Running HOT

[gsniegow]

Apologies in advance for asking what may seem like a redundant question.  I have used the search feature quite extensively but I want to provide my data points and hope someone can steer me in the right direction.

Car:  '69 Charger w/ 383   I have had a top end kit installed along with headers recently.  26" 3 core Champion radiator installed last year.  Mechanical fan.  No shroud (yet, as the stupid Champion radiator bent the mounting brackets inward so I can't find one that fits, so need to find someone to help me fabricate something.)   

On Thursday I took my car out headed for a car show.  I haven't really driven the car much since taking possession from the shop the week of July 4.  After maybe 20 minutes of driving my temperature gauge was hitting the 230 - 240 mark.  I pulled over and let her cool down.  Then turned around and managed to make it home.  Unsure if the gauge was reading wrong or if I was actually running hot I went and picked up an IR gun.

Last night I took the radiator cap off, started the car, and observed what was happening.
1 - While "cool" (sub 170) it did not look as if the water was flowing at all.  Should it appear to the eye to be flowing?
2 - Temperatures climbed rather quickly, no movement in water (from the eyes perspective)
3 - I was measuring the water temperature with the IR gun.  It climbed into the 220's which was close to the reading on my gauge.  Even at that temperature the water never seemed to flow.  Water levels rose and even spilled over some but never did it seem to flow.

My guess here is either the water pump or the thermostat, or both.  However...
4 - If the thermostat never opened, I would think that the radiator temps would not have climbed, would they?  I would think that the water would just circulate in the engine and the radiator would be cooler.
5 - If the pump was not working, my assumption is the water would still heat up.

I replaced the water pump last year with one that the guy t Napa suggested last year.  It was really inexpensive, around $25 - $30 if I recall.  My guess is it's either not the right one for my car, or perhaps it's just a slow moving one?  In my searches I have read some people suggest to go with a high flowing pump and yet others that claim if the water moves too fast it's also not good.

I guess at this point I do believe that the pump is my issue.  I am thinking if I am going to replace the pump, I might as well replace the thermostat.  I did that last year as well but no clue on what the Napa guy sold me.

SO....
6 - Is my theory plausible?  If so, what water pump would you recommend?
7 - I was considering a 180 thermostat.  Your thoughts?
8 - If I am waaaay off, please enlighten me!

Thanks again for your help!

~Gene

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

One of he first things I would check given that the water pump and radiator are new is the engine timing. If the timing is off they can run hot. Since the radiator was getting hot I would think, as you did, that the thermostat is opening. It might also be something like a lower radiator hose that is collapsing. Is yours new and does it have a coil spring inside?

[Dino]

What Pete said!

After checking all that, replace the pump with a Milodon high flow or a stock pump and yes 180 stat is fine.  No flow in the rad is probably normal though.  I don't think I can see flow in mine yet I never get's all that hot.

[gsniegow]

I installed new hoses last year.  They are the stainless steel ones, so no spring was installed.

I had the car dyno tuned the week of July 4th.  I'm not sure of the timing, but my assumption is the tuner had set it properly.

Interesting...  Several of the over heating threads I read when searching this before posting stated I should be able to see the water flow.  Now I am even more confused!  LOL

[Dino]

I do think it should flow, but I don't believe it's easy to see.  I'll try with mine tomorrow when it's a bit cooler and will let you know.  I'm running a 3 core rad out of a '71 c body without a shroud btw.

[gsniegow]

Thanks man, much appreciated.  I recall when I was younger (looong ago) that my old car had heating issues and I watched the coolant flow with the radiator cap off.  I was certainly able to see it flow.  Not a mad rush of water, but like a garden hose running type of flow.

[firefighter3931]

Until the stat opens there will be minimal water movement....but once it opens and you blip the throttle it should flow like a river 

Pull the thermostat and drop it in a pot of boiling water with a meat thermometer. Make sure it opens fully at the rated temperature.


Ron

[ottawamerc]

Hello did you replace the pump housing with one of those aluminum units? Sounds like Rons issue a bit that he posted in the stickys

Scott

[gsniegow]

Until the stat opens there will be minimal water movement....but once it opens and you blip the throttle it should flow like a river 

Pull the thermostat and drop it in a pot of boiling water with a meat thermometer. Make sure it opens fully at the rated temperature.

OK, I think I will try that first before tearing into the water pump.  That's the easiest and cheapest fix too, so why not try that first.   

I did hit the throttle last night a bit and there was no change in movement (or lack of).

Oh, and no, I used the existing stock water pump housing.  I will review the sticky and see what it says. 

Thanks again all! 

[ottawamerc]

I just ran my car with the rad cap off and it sat quiet till it hit the running temp then it looked like Ron's garden hose running and it was at idle. Hope that helps

Scott

[gsniegow]

Thanks Scott!  I will drain some coolant this weekend and test the thermostat.  Actually, they are cheap enough I might just go get a new one, test it, and then install it.  Hopefully my problem is as simple as that.  I know my builder obviously had to take all that apart when he did my top end installation, it's quite possible that something may have happened there as this only started after I picked up the car a couple weeks back. 

[Brightyellow69rtse]

Pick up a high flow one if you can. I always check them even when new. I had anew one that would not open once.

[MSRacing89]

It's inlikely your water pump just failed on you.  My guess would be stuck T-stat and do me a favor and check your timing.  Makes a big difference.  Too much retard can put a lot of heat in these things.