making a hemi out of your wedge

[RD]

found this link in my favorites.  good info for those who are interested in such a crossover.  very indepth.

http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/mopar/bigblock/0506em_hemi/

[Telvis]

What's the estimated cost on something like that?

[Jon Smith]

I think it costs as much as a real hemi, it was more popular before crate motors and aftermarket hemi stuff was readily availiable

[694spdRT]

When I bought my '69 back in 1990 the previous owner had planned to do this conversion. He ended up selling the car instead. At that time it was the only real alternative to an original Hemi.

As mentioned previously the crate engines, although not cheap, have made availability much easier. 

[6pkrunner]

Yeah - Stage V engineering were a godsend when the 440s were plentiful and the aftermarket was full of hemi heads. Stage V converted their top fuel head to match the 440 bolt pattern. They were doing this in the early '90s when there were no crate motors from Ma.
One of the Mopar mags did an article on the buildup in 1990 and they used a 1969 GTX as a test mule. A 4.15 stroker crank, stage V heads and accessories and a reworked 2x4 inline intake and headers. With 3.91 gearing they claimed to drive it to the track in regular traffic and cut a series of 11.20s and then drove home.
The price was quite prohibitive then. A well built 440 would be miles cheaper.

[Troy]

When we discussed this on the old site it seemed that the price would be in the neighborhood of $5,000-5,500. After looking at the cost if intakes recently you may have to add another $1,500-3,000 depending on what you want to run. It's cheaper to just buy a Hemi (or piece one together).

Troy

[Old Moparz]

I still have literature & photos from Stage V & always wanted to do the head conversion. I still think if you already have a 440 block you can do this for less than a crate Hemi, but I never priced all the parts to compare. A lot have said you can build a 440 cheaper, & just as fast as a Hemi, but there is that WOW! factor of having the spark plugs up top & fender to fender valve covers.

On the same note of converting blocks, I wish the small block conversion was less costly. There's more of these blocks in bone yards than you'd ever use & it would be pretty cool to start converting them to Hemis. I recall the price of the conversion a couple of years ago was about $6000 or so. Not sure if it's come down any, but I'd still rather have the big block.

Small Block Hemi Conversion Website:

http://www.rodandcustommachines.com/smallblockhemiheads.html


Just saw this on the site:

"Projected selling price $8,500.00 - We are working on new Roller Cams and Intakes"

If I were spending $8500, I'd save a few more buck & go with a crate Hemi.

[chargervert]

If I remember correctly,there was a lot of machining,and work that had to be done to the lifter valley area to attach the stage V heads to the block,its not just a simple bolt on operation. It did seem like the way to go before Mopar Performance realeased the Hemi blocks!

[6pkrunner]

Not a lot of machining in the lifter area. The tops of the block have to be machined for pushrod clearance and the biggest item is tapping the back of the block for the routing of the external oil lines. The Stage V heads oil feed holes and the 440 block are completely different so the backside of the cam oil feed galery is tapped into to supply the slippery stuff.

[chargervert]

I may be mistaken 6PAK,but I thought They had tabs,that went in on the top of the block to recieve the the inboard head bolts(the ones near the intake manifold) I seem to remember them drilling,and taping the block to recieve these tabs.

[Troy]

I still think if you already have a 440 block you can do this for less than a crate Hemi, but I never priced all the parts to compare.

Just wondering, but why does everyone always point out the cost of buying a crate hemi when this subject comes up? If you buy these heads you have to modify, machine, and build the engine any way so we should be comparing what it costs to build a Hemi. Otherwise you have to subtract the time (finding a good block, cleaning, disassembly, and assembly), machine shop bills, and the cost of the original 440 from the cost of the Hemi crate motor. Don't forget the cost of all the finish items to pull off the "look". When you finish with a converted 440 the only thing that's Hemi is the top.

A lot have said you can build a 440 cheaper, & just as fast as a Hemi, but there is that WOW! factor of having the spark plugs up top & fender to fender valve covers.

And I personally don't care who's faster on the street or I'd be driving a bullet bike with NOS.

Troy

[Mike DC]

Yeah, I agree.  Everyone talks about the lump-sum cost of the $10-15K Hemi, but you don't hear much about the fact that more and people are spending $4-7K on their "cheap" 440s and still doing a lot of labor.

The 440 conversions are basically dead now that MP is selling Hemi blocks & heads again.  They work fine but you might as well just spend $2K more and get the actual Hemi block.

And I've never understood the smallblock Hemis.  Sounds fun but there's no market for it.  Nobody is gonna pay for a BB Hemi to get a SB one.  Unless you could somehow price them at $2-4K it's never gonna sell.

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I think DCX oughtta be finding a way to put modern Hemis into our hands a little cheaper. 

If they could get a lot more hot-rodders running those things they would be setting the groundwork for years of parts-sales.  (Because we don't have 40 years' worth of aftermarket support & used components in junkyards for those yet.)  And they'd be diverting interest into the modern Hemi cars & trucks too.

.

[Troy]

Mike, what do you think the price should be before people start going for the modern Hemis? If you don't actually buy one from Mopar (ie. take out or leftover stock) then I don't think the prices are all that crazy. I just haven't found a car to put one in yet...

Troy

[6pkrunner]

I may be mistaken 6PAK,but I thought They had tabs,that went in on the top of the block to recieve the the inboard head bolts(the ones near the intake manifold) I seem to remember them drilling,and taping the block to recieve these tabs.

The Stage V heads for the 440 block have those head bolts right in the intake tract. Stage V supplies special bolts that are in there. They have to be tightened with a wrench through the intake port. Stage V claims that there is no turbulance caused by this as the intake floor sees little flow compared to the rest of the port.  The hemi style bolt pattern with the 4 bolts in he lifter galley is done away with an the 440 pattern followed.

[dkn1997]

this whole thread makes me wonder if you could even get a set if you wanted to?  i have heard from others that they don't return phone calls or emails and have concentrated on other products.

[Mike DC]

Mike, what do you think the price should be before people start going for the modern Hemis? If you don't actually buy one from Mopar (ie. take out or leftover stock) then I don't think the prices are all that crazy. I just haven't found a car to put one in yet...

Aren't those motors still overpriced?  I thought they were like $5K even for salvaged ones.  Maybe I'm outta touch with the current price situation.

.

[Troy]

Mike, what do you think the price should be before people start going for the modern Hemis? If you don't actually buy one from Mopar (ie. take out or leftover stock) then I don't think the prices are all that crazy. I just haven't found a car to put one in yet...

Aren't those motors still overpriced? I thought they were like $5K even for salvaged ones. Maybe I'm outta touch with the current price situation.

.

There's a take-out motor on Moparts for $2900 I think and I was just checking some others out in that range last week. Just like anything else that says "Mopar" on it you have to look around a lot for the good deals but patient people with cash in hand can do all right.

Troy

[Mike DC]

Holy crap!  THey were expensive a couple of years ago, but I had no idea they were that cheap now. 

I was thinking a modern Hemi was still more than half of ten grand by the time you did the small stuff.

.

[TeeWJay426]

The Stage V engineering website hasn't been updated since 2001. I tend to think that they are not even around anymore; the introduction of the crate Hemis from Ma pretty much would have put them out of business. Haven't seen or heard anything about them recently- they used to be a Carlisle staple in the 90's, but haven't had a booth there that I recall for several years now.

[Old Moparz]

Just wondering, but why does everyone always point out the cost of buying a crate hemi when this subject comes up? If you buy these heads you have to modify, machine, and build the engine any way so we should be comparing what it costs to build a Hemi. Otherwise you have to subtract the time (finding a good block, cleaning, disassembly, and assembly), machine shop bills, and the cost of the original 440 from the cost of the Hemi crate motor. Don't forget the cost of all the finish items to pull off the "look". When you finish with a converted 440 the only thing that's Hemi is the top.

Well, my point was based on already having a 440 that was in excellent shape. I personally pulled it from a running '73 New Yorker that drove daily until the frame got bent. I paid $225 for the car, drove it for months, pulled the drive train & scrapped the rest. At the time, the Stage V heads were about $3000 compared to the cost of an original, used Hemi that went for $5000, which still needed to be rebuilt. I understand that the 440 will need additional machine work & drive up the price, but being $2000 ahead, I can't possibly imagine the cost to make it work would be that much.

Fast forward to today with the new crate Hemi available, & the price difference is even more dramatic. The cheapest Hemi seems to be no less than $10,000 & from what I am hearing & reading all over, still needs to be taken apart & checked out which can't be done for free. Maybe some people can do that, but I don't have any machine shop experience & won't attempt it. Even if the Stage V heads are still available & at a higher price than back in the 90's, It will still be a safe bet that machine work & modifications will be way less than the difference in cost.

Of course if Stage V is out of business, then we're discussing a topic like politics.