Anyone have a Hi stall converter and HATE it?

[Kern Dog]

I'm curious about how you feel about your torque converter.
I'm getting tired of the slippy feeling I get from mine. When I installed it in 2006, I thought that I might want to drag race the car. Since then I have reverted to my past and renewed my interests in cornering and higher speed driving. Who knows, I may race it in a Silver State type run some day.
The stats: 440 based 493 mill, 10.8 squeeze. '509 cam, 2" TTI headers, Edelbrock heads and 850 carb. The 727 has a 9 3/4" converter rated at 3000 stall. 3.91 gears and a 27 1/2" tire. From a standing start, I can fry the tires halfway through 2nd gear. The motor flash stalls to 2800-3000 rpms. In reality, I have no complaints about the full throttle, straight line performance. It is the part throttle performance that sucks. If I want to ease away from a stop, the motor needs to spool up. The trans slips in a manner similar to easing off of the clutch in a stiff clutched 4 speed car. While driving at freeway speeds, it also feels lazy when I try to speed up. Sure, it responds when I floor it, but part throttle feels too lazy for me.

I think that the answer is a larger, tighter converter. I really like how responsive my 2007 Ram feels right from idle. My BILs 72 Duster 360/904 also responds right off of idle. In both cases, you pull your foot from the brake and press the gas pedal and they just move! I know this much: A stock cammed engine makes kits power from idle to say..4000 rpms. A higher performance engine has its power band higher up in the rpm scale. The HP mill benefits from a higher stall rating because the engine can skip past the low power, low rpm point right into the sweet spot. What if you're running nearly 500 cubic inches and are producing well over 500 lb/ft of torque? Do you NEED to spool up to 3000 rpms before the converter tightens up? I had an 11" converter in the car before slipping in the 9 3/4" unit. The car did feel tighter then. Its a bit of an apples to oranges thing though, because back then I also had the cam advanced 4 degrees. I should have kept that converter.

[b5blue]

  Part of your issue is the 509 cam, I had one in my car when I bought it and it's a top end RPM bump stick.  I did lower my stall from the cars drag race only setup and it helped but ultimately changed it out during a rebuild. 
 

[Cooter]

I've found that many of the "Pro street" guys today are running later model trannies with the lock-up feature. Therefore, they can run that 4500 Stall on the track and still make to cruise night without cooking fluid.
Sure the engine will perform great on the track, but on the street it's another thing entirely. Comparing your older car to your newer truck is not recommended. that truck has all kinds of trick sh*t to make you feel the way you do about it. Try that stuff with your older car and you'll be opening up pandora's box. Shift solenoids, high stall converter with lock-up, lower gears in tranny, lower rearend gear, more foward gears in trans, etc.


I tried to run a 4500 On the street in a C4 in a mustang one time. 25 Miles and my fluid looked like used engine oil. Had TWO coolers on it too.

No way it can be done without some kind of lock-up feature. Been there and Hated that. Plus, with a high stall, there's no way to run an OD without lock-up either. You'd definately cook the fluid then.

[Chryco Psycho]

I simply hate the lack of control with Auto trans cars , you shift down or try & the trans decide you have to much speed to allow it , you want the converter to slip when you get on it but then it slips all the time . I just buy car with std transmissions , a clutch will do anything you want . But yes I hate the overall lack of control with auto

[Brass]

For my application, Ron recommended the 11" HD hemi converter from Turbo Action that stalls between 2800-3000 depending on torque.  I F'ing love it.  It's nice and tight around town and flashes really good when I stomp on it.   The car spends a lot of time on the freeway spinning under the stall and I've never had any problem with it.  The B&M cooler seems to do a very good job.  ::knock on wood::

[BlaineKaiser450]

I've got a 2800-3000 rpm stall in my Plymouth with a built 440 and 3.73 gears, and it's somewhat irritating just driving around, in hindsight I'd probably put a 2000 stall in it now, but it is what it is, I can live with it. By the way, Red 70 I live in Granite Bay too, Folsom Lake Estates actually, I've seen your Charger around here and there

[firefighter3931]

For my application, Ron recommended the 11" HD hemi converter from Turbo Action that stalls between 2800-3000 depending on torque.  I F'ing love it.  It's nice and tight around town and flashes really good when I stomp on it.   The car spends a lot of time on the freeway spinning under the stall and I've never had any problem with it.  The B&M cooler seems to do a very good job.  ::knock on wood::

Buying a quality converter allows you to have your cake and eat it too. 

I ran a 4500 stall Dynamic 9.5in with the old 446 and it was very efficient a low engine speeds. You couldn't tell that there was a high stall unit in the car it behaved so well....until you mashed it, of course ! 

Converters are one part of the build that you shouldn't skimp on....you get what you pay for. 


Ron

[Kern Dog]

11" HD hemi converter from Turbo Action that stalls between 2800-3000 depending on torque. It's nice and tight around town and flashes really good when I stomp on it.

What was the cost of yours?
I spent $450 for mine 6 years ago. I went with a local builder in Sacramento.

[Cooter]

Buying a quality converter allows you to have your cake and eat it too. 

I ran a 4500 stall Dynamic 9.5in with the old 446 and it was very efficient a low engine speeds. You couldn't tell that there was a high stall unit in the car it behaved so well....until you mashed it, of course ! 

Converters are one part of the build that you shouldn't skimp on....you get what you pay for. 


Ron

Ron not really sure what you mean buy getting what you paid for cause that 4500 I bought for that PA C4 costs me around $950 and it burnt fluid like nobody's business. This was around 15 years ago, but still. One would think a $1K dollar converter should/would drive on the street. Nope.....

[firefighter3931]

Ron not really sure what you mean buy getting what you paid for cause that 4500 I bought for that PA C4 costs me around $950 and it burnt fluid like nobody's business. This was around 15 years ago, but still. One would think a $1K dollar converter should/would drive on the street. Nope.....

Cooter ; There's really no comparison between a 15yr old converter vs what's being currently offered. Technology has evolved exponentially in that time frame. 

Yes there are still some expensive junk converters out there but the really good companies have a handle on tech and can make a nice dual purpose unit that works in all conditions. Of course the quality stuff costs more than the generic off the shelf piece. The Dynamic 9.5in street/strip converter works extremely well and costs ~ $650. The Turbo Action 11in Hemi converter works well and is more modestly priced ~ $450. The stall ratings are different so you need to match the converter to the engine's powerband....nothing new there    Both Turbo Action & Dynamic have a good handle on Mopar Tq converters and produce an efficient unit that delivers the goods. 

Here's a good story to illustrate my point : My latest converter came from a specialty shop based on a recommendation. I had the converter built with all the bells and whistles, steel stator, anti balooning plates, spragless etc....When i went to install it on the trans the converter wouldn't fully seat.  I sent it back because when it was originally assembled the stator support splines were too tall. He supposedly fixed it and i re-installed the converter but the performance was waaay off. I chased everything looking for problems ; fuel delivery, ignition,transmission and even went as far as leakdown/compression tests thinking that somehow i'd hurt the engine. 

I decided to pull it apart again and have the converter looked at as a last resort and sure enough the problem was discovered. The stator support splines had been cut down too short and now the stator was just freewheeling inside the housing. Basicly, the converter in that configuration was just acting as a fluid coupler and not a torque multiplier....UGGGGGH  So my custom built $1000 unit needed another $600 in parts/labor to be right. There were a few upgrades installed while it was at UCC so it should work very nicely and be quite reliable once it's all back together.

Expensive lesson learned ; go with a company that knows what it's doing because you really do get what you pay for. I'm living proof ! 


Ron

[RECHRGD]

When I was doing a cam/head upgrade to my car Ron recommended the Turbo Action 10" "tight" converter.  It flashes around 3300RPM with my set up and feels almost like a stock unit on the street.  It never overheats and works just fine on the highway with my Gear Vendors 3.55/2.76 combination....

[Cooter]

Wow, Converters musta come a long way since my Mustang days then. This is why pretty much all my cars today are straight gear cars. Was kinda hesitant about dropping another wad on a converter that cooked fluid.

Thanks Ron.

[Challenger340]

Stall Convertors are like everything else it seems, in that you GET, what you PAY for.

Convertors make "Stall" by slippage or Vortex Flow internally for Torque Multiplication, when output shaft speed in Zero or no "Axial" Flow within the Convertor.
Max Stall = 100% Vortex Flow...0% Axial Flow.

As output shaft speed increases, Vortex Flow decreases and Axial Flow within the Convertor increases transferring more and more power to the wheels.
until,
the Convertor reachs it's maximum efficiency design...usually determined by how "Tight" the blades are built internally.
GOOD stall Convertors can reach 5% Vortex Flow with 95% Axial Flow.

The above explained....
It is easy to see how "Cheap" stall convertors can be identified.
Quickest way to determine an incorrectly built Convertor for an application, that still has too much Vortex Flow(stall) and feels "mushy", is to time your Car at the Dragstrip, then take the mph achieved at the traps, and compare it to your engine rpm, divided by the tire and gear ratio. If you are NOT within 92% to 95%, your Convertor is probably too loose.

Back to the subject at hand
Cheap Convertors, are much easier to build by simply taking a stock unit and making them looser
And far too often, all a Customer pays attention to..... is how HIGH  the Convertor stalls, then thinking "YEP, it's a 3500 stall", and never pays any attention later to the "mushy" feel, or the MPH at the track to realize he got raped.
Conversely,
a GOOD Convertor, built properly, will give it's prescribed maximum stall, but be fairly tight once rear wheel speed(output) comes up, so that normal driving feels basically "normal".

Back in the day...
that was why the Turbo Action HEMI "J" Convertors were dominant in the SS ranks, the J cut stator that was full veined on the outside so that as centrifugal force pushed more oil outward during rpm they could transfer that Elephant power more efficiently = BIG mph's !

I am NOT a fan of TCI Convertors.....just a wild guess on the brand here.

[Kern Dog]

The consensus seems to be that the best converters are able to work well in all driving conditions. I guess I might as well pull this one out and have the converter guys work their magic on it. If they can juggle a few parts to make it more streetable, it surely should cost less than the $500 and up that I see others have paid for theirs.

[Supercharged Riot]

I simply hate the lack of control with Auto trans cars , you shift down or try & the trans decide you have to much speed to allow it , you want the converter to slip when you get on it but then it slips all the time . I just buy car with std transmissions , a clutch will do anything you want . But yes I hate the overall lack of control with auto

Agreed. Get an A833 transmission and call it a day.
No more fuss about the auto tranny
Stick shift will do whatever you want it to do because you have control over it. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

When my car was an auto I ran an old school "hemi" converter. Behind my 383 it flashed right at 3000 rpm but cruised like a stocker otherwise. Since swapping to a 4 speed I have never looked back though.

[Kern Dog]

I'm not much of a fan of manual transmissions. I had an 833 in my FrankenDuster. It was fun when I wanted to shift, but I didn't always WANT to shift. Sometimes I just liked to cruise.

[Fred]

I've got an auto transmission and I'm more than happy with it. Manuals for me are a thing of the past.

[BSB67]

I've got an auto transmission and I'm more than happy with it. Manuals for me are a thing of the past.

I'd be hard pressed to ever by another hp car with an auto.

[mauve66]

hey Ron,
was wondering if i ended up with a bandaid fix or was it a good old-school idea.  i realize that convertor tech is way ahead than it was in 1994, just wondering.

in 1994 after building my 383/auto/3.23 gear/ '69 roadrunner cam/6pak carbs, a local mopar guy talked me into using a smaller 340 convertor (after i changed the input shaft to 67later style and the thingy on the back of the motor-different # of bolts?? that the convertor bolts to)
i also used a TranzGo shift kit with full 1st gear capability/5.0 lever

this was by no means a big motor but was my 1st non-stock motor, later i changed the cam to a purple shaft, .474 hemi grind, and it really woke the motor up but i liked either way, still had the 14 inch tires on it also, i think it cruised at around 3500RPM at 65-70 but its been a LOOONG time

i don't know if i've ever felt the "slipping" others talk about.

is using smaller stock V8 convertors still a viable alternative for those of use that are stretching the budget??

thanks for your insight

[SRT-440]

I got a 4K stall on my plymouth and was wondering (maybe a stupid question)...can a high stall "cushion" shifts? RD built me a great 727 with the hemi lever and a Transgo shift kit and the thing shifts like a Cadillac...u can't even feel the shifts. Is the convertor responsable for this or what? 

[Cooter]

Yes, with a stock converter, you will expecrience those "Bang Screech" shifts with a stock converter. Once a high stall converter is installed, the shifts have to be at extremely high RPM's to "chirp" the tires if at all.

With a high stall converter it is slipping when working properly. A "tighter" converter won't have as much "slip" between shifts.

[SRT-440]

Thanks! That explains it.

My GN has a 3500 stall and it still chirps second hard even with wide wheels and tires...so..I suppose 4000+ is where it really starts to "slip" pretty good.