Need help selecting a stroker kit for my newly acquired 440 block

[Supercharged Riot]

Well. After a lot of wining over my 383, I finally managed to pick up a late casting 440 block.

The bad news, it has cast internals.
The good news, I have an excuse to shop for new parts.
which means I got a blank slate to work with.
The only thing I will be re-using is the block itself.
Everything else will be new. (heads,rotating assembly, & other accessories, etc.)

I know this topic has been covered numerous times, but since I might have different needs, I figured Id make a new topic for my own engine.
Im looking to have something streetable that can operate at a wide RPM range, but I still want a lot more power than stock (obviously).
Im leaning towards a 440 Source kit (or should I go for Mancini Racing?)

What I am working with:
Dana 60 rear end with 4.10 gears
A833 4 speed transmission (23 spline). (which might be a T56 Viper transmission later down the line)
440 Block (1977 casting .030 over)

Budget:
I'll worry about it later


I hope that's enough info? Like I said, I got a blank slate right now, so any combo goes for me. I am open to suggestions. Thanks!

[six-tee-nine]

The 440 Source 440 to 512 kit is to be concidered the largest you can go with internal oil pickup. So if you want more cubes you'll need external oiling as an additional cost.

Second, the choise of slugs also depends on the choise of heads (dish or dome size), so you need to choose wich head you want to run.
Also important is the overbore size you will need. Meaning : you need to measure the bores of your block before ordering pistons.

I have read here that you should not pay extra for balanced kits but have your machinist check that wich will be money better spent.

[firefighter3931]

Here is the one i would use : http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/ma493ci440di.html

This is a nice 493 kit with quality components ; Eagle crank/rods, Diamond pistons and the rings & bearings are included as well. If you want it to run on pump gas then go with the dished piston. This will give you 10.5:1 with an 84cc closed chamber aluminum head. 

Ron

[Scaregrabber]

What firefighter said, cheap, proven, easy.

Sheldon

[Supercharged Riot]

What camshaft, aluminum heads and intake would you recommend?
id like to have somewhat of a stock appearance, Would the 440 source stealth heads go well with this or should i go for edelbrocks based on your experience? Im all ears

[firefighter3931]

My preference would be towards the Edelbrock head. Street Dominator intake manifold and an 850-950 cfm carb.

Cam will depend on vacuum requirements.


Ron

[Supercharged Riot]

Hey thanks firefighter and sixteenine. Ill definatly consider that.
Actually i calculated the cost and its a tad but cheaper for the mancini racing kit lol
Anyway i appreciate your sound advices

[John L]

My preference would be towards the Edelbrock head. Street Dominator intake manifold and an 850-950 cfm carb.

Cam will depend on vacuum requirements.


Ron

Ron,
I don't want to hijack the thread but this info plays right into what we have talked about. So what cam would you recommend for this type of build for a PS/PB car?

John

[Supercharged Riot]

My personal build wont depend on much vacuum in terms of brakes. I will be purchasing a hydroboost setup.

[firefighter3931]

My preference would be towards the Edelbrock head. Street Dominator intake manifold and an 850-950 cfm carb.

Cam will depend on vacuum requirements.


Ron

Ron,
I don't want to hijack the thread but this info plays right into what we have talked about. So what cam would you recommend for this type of build for a PS/PB car?

John

Hi John,

Not really a hi-jack because we're talking about street stroker builds 

For a car like yours where drivability is more important than trying to squeeze every last ounce of horsepower out of the build i would go with a custom grind on a 112* lsa to flatten the torque curve and make lots of manifold vacuum for easy tuning and power brakes. I Like the Comp XS solid flat tappet grinds but on wider lobe centers for your type of application. 

Ron

[firefighter3931]

My personal build wont depend on much vacuum in terms of brakes. I will be purchasing a hydroboost setup.

I guess it boils down to how much power you're looking to make and what you're willing to live with on the street   

Big cams make more power but are also more difficult to tune and drivability can suffer 


Ron

[John L]

Hi John,

Not really a hi-jack because we're talking about street stroker builds 

For a car like yours where drivability is more important than trying to squeeze every last ounce of horsepower out of the build i would go with a custom grind on a 112* lsa to flatten the torque curve and make lots of manifold vacuum for easy tuning and power brakes. I Like the Comp XS solid flat tappet grinds but on wider lobe centers for your type of application. 

Ron
[/quote]

As always Thank you for your input.

[69wannabe]

This is the exact kit I went with and with cast heads with mild port work and 214/181 valves and 88cc. It runs out good on pump gas with total timing at 34 degrees. Im running a XE284 comp hydraulic flat tappet cam which is slighty noisy but other than that it works great with power brakes and my vacumm headlights work good too. Running an edelbrock RPM intake and an 850 holley double pumper. It runs good cruising around and is plenty peppy too!!

[XS29L]

Muscle Motors sells  stroker kits for the 440 block that look pretty sweet.

[Supercharged Riot]

My personal build wont depend on much vacuum in terms of brakes. I will be purchasing a hydroboost setup.

I guess it boils down to how much power you're looking to make and what you're willing to live with on the street   

Big cams make more power but are also more difficult to tune and drivability can suffer 


Ron

Well ill put it this way...i dont want to compramise drivability because i see myself driving this car on a daily basis. I want more than stock power as well, but i want as much power a two bolt main will guve me on a reliable basis.

I understand that stock blocks are good up to 600 hp range. So im aiming for 500 - 600hp which i heard can be obtained with little effort. Ill post again with what im planning to use. Right now i cant because om using my phone lol

[firefighter3931]

My personal build wont depend on much vacuum in terms of brakes. I will be purchasing a hydroboost setup.

I guess it boils down to how much power you're looking to make and what you're willing to live with on the street   

Big cams make more power but are also more difficult to tune and drivability can suffer 


Ron

Well ill put it this way...i dont want to compramise drivability because i see myself driving this car on a daily basis. I want more than stock power as well, but i want as much power a two bolt main will guve me on a reliable basis.

I understand that stock blocks are good up to 600 hp range. So im aiming for 500 - 600hp which i heard can be obtained with little effort. Ill post again with what im planning to use. Right now i cant because om using my phone lol

If you're looking for good drivability something along the lines of what John will be using would work well. 

The Comp XS282S custom ordered with a 112* LSA would work fine and make excellent power. With basic prepped E-Heads you'd be looking at approx 550hp/600tq with nice street manners. 


Ron

[john108]

Please forget the question.  I have it figured out!

I would like to ask a related question.
I have contacted Comp Cams concerning grinding the XS282S and XS290S cams on a LSA 112 and the answers are confusing.  The advertised Inlet C/L for both of these Cams is 106 ATDC and 110 LSA.  

[Mick70RR]

John, have you thought about the MP 528 camshaft. Similar to the XS282S and already on a 112 degree LSA. I used it in my stroker, it's a nice street friendly cam with enough vacuum for power brakes. It works on the strip as well, I ran my best ever time with that cam. I swapped it out for a hydraulic roller and sold it to a friend of mine, he ran his best time on the strip with it as well. I didn't have much luck with the roller lifters so I pulled the roller cam and fitted an XS290S I had but i'm thinking about getting another 528. Less than $200 for the cam and lifters.

[Supercharged Riot]

Well Im leaning towards a mechanical hydraulic camshaft setup.
I understand this will cost more, but I dont want to deal with the hassle of storing extra bottles of zinc additive around
Im pretty sure this means I will have to choose different cylinder heads and other valve train components

I did a little research and came to the conclusion that hydraulic mechanical lifter setup is low maintenence as well and I dont have to worry about adding zinc to my oil
Any thoughts on this?

[firefighter3931]

Not sure what you're asking ; there is no such thing as a "mechanical hydraulic" camshaft ?

Lifters are either mechanical or hydraulic but not both. 


Ron

[Supercharged Riot]

Whoops. Let me correct my statement.

I am considering using a

Hydraulic Roller Camshaft setup from Comp Cams.
Any thoughts on this?

[Mick70RR]

Whoops. Let me correct my statement.

I am considering using a

Hydraulic Roller Camshaft setup from Comp Cams.
Any thoughts on this?

I fitted a Comp hydraulic roller together with their roller lifters, nothing but trouble. Ended up pulling it and going back to a solid flat tappet cam.

[Supercharged Riot]

so you werent satisfied with roller lifters in general or the brand that you used?
What was the problem?

Does the hydraulic roller setup make things more complicated?
I figured  the hydraulic roller set up was supposed to be less maintenance than the solid rollers? which is why I was considering it

[Mick70RR]

so you werent satisfied with roller lifters in general or the brand that you used?
What was the problem?

Does the hydraulic roller setup make things more complicated?
I figured  the hydraulic roller set up was supposed to be less maintenance than the solid rollers? which is why I was considering it

Ran ok for a while then one lifter started tapping, got the rocker covers off and one lifter had collapsed. Started it up and after a while the lifter pumped up. This happened a number of times, each time it was a different lifter. The last time, two lifters had collapsed. One pumped itself up after running it for a while but the other didn't. So I pulled the lifters and took a few apart. There's an oil metering plate under the pushrod cup and the plates were breaking into pieces. The small pieces of plate would block the valve in the bottom of the lifter and if it made it's way passed the valve the lifter would start working again.
These are Comp lifters, can't remember the part number. I was also using the recommended valve springs for the cam as well.
The lifters also used to tap a lot for a while when I started it up in the morning, never happy about that.
I guess it was valve float that caused the lifters to break but I only ever revved it to 6000rpm. Power seemed to drop off very suddenly around then so it wasn't worth revving any higher.
I did email Comp about the lifters but I never got a reply.

[fy469rtse]

Don't be afraid of the hydraulic lifters.
just be careful on selection from where and what type, most modern cars are set up this way, and that's how they get around the loss of zinc in oil nowadays, setup and done right , less maintenance than a solid roller to adjust,