason this wouldn't work with a 5/16" line. 

[hemigeno]

Dumb question here - but doesn't the ballast resistor cut the voltage going to the coil from 12v to 6v after the resistor has warmed up a bit?  What coil are you using?  If it's a coil sensitive to a constant 12v supply after engine startup, that could be something to consider perhaps?

Also - is there any blockage in your fuel tank vent hose or filler tube?  No matter how good your fuel pump may or may not be, it can't pull fuel from a sealed container for long.

Just thinking out loud here...

[69dodge383]

I am using

Dumb question here - but doesn't the ballast resistor cut the voltage going to the coil from 12v to 6v after the resistor has warmed up a bit?  What coil are you using?  If it's a coil sensitive to a constant 12v supply after engine startup, that could be something to consider perhaps?

I am using a blaster 2 coil. There is no more ballast resistor. I put the two wires from the resistor together.

Also - is there any blockage in your fuel tank vent hose or filler tube?  No matter how good your fuel pump may or may not be, it can't pull fuel from a sealed container for long.

No blockage that I know of. My fuel tank vent hose connects to the filler tube. Sometimes I get an air sound I open the fuel cap. I thought last weekend it may be vapor lock, so i popped open the fuel cap and let it run. got the same stall issue...


Just thinking out loud here...

[hemigeno]

I watched a bit of your video and this doesn't seem to be the problem based on the aftermarket dizzy you're using, but it's worth mentioning anyway.  The instructions for the MSD Blaster 2 coil says you still have to use a ballast resistor when using a points or "stock style" distributor (whatever the latter part means).

The air sound coming when you open the fuel cap is not normal, IMHO.  The fact that you ran it with the cap open and it still stalled is puzzling, but I don't think you should get any kind of air sound like that on a '69 Charger unless your vent tube is plugged up.  I would trace the filler tube's vent line all the way down to where it exits inside the frame rail... blow it out, run a wire down it, whatever... but your description doesn't sound right to me.  The vent line should be completely open to the atmosphere, and there shouldn't really ever be suction when the cap is open.  Ever.  It might also be worth it to examine your fuel lines very carefully from front to back to make sure there are no pinched-off areas or other restrictions.

[69dodge383]

One other thing i noticed today when starting the car and all. one time when it stalled out and i tried to give it some gas, liquid gas shot out of the top of the carb. gas sprayed out of the carb...not a lot, but enough for me to see it happen...

what would cause this?

I dont remember if this happened before or after i adjusted the floats....

I also just started the car and let it run. Idled for about 15 seconds, i punched the gas pedal to rev it up and it died.....

[green69rt]

Did you ever try to keep it running by squirting fuel directly into the carb??

I didnt try that. Honestly, Im nervous about it. My grandfather got burned in 1972 doing something similar, backfired through carb while he was pouring gas in...I guess you can see my hesitation in doing it. I dont have any backfiring going on though...

Is there another way of doing what you are saying to do???

You don't want to "dump"  a lot of gas in.  Just get a spray bottle and set the spray as a solid stream.  It won't take much to confirm the problem is fuel delivery.  An alternative is to get one of those winter "hard start" aerosol cans and use that to give you engine a little fuel.  Just enough to keep it running.  You'll know pretty quick if it works or just dies.  The idea is to confirm the fuel problem.

[cudaken]

 
While I still wonder about all the fancy Do Dads it could be some stuff floating around in the gas tank?  

Might try gravity feed and it is pretty easy to do. My Road Runner slept for 8 years and the gas was really foul! To get her running I installed a new fuel pump and stuck the hose in a gas can. But I need a way to get the nasty gas out!

I went to Advances Auto Parts and found this Flexible Funnel with a on / off control for $5.00.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/Charger%20Site/1-07-04-7_zps48c7cf42.jpg.html]

I added some fuel line and hooked it to the 750 Holley. Then I hooked the fuel pump to the gas tank and ran the other end to a 5 gallon gas can. Started her up and pump the foul crap out.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/She%20Lives/GravityFeed_zpscdc3779e.mp4.html

Might give it a try, only cost around $8.00 with the extra fuel line.

Cuda Ken

[firefighter3931]

OK, got a hunch  Had a similar situation awhile back and fixed it by reversing the pickup wires on the distributor. Mine would fire and run for a few seconds then just shut down....similar problem to yours but more acute. I was running an MSD billet distributor but i've seen this with other brands as well.

So....reverse the pickup wires and see if that fixes it. If the engine keeps running then readjust the timing after you get it going.


Ron

[69dodge383]

While I still wonder about all the fancy Do Dads it could some stuff be floating around in the gas tank? 

Might try gravity feed and it is pretty easy to do. My Road Runner slept for 8 years and the gas was really foul! To get her running I installed a new fuel pump and stuck the hose in a gas can. But I need a way to get the nasty gas out!

I went to Advances Auto Parts and found this Flexible Funnel with a on / off control for $5.00.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/Charger%20Site/1-07-04-7_zps48c7cf42.jpg.html]

I added some fuel line and hooked it to the 750 Holley. Then I hooked the fuel pump to the gas tank and ran the other end to a 5 gallon gas can. Started her up and pump the foul crap out.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/She%20Lives/GravityFeed_zpscdc3779e.mp4.html

Might give it a try, only cost around $8.00 with the extra fuel line.

Cuda Ken

The gas tank was new in winter 2011. Always new gas in this tank. About a 6 weeks ago, i drained the whole tank with my electric fuel pump, so i could install the fuel pump above the rear axle. I am almost certain bad gas is not an issue...

[69dodge383]

OK, got a hunch  Had a similar situation awhile back and fixed it by reversing the pickup wires on the distributor. Mine would fire and run for a few seconds then just shut down....similar problem to yours but more acute. I was running an MSD billet distributor but i've seen this with other brands as well.

So....reverse the pickup wires and see if that fixes it. If the engine keeps running then readjust the timing after you get it going.


Ron

I will give this a shot today. I am also going to try the demon 850 and see what happens. I also have my Holley street avenger 770 that was rebuilt in 2011 and ran fine with my 383 setup.....

[Dino]

Seeing a bit of spray on top of the carb when the engine shuts off is not out of the ordinary but it shouldn't be more than a mist really.  I wouldn't worry about that part too much right now.  First things first, we need to keep this puppy running so hopefully Ron's idea works out.

[cudaken]

69 Dodge, I didn't not think your gas was bad. I was wondering if something could be floating around in the gas tank that could be clogging up your gas pick up?

Reason I did it on my car was to get rid of the old gas in the tank.

Cuda Ken   

[69dodge383]

So I def dont think this is a gas issue. I pulled a plug on each side, both black and sooty. Rich. Drained oil in motor this morn. Smells like gas.
I may have flooded out the car when I put on my electric fuel pump the first time it was set to like 7psi. and that much psi def may be a little much for the Edelbrock. One thing I forgot to mention was that last wknd I stuck a screw driver down in the carb to open the vac secondaries. Started the car and it roared up and didnt act like it was starving for gas. I think the issue here is with the Edelbrock. In the PDF link here -------> http://www.jegs.com/pdfs/350carbchart.pdf  - it says that the max duration for my carb #1813 is 250 degrees, which is what my cam is. I am going to put the 850 Demon (from the previous owner) on either today or over the weekend and see what happens. I am also waiting on a new set of plugs per firefighter3931 recommended and gauges from Autometer. I am going to put all analog gauges in, i started the car yesterday and the water temp ran up all the way to 999 real fast and then went to zero and then started going into (-) numbers. I was like WTF. My digital tach from summit still doesnt work right and I even bought the correct tach adapter and hooked it up per the instructions...I think the auto meter/analog is the way to go, I cant trust in accuracy from this weird acting electric.....electric volt gauge works fine, reads a steady 14.4v, it is on the same hot circuit board as the other gauges, so I dont think there is a shortage of power to the gauges, the autometer O2 gauges light up like a christmas tree and the exhaust cut outs open and close with ease. headlights nice and bright.

[69dodge383]

While I still wonder about all the fancy Do Dads it could some stuff be floating around in the gas tank? 

Might try gravity feed and it is pretty easy to do. My Road Runner slept for 8 years and the gas was really foul! To get her running I installed a new fuel pump and stuck the hose in a gas can. But I need a way to get the nasty gas out!

I went to Advances Auto Parts and found this Flexible Funnel with a on / off control for $5.00.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/Charger%20Site/1-07-04-7_zps48c7cf42.jpg.html]

I added some fuel line and hooked it to the 750 Holley. Then I hooked the fuel pump to the gas tank and ran the other end to a 5 gallon gas can. Started her up and pump the foul crap out.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/She%20Lives/GravityFeed_zpscdc3779e.mp4.html

Might give it a try, only cost around $8.00 with the extra fuel line.

Cuda Ken

The gas tank was new in winter 2011. Always new gas in this tank. About a 6 weeks ago, i drained the whole tank with my electric fuel pump, so i could install the fuel pump above the rear axle. I am almost certain bad gas is not an issue...

That funnel setup looks good. Thanks for the tip. Looks like something I used to drink beers out of in my younger days!!!

[69dodge383]

OK, got a hunch  Had a similar situation awhile back and fixed it by reversing the pickup wires on the distributor. Mine would fire and run for a few seconds then just shut down....similar problem to yours but more acute. I was running an MSD billet distributor but i've seen this with other brands as well.

So....reverse the pickup wires and see if that fixes it. If the engine keeps running then readjust the timing after you get it going.


Ron

The only way I can reverse it is to cut the wires. Thee connectors on the wires from the dist and the box have a notch in them so they can only go together one way.....

[69dodge383]

Ok. So I Swapped to the Demon carb and got the same result. this time all the gauges were unhooked and the only things wired up were the msd trigger and fuel pump. car starts right up without issue. idles fine. not shaking or anything. a little rich but i have seen worse run longer than this. i put a voltage tester on my 12v source while the car is running. shows 15 v. car is idling strong without issue. i keep watching the volt tester and about 30 seconds goes by and it suddenly drops down to 8v and then the car dies. starts back up with out issue. my battery showed 12.3v after car died. battery is couple months old. i also have duralast battery couple years old and got the same result.

is my electrical system doing this?