426 VS Ford 427 & 429 in Nascar

[Kern Dog]

I recently read "Supercars, the story of the Dodge Charger Daytona and the Plymouth Superbird by Frank Moriarty. Interesting book, but it neglected to cover a topic that I thought I heard elsewhere.
It seems that I heard somewhere that during the years in NASCAR when the 426 HEMI was used, we were limited to a single 4 barrel carb while the Fords were allowed to run dual 4 setups. Does anyone know the facts on this? Thanks, Greg.

[pettybird]

not in the aero era, but when did they nix multiple carbs?

[Aero426]

The answers will all be in early issues of Stock Car Racing magazine.     I have not gone back in detail, but I believe the Ford 427 was given two 4 bbl carbs in April of '66 against the Hemi with single 4 bbl.     They also got help in the form of the Tunnelport heads no later than Riverside in January of '67.       In April of '68, the Hemi was allowed two carbs along with the Fords.   For 1969 all engines were limited to one single 4 bbl.  The Boss 429 eliminated any performance deficiency that Ford might have had. 

When the Dominator carb came out, the Boss 429 ran it without restrictor rings in the base plate.   The Hemi made its best numbers with restrictor rings in place.    This is not to be confused with the later restrictor plates.     But the rings cut a couple hundred CFM out of the carb for the Hemi.    Mr. odcis2 can explain it better and with the actual numbers. 

[Aero426]

If you are interested in how things developed in the 1960's,  I would recommend this book.   You can buy a used copy for one cent on Amazon right now.  

http://www.amazon.com/The-Anatomy-Development-Stock-Car/dp/0879388005/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369319377&sr=8-1&keywords=anatomy+and+development+of+the+stock+car

[pettybird]

I bought the 1 cent copy...now you have to spend EIGHT CENTS muhahahahahahahahahahaha

Is the author that the Ford-guy-who-knows-everything John Craft?  I mean that as a compliment, by the way.

[Aero426]

I bought the 1 cent copy...now you have to spend EIGHT CENTS muhahahahahahahahahahaha

Is the author that the Ford-guy-who-knows-everything John Craft?  I mean that as a compliment, by the way.

Craft would bleed Ford blue if you cut him.     John is very opinionated on certain matters, but he knows his sheeite.

[pettybird]

John could say:

"The welds go right to left, with a slight uptick and stutter.  That was Joe Primo the welder for HM, and he was slightly hung over meaning it was a Tuesday."

...and he'd be right about it.  That guy's kind of scary.

[odcics2]

When the Dominator carb came out, the Boss 429 ran it without restrictor rings in the base plate.   The Hemi made its best numbers with restrictor rings in place.    This is not to be confused with the later restrictor plates.     But the rings cut a couple hundred CFM out of the carb for the Hemi.    Mr. odcis2 can explain it better and with the actual numbers. 

The rings cut the flow down to 950cfm.  Through testing on the dyno and the track, Chrysler determined the original Dominator flow rate was too much for the 426.  They were losing the mid range torque, and the extra available flow made no more HP.   The 1150 Dominator was originally developed by Holley in conjunction with Ford for the Boss 429. Being a current, state of the art design, as opposed to the 1963 designed hemi, it could use all the cfm.   As we know, the Boss 429 made a terrible street engine - the ports were sized for top end horse power.    It's too bad they never down sized the intake runners, made them in quantity, stuffed them in Torinos and Cyclones and unleashed them on the public, like Chrysler did with the hemi.

It would have been cool to see who the King of the Street would have been...    (Let's not forget the 454, either!!)

[Mike DC]

Another vote for this book.  It's about as exhaustive as you could possibly ask for. 

The book is old so the data doesn't go into the present. 
But it covers from about 1950-1990, which is most of the interesting stuff IMHO.   It was mostly minor tweaking between 1990 and the COT.

[Cooter]

When the Dominator carb came out, the Boss 429 ran it without restrictor rings in the base plate.   The Hemi made its best numbers with restrictor rings in place.    This is not to be confused with the later restrictor plates.     But the rings cut a couple hundred CFM out of the carb for the Hemi.    Mr. odcis2 can explain it better and with the actual numbers.  

The rings cut the flow down to 950cfm.  Through testing on the dyno and the track, Chrysler determined the original Dominator flow rate was too much for the 426.  They were losing the mid range torque, and the extra available flow made no more HP.   The 1150 Dominator was originally developed by Holley in conjunction with Ford for the Boss 429. Being a current, state of the art design, as opposed to the 1963 designed hemi, it could use all the cfm.   As we know, the Boss 429 made a terrible street engine - the ports were sized for top end horse power.    It's too bad they never down sized the intake runners, made them in quantity, stuffed them in Torinos and Cyclones and unleashed them on the public, like Chrysler did with the hemi.

It would have been cool to see who the King of the Street would have been...    (Let's not forget the 454, either!!)

This is why back then, the Ever popular 'Boss' 302 was revved to the stratusphere in order to get it making big power. Same reasoning behind the 454 "oval port' engine running better on the street than the ever popular 'rect. port' version built in same manner. HUGE ports are GREAT if you have the HUGE cubes, but if not, then you better stick to port Velosity.

[70moparman]

THE 426 WAXED THEM ALL!!!!  Chevy and Fords couldnt keep up with Chrysler, and the babys had to outlaw the Hemi becuase it dominated!!! 

[pettybird]

THE 426 WAXED THEM ALL!!!!  Chevy and Fords couldnt keep up with Chrysler, and the babys had to outlaw the Hemi becuase it dominated!!! 

This conversation is about 4 years past that, in 1968-1969

[Dans 68]

Another vote for this book.  It's about as exhaustive as you could possibly ask for. 

The book is old so the data doesn't go into the present. 
But it covers from about 1950-1990, which is most of the interesting stuff IMHO.   It was mostly minor tweaking between 1990 and the COT.

I just bought a used copy from Amazon, but it is now $5.00 (but free shipping  ). But from what I've read here still a bargain. A little light reading for my upcoming Mediterranean cruise....   

Dan

[mauve66]

Another vote for this book.  It's about as exhaustive as you could possibly ask for. 

The book is old so the data doesn't go into the present. 
But it covers from about 1950-1990, which is most of the interesting stuff IMHO.   It was mostly minor tweaking between 1990 and the COT.

I just bought a used copy from Amazon, but it is now $5.00 (but free shipping  ). But from what I've read here still a bargain. A little light reading for my upcoming Mediterranean cruise....   

Dan

need someone to carry your bags??

[Dans 68]

Another vote for this book.  It's about as exhaustive as you could possibly ask for. 

The book is old so the data doesn't go into the present. 
But it covers from about 1950-1990, which is most of the interesting stuff IMHO.   It was mostly minor tweaking between 1990 and the COT.

I just bought a used copy from Amazon, but it is now $5.00 (but free shipping  ). But from what I've read here still a bargain. A little light reading for my upcoming Mediterranean cruise....   

Dan

need someone to carry your bags??

"That" is why you have kids....

Dan

[mauve66]

Another vote for this book.  It's about as exhaustive as you could possibly ask for. 

The book is old so the data doesn't go into the present. 
But it covers from about 1950-1990, which is most of the interesting stuff IMHO.   It was mostly minor tweaking between 1990 and the COT.

I just bought a used copy from Amazon, but it is now $5.00 (but free shipping  ). But from what I've read here still a bargain. A little light reading for my upcoming Mediterranean cruise....   

Dan

need someone to carry your bags??

"That" is why you have kids....

Dan

a vacation WITHOUT kids is AWESUM, i just came back from one, i can get your drinks for you.................