Ford Ecoboost issues??

[Steve P.]

Dodge trucks were loaded with slant 6's and ran around the clock. Why shouldn't a new technology engine be able to do the same.


You guys do know we have been to the MOON, RIGHT?? 

[skip68]

    
You're right Steve.    I will say I think the engineers at Ford know a lot more than we do and are more updated with the cutting edge of technology than us.   

[Steve P.]

Yes, but at the same time they need to be listening to us and not TELLING us what we want. I LOVE my truck, but HATE my mileage.. The all in cost of gas keeps me from doing much at all these days..

They flooded the market a few years back with V-10s. Yes they will pull a house down, but we don't ALL need to pull down a house every day..  The idea of the ECOBOOST is that you can get pretty good, (in comparison), mileage on an everyday basis and still have the power on demand to pull your big block B-Body on a 3000 pound trailer when needed. Be it once a week or one a month you can tow and when not towing get good mileage..

If you are buying for a business and it involves towing all the time or a lot of weight in the bed all the time I would go another route. That is just common sense. And if you don't have it, your salesman should or he won't have happy customers for long.

For people like me, this truck makes great sense.

[Cooter]

Dodge trucks were loaded with slant 6's and ran around the clock. Why shouldn't a new technology engine be able to do the same.


You guys do know we have been to the MOON, RIGHT??  

Ok, so your saying we need an ecoboost engine that is along the same lines as the orginal, Couldn't get out of it's own way, weak as rainwater, Slant 6 engine? Today???With people DEMANDING 60 MPG, 600 HP, Able to tow 40K lbs WHILE plowing 10 Ft. of snow??? REALLY? You would be laughed right out of business. Period. Who cares if it gets 20 MPG and will run forever.
You know full and well if they put out a GOOD product, they won't ever sell another one. it's all about the Benji's....Keep a 'So-So' Product out there, and people will come back when it breaks in the first 5 years. Sell something like the orginal Subaru's and they won't sell another one for at least 25-30 years. Gotta make that money. The only time it becomes a 'Tragedy' is when they do not make a full year before having durability issues. Ford did a 'Torture test' Of these engines by first running it for something like 50K miles towing 20K lbs. or something, then pulled the engine out, put it in anoither truck/car and went another 100K miles. Then, pulled the engine and stuck it in some kinda desert racing truck for another 100 miles. Then, pulled the engine down for inspection and all tolerances were dead nuts on. HOWEVER, they did supposedly basically the same thing with the 6.0 Diesels. Wonder why it takes REAL WOLRD driver's to find the flaws?? Wonder why putting 300 Miles on an engine in a torture test over a 4 month period back to back can deliver great results, but put that kinda miles on one over say 25 year period and the results are different entirely? Wonder why that EGR/head gasket thingy with the 6.0 liter didn't show up in the torture tests?

Wonder why this issue that Ford has now seemed to "recall" over, didn't show up in any of those "Torture tests"?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/05/15/ford-ecoboost-lawsuit-defective-recall/2161123/

"The lawsuit, so far, has just three owners who are saying that 3.5-L V6 EcoBoost engine "contained serious latent design, manufacturing, or assembly defects," according to an Autoweek.com story. Essentially, the complaint is that these defects cause the truck to go into limp mode (a rather scary driving event).

Now we have covered this issue before, the issue resides in humidity building up in the charge air cooler. This build up leads to the water getting to the engine which triggers safety sensors that puts the engine in "safe" (or limp) mode. The story we hear is that the part is actually performing "too well" and it is cooling the hot humid air too quickly causing condensation to build up.

Ford has developed a replacement part and is fixing vehicles on a as needed basis. The haven't issued any recall yet nor have they directly notified owners of the issue (as far as we know).

Here is the truth as we see it. The lawsuit is garbage in that the design doesn't have any latent design, manufacturing or assembly defects. Frankly, the problem is simply the design works too well. The place where we take exception is in the communication of the problem. Ford SHOULD have come right out and said, we know there is a problem, here is the fix and please have it fixed for free. They could have easily notified the NHTSA about the issue, gathered a list of owners and mailed a letterTHAT is the piece that the lawsuit should address.

Now, we could very well see this lawsuit grow and become a class action suit. It is interesting that all three of the owners are in Ohio (why not Florida, Alabama, Georgia, etc...). They could easily find more owners having this issue by searching forums and auto registration data.

The facts are that we live in a world with immediate information sharing, video and social media. Automakers, as a whole, have to know that if one owner experiences an issue the rest will know within a short matter of time. They need to be pro-active on the public relations end of things and not re-active."



You guys do realize we have been to the moon right???


I do believe this engine is a Gov. mandated thing just like the Navistar Diesel tragedy. More from less. Sometimes, you win, sometimes, YOU LOSE and lose BIG.
If they ever get it lined out, I think it will be a good set up in something small, but history has proven time and again, that the bigger set up will do work alot more easily than the smaller set up. Simple physics.

[ws23rt]

                " The bigger set up will do work alot more easily than the smaller set up"
  Tis the way of nature.  The ecoboost could pull a 100 car coal train. but for how long and how fast?

[skip68]

It's capable but not intended for heavy duty commercial use.   It's for the average Joe as a daily driver that pulls a boat on the weekend or a trailer now and then.     If you tow a lot this wouldn't be the truck for you.    That's my impression.   

[redmist]

Skip is right on!!

I have a 2013.

I tow a Jeep to Moab Utah twice a year and that's it. I traded a 2001 ford 7.3 diesel for this truck, and it's my daily driver. it destroys the old 7.3 in every category to include towing.

the added benefit is it gets the same milage as the little V-8's, but it has a bunch more power than the little V-8's. Plus that sweet sound of twin turbo's is nice also. 

I have just over 12,000 miles on mine in just under 6 months. My average mileage is 17.2 MPG which is .2 over what the sticker said it would get. truck hauls ass also! No problems here, turbo replacements are dirt cheep for a turbo, so I am not worried about it.

Great truck, Great engine.

[1970Moparmann]

Skip is right on!!

I have a 2013.

I tow a Jeep to Moab Utah twice a year and that's it. I traded a 2001 ford 7.3 diesel for this truck, and it's my daily driver. it destroys the old 7.3 in every category to include towing.

the added benefit is it gets the same milage as the little V-8's, but it has a bunch more power than the little V-8's. Plus that sweet sound of twin turbo's is nice also. 

I have just over 12,000 miles on mine in just under 6 months. My average mileage is 17.2 MPG which is .2 over what the sticker said it would get. truck hauls ass also! No problems here, turbo replacements are dirt cheep for a turbo, so I am not worried about it.

Great truck, Great engine.

Before it was buy a truck to tow, and drive the big rig as a daily.  Now it's drive a daily to tow.

[Steve P.]

Cooter, you obviously are under the impression that we NEED 300 FT TQ to get into our driveways. Maybe you do, but the entire World does not.

I thought I read somewhere that you work in a dealership. Maybe it was someone else, but if it were you I would believe you would know and understand that every dealer tries to cover every use and when they have too much of something they will push it on people that really don't need it.. Well, I am under the impression that being a car enthusiast type site we would all be smart enough to know what our NEEDS are in a vehicle. IE: I have an F-250 Super Crew with a V-10. It is a very comfortable truck and is capable of doing WAY MORE than I will ever ask it of again. Now for me,,,, I am FUSED. My lower back does not bend. So I cannot get in and out of most of today's cars. They are too low to the ground and have a lower roofline than our old cars and most trucks. To take that a step further, the roofline of the newer Dodge/Ram trucks make it a bit hard for me to get in and out of even with the seat all the way down.

Now I don't live in the SNOW BELT anymore. So I don't have a need to plow snow and with my back I would never attempt it again. I rarely tow anymore, yet I still have a utility and single car hauler. So I am in the same boat as REDMIST. He gave you his personal view of his truck and has 12,000 miles on it in 6 months. AND he is getting better than 17 MPG. I get 11.

Now I would rather be driving an 05' or newer DODGE with a Cummins and automatic. I LOVE the MEGA CAG and have the family to fill it. I know a few that own them and get better MPG than the Ecoboost and for sure can tow much, much more. The problem is my wife cannot stand the smell of diesel exhaust. I can't say I am much for it either and we live where there are way too many lights. Also diesel is more expensive, not as easy to find and I am nowhere near as comfortable in the Dodge cab.. Also Dodge trucks in Florida better spend the bulk of their lives with the dash in the shade. You cannot find a dodge truck in the bone yard to replace the disaster most are calling a dash now. I think that has changed in the newer trucks, but ya know, with all of the cracked and holy dashes that are driving around Florida, DODGE NEVER RECALLED A DAMN ONE OF THEM!!!!!

Every maker has their own issues. Mopar has had plenty. How about the 318 hydrolocking due to bad head gaskets? NO RECALL and that had no LIMP MODE. That had "TOW ME" mode only. How many thousands of mopar customers paid for that out of pocket... There are thousands and thousands of these Ecoboost engines out there and so far I have heard of 3 complaints. 2 of which are in the same house. So for what I know about these trucks from reading and talking to people who own them I have to think that Ford hit this one out of the park.

One more thing. Back when trucks came out with weaker engines they still got the job done. Matter of fact this falls under the rule of THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. I use to PLOW with a 67' International with full time 4WD. No synchro's and no power anything. Steering was with a bus wheel and was about 30 turns lock to lock. Under the hood was a very small 4-cylinder. I plowed 3 repair shops and my driveway with that little animal and used it to push cars into my shop for 4-5 years years round. And that was in Rochester, NY. Right off Lake Ontario. Dead center of the snow belt. 

[JB400]

I say it's too early to really judge the Ecoboost engines fairly.  Those that have them will love them or hate them.  Those that have had turbo engines before will do the same.  Personally, I'll just have some and wait a few years.  I doubt that there are many ecoboost engines out there with 20k on the odometer.

[Steve P.]

They have been out since 2010 and I have had at least 3 people tell me this is not their first. I'm sure many will be on EBAY with all of the lease vehicles out there and if you know anyone who deals cars, maybe go to an auction with them to see how many have very high mileage. Around here the avg. yearly mileage is 15,000. That would put a 4 year old ECO at around 60, k for my area.. I can tell you there are thousands of them in my area alone....

Also take a look at rental car places. They also love these trucks around here...

[Troy]

I say it's too early to really judge the Ecoboost engines fairly.  Those that have them will love them or hate them.  Those that have had turbo engines before will do the same.  Personally, I'll just have some and wait a few years.  I doubt that there are many ecoboost engines out there with 20k on the odometer.

What??? Seriously, I average about 24k miles per year on my daily driver and the Ecoboost trucks have been out for 4 years (cars even longer). Around here, there are a lot of small business that haul trailers cross country and those guys put 60-80k+ miles on theirs each year. Look around, there a lots of examples of 100k+ F150s out there.

As for longevity, let me add a small bit of information. When I was first looking at swapping in a 5.9 into one of my old Mopars I ran across something very interesting: people were tearing into these motors with 100k+ and finding almost no cylinder wear. Some still had visible cross-hatching. How? Why? Magic? What they found was that the fuel injection systems are so precise that no extra fuel was making it to the cylinder. In a carbureted engine it's nearly impossible to tune a perfect fuel curve and, in general, it's better to err on the "rich" side. All that extra fuel washes down the cylinder walls - taking the oil with it. Startup is particularly harsh. So, the end result is better fuel economy AND a big increase in the lifetime of the engine.

If you could get an engine to run at peak efficiency 100% of the time don't you think it would last longer? Everyone who has been around cars knows (or should know) that a vehicle only uses a very small percentage of it's power to maintain speed on a highway (where many people spend a large percentage of their driving time). This is the basis for MDS and other cylinder manipulation technologies. Drive a V* in town and it magically turns into a 4 cylinder on the highway. Installing "power adders" like superchargers and turbos is a great compromise (provided you don't ever "go lean") because you only get the power when asked for but, under normal driving, you get the benefits of the original engine configuration. The limiting factor to making a perfect blend has always been technology - it just didn't exist. With the smaller, faster processors, better sensors, and faster/better defined communications busses the technology has been able to catch up.

Not to mention advances in oil performance, fluid dynamics research/prediction, and manufacturing processes...

Troy

[ACUDANUT]

Don't tell Cooter this. He would rather have another Subaru.

[JB400]

Sorry for my ignorance on mileage.   Being 4 years in production for the trucks, does allow enough time for someone to log a bunch of miles.  But still, 4 years of real world testing is still a little early in my book to say this engine is a great engine.  I take the 2.7 Chrysler for example.  It came out in 98.  It took about 4-5 years before problems with this engine to really come to surface.  Being that this engine flooded the market early on, the problems with the 2.7 are well known.

As for the Ecoboost F 150, yes there are early models, but they vehicles were trickled in instead of dumped on the market like the 2.7.  I personally only know of around a half dozen trucks with this engine in them in my neck of the woods.  I still say it's too early to judge these engines as far as reliability fairly.  I think it'd take another 3-4 years for more people to acquire these and put them into full service use to make a fair comparison to the other engines.

Care to have some popcorn while we wait?

[Cooter]

Cooter, you obviously are under the impression that we NEED 300 FT TQ to get into our driveways. Maybe you do, but the entire World does not.

I thought I read somewhere that you work in a dealership. Have worked, will never again. One gets complacent in a dealer working on th same damn thing over and over and over. Plus, i had a hard time with going in for 45 Hours/week and getting paid for 25 on Commission/flat rate. usually get stuck warranty problems. Do you have any idea what the pay is for diagnosis under warranty for electrical problems? "0". Yep. And people have to gall to complain.
Maybe it was someone else, but if it were you I would believe you would know and understand that every dealer tries to cover every use and when they have too much of something they will push it on people that really don't need it.. Well, I am under the impression that being a car enthusiast type site we would all be smart enough to know what our NEEDS are in a vehicle. IE: I have an F-250 Super Crew with a V-10. It is a very comfortable truck and is capable of doing WAY MORE than I will ever ask it of again. Now for me,,,, I am FUSED. My lower back does not bend. So I cannot get in and out of most of today's cars. They are too low to the ground and have a lower roofline than our old cars and most trucks. To take that a step further, the roofline of the newer Dodge/Ram trucks make it a bit hard for me to get in and out of even with the seat all the way down.Well, if every Eco-boost was sold to YOU, then there would be no problems with them no would there? Howeve, in the real world, they are sold to People who are DEMANDING more and more from smaller engines. DEMANDING if your gonna put it out there that you have a V6 engine that will make 400 HP, well guess what Steve, not everybody is just gonna take that at face value and NOT HOOK THEM TO EACH OTHER AND SEE WHO CAN PULL who backwards. Yes, I cannot stand that barbarric practice, but alas, if your gonna put it out there......

Now I don't live in the SNOW BELT anymore. So I don't have a need to plow snow and with my back I would never attempt it again. I rarely tow anymore, yet I still have a utility and single car hauler. So I am in the same boat as REDMIST. He gave you his personal view of his truck and has 12,000 miles on it in 6 months. AND he is getting better than 17 MPG. I get 11. Again, if every Eco-boost was sold to YOU, or those Like YOU, there wouldnt' be any problems.

Now I would rather be driving an 05' or newer DODGE with a Cummins and automatic. I LOVE the MEGA CAG and have the family to fill it. I know a few that own them and get better MPG than the Ecoboost and for sure can tow much, much more. The problem is my wife cannot stand the smell of diesel exhaust. I can't say I am much for it either and we live where there are way too many lights. Also diesel is more expensive, not as easy to find and I am nowhere near as comfortable in the Dodge cab.. Also Dodge trucks in Florida better spend the bulk of their lives with the dash in the shade. You cannot find a dodge truck in the bone yard to replace the disaster most are calling a dash now. I think that has changed in the newer trucks, but ya know, with all of the cracked and holy dashes that are driving around Florida, DODGE NEVER RECALLED A DAMN ONE OF THEM!!!!! Again, why is it if they fit into YOUR ctieria, everybody MUST not offer the "cons" to anything?

Every maker has their own issues. Mopar has had plenty. How about the 318 hydrolocking due to bad head gaskets? NO RECALL and that had no LIMP MODE. That had "TOW ME" mode only. How many thousands of mopar customers paid for that out of pocket...I know of one who didn't becasue I was repairing them. Myself. There are thousands and thousands of these Ecoboost engines out there and so far I have heard of 3 complaints. 2 of which are in the same house. So for what I know about these trucks from reading and talking to people who own them I have to think that Ford hit this one out of the park.As far as YOUR concerned. What will you say when these 3 complaints say turn into 30K complaints??? Still a good engine/Idea? Just like those who touted the 3Valve Ford V8 engine. until they were staring at a $700.00 Tune up bill. Now, thet engine is going down due to possibly 3 owners who began a class action suit against Ford to do something bout that 3 valve, TWO PIECE spark plug issue. Now, the aftermarket as well as Ford Offers a ONE PIECE plug. Wonder why these weren't installed from the factory???

One more thing. Back when trucks came out with weaker engines they still got the job done. Matter of fact this falls under the rule of THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. I use to PLOW with a 67' International with full time 4WD. No synchro's and no power anything. Steering was with a bus wheel and was about 30 turns lock to lock. Under the hood was a very small 4-cylinder. I plowed 3 repair shops and my driveway with that little animal and used it to push cars into my shop for 4-5 years years round. And that was in Rochester, NY. Right off Lake Ontario. Dead center of the snow belt. This, while true, it still doesn't hold any water due to the fact that when these "Right tool for the job" came out  Fuel was what? $1.00/gal??? Who cared if it got 8 MPG while running WOT to tow that 10K lbs. Today however, it would seem that once the cat is out the bag on 30 MPG while towing, there are those out there, Believe it or not, that DEMAND this type of performance, and THESE are the ones Ford is counting on for sales. NOT, some guy who doesn't care,need all that "extra" stuff. As far as the Eco-boost goes, by your own admission, you don't really count for much in the eyes of the buying public becasue the way it sounds you would be perfectly happy getting 6 MPG as long s it lasted. Well, my friend, those days are long gone, never to return. All I am saying is if your gonna put out an engine that says it can do it, then Why are we seeing these problems???

[Steve P.]

Ok Cooter. You MUST be right.

[73rallye440magnum]

I spoke with a guy last weekend with 120k miles on his and gets 20 mpg. I've never heard anything bad about them.

[skip68]

It's capable but not intended for heavy duty commercial use.   It's for the average Joe as a daily driver that pulls a boat on the weekend or a trailer now and then.        That's my impression.   

Well said skip.   Hit the nail on the head.   

[Fred]

It's capable but not intended for heavy duty commercial use.   It's for the average Joe as a daily driver that pulls a boat on the weekend or a trailer now and then.        That's my impression.   

Well said skip.   Hit the nail on the head.   

Did you give yourself a pat on the back? 

[Cooter]

Ok Cooter. You MUST be right.

Not nessesarily 'right', but far from saying you are wrong simply based on your opinion....

[Steve P.]

Cooter, trying to have this discussion with you is ridiculous. You have copied and pasted everything I have said and then in red, twist what I say. I am not going to go round and round with you if you cannot read what I am saying or understand it. So without any more headache I am done.

[ACUDANUT]

He just loves to argue.

[Cooter]

He just loves to argue.

Wow guy, You and Steve make a GREAT Team. You should start your own Club. BTW: F-U

[odcics2]

Breaking News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130527/AUTO0102/305270307/U-S-investigates-400-000-Ford-F-150-trucks-engine-problems?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

[1970Moparmann]

Breaking News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130527/AUTO0102/305270307/U-S-investigates-400-000-Ford-F-150-trucks-engine-problems?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

95 reports on 400,000 units sold.  Will be interesting to see what comes out of it.